I found myself a long range spot to shoot my 300RUM. But I don't have a mil dot scope. But would like to use target knobs for my elevation and windage adjustments. The scope I use is a 4.5-14X40mm Leupold Vari X III. When you guys move your elevation or windage on these scopes, do any of you have any trouble when you bring it back to zero. Would this be a good scope to use in longer range shooting?

That is an EXCELLENT scope (want to trade?) ! Leupolds, especially Vari X III's have a pretty good reputation for accuracy in the adjustments and repeatability. I've never had a problem with mine.

Clicking the scope is the only way to go for long range shooting. Once you try it, you won't go back.

The best way is to have target turrets installed in your scope. I can't remember the info off the top of my head but could look it up for you if you like.

The only problem with that is you are commiting that scope to that type of use. I didn't do it because I don't think my rifle would fit in my saddle scabbard with target turrets on the scope and even if it did I don't think I'd like it.

I did the next best thing and got some Stoney Point Target Knobs. These will screw right onto your scope in place of the original covers and can be removed/installed in a few seconds. Of course they aren't as good as real target knobs but they do the job just fine (especially just for plinking).

The next thing that's nice to have is a trajectory program that will give your bullet path in MOA. I use the Sierra Infinity and it works well.

Most of all, enjoy! It's a lot of fun.

BC,
I have a 3.5-10x40 and it works well, yours should be nice too. Leopold will instal target turrets on them or you can get some Stoney Point knobs as Jon said. When you click up and come back down it will be spot on.

Ask these guys over here too, alot of knowledgeable guys are very helpfull there.

Long Range Hunting

9.75moa to zero at 600 yards with factory 180 Sciroccos in my 300 Ultra.

Well, there are a couple of options that come to mind here.

First, you can certainly send your 4.5 X 14 back to Leupold and have them install target knobs. I just had a 2.5 X 8 pistol scope that I use for IHMSA competition fitted with knobs and they work great. The cost, including return shipping is $85. The total turn around time for my scope was 13 days.

I have mounted the scope and tested the knobs and they work just fine. They have .25 MOA click adjustments and I like them.

I guess the only negative of the knobs is the size of the darned things for hunting uses. For target or varmint shooting they are just the thing. I own several Leupold scopes with knobs that I use for varminting and silhouette competition and find them quite usefull.

The Stoney Point knobs are OK, but I have found that they some times slip and have found that for really long range shooting they do not have enough adjustment. When raising the elevation on a Leupold scope the adjustment dial is raising up in its housing. As you get to really long range this dial hits the inside of the Stoney Point and you run out of elevation before the scope has reached its maximum potential.

Another option, albeit expensive, would be to purchase a 6.5 X 20 Leupold with the knobs already on it. I own some of these scopes that are the EFR models and highly recommend them. I think they are more solidly constructed than the standard models.

I really like the 4.5 X 14 scopes ( I have 4 of them) but for really long range I guess I would prefer a little more power.

R F

I like them. I have four scopes, on three rifles with them. I only use both windage and elevation knobs on my long range target rifle. For my hunting rifles, I just use the elevation knob. Like somebody said, used with a ballistics program and a good range finder, shots to 500 yds., and beyond, are much easier.
You still need to test, practice, and learn to call the wind.
I, too, have gone through the Mil-Dot phase. My only objection to using a Mil-Dot is it disappears readily in low light. You must be sure of the size of the target you are ranging off of as well. E

I use an old Vari X II 3 to 9 on my 30-06, and have a chart made out to 600 yards. That scope is pretty repeatable, even though it uses the old friction type turrets. I've been impressed by it, and was considering trying the Stoney Point knobs, but am reconsidering in view of R Flowers' post. It isn't really much trouble to remove the cap and make the turn with a coin.

If you want the most repeatable scope on the market, get a Weaver Grand Slam in the 4.5 to 14 or 6.5 to 20 power range. I use a 6.5 to 20 on my Savage 10FP and it's absolutely stunning how reapeatable the turret adjustments are. They are the best in the business, bar none.

Take care, and good luck with the long range stuff. It's an obsession!

Dan Newberry
green 788

As has already been mentioned, the 4.5-14x Leupold is a fantastic choice. Especially if you plan on using the rifle for hunting also. Using a 6.5-20x scope is also a good choice, however, for most hunting situations it gets in the way.

I have a 4.5-14x Tactical, a 6.5-20x EFR Target, a Mark 4-M3 10x Leupold with Mil-dot, and a 36x Benchrest which all have target knobs. I have had great success with return to zero and plotting. Generally, for target shooting, the use of target knobs is desireable. For hunting and quick shooting scenerios, you can't beat the mil-dot system. (However, it does take some time to acquaint yourself with the principal enough to make quick shot decisions.)

Personally, if you want to quarantee yourself success with your scope, don't take anything less than a Leupold. And, before settling on a scope, compare the ballistic charts for the cartridge you are going to shoot at the ranges you plan to shoot. You really want to make sure you have enough travel in your sight adjustments. It shouldn't be a problem with a .300 RUM, however, a .30-30 could be...

Well, I think this will fit the bill. The 4.5-14X50mm that is. Went to the range and played around at 100 yards moving up 7MOA and over and left and right. Groups seem to go back to zero ok. I might have to do some adjustment however. I don't have much adjustment for elevation, about 7MOA but have alot of adjustment for negitive elevation. Do you guys shim the bases in this case or maybe lap the rings? What would be best in this case. I know they say the adjustment gets less accurate at the limits of the scope. So I want all the dynamic range I can get in an accurate setting. Thanks, BC

You definately need to re-mount that scope in one of the ways that has been suggested if you want to shoot really far. It's odd you only have 7 MOA adjustment....

And I hope I didn't give the wrong impression about using ballistics software--of course you need to actually shoot at these distances to veryify/adjust the numbers. But it's a lot more fun when you're at least "on paper" your first try. It's hard to do that when you're guessing.

Thanks guys. Thats just was I was wondering. This is just for fun. I have always wanted to do this, and really got tired of 200 yard ranges. As far as a bullistics package, a friend sent me an excel worksheet that someone made. It seems very accurate. I checked it out with a few more online bullistic calculators. Actually, now that I think of it, I got it off riccardos pages www.stevespages.com I think. I figured I would have to play around with it cause from playing around with the excel sheet, I notice sight height to be extremely important and 0.1" throws it off far at long distances.

I think if you want full upward mobility of your scopes adjustment, you would have to shim the rear of the scope lower than the front of the scope. It was mentioned the other way around.

Or, am I turned around?

BTW -- what is the total MOA adjustment in your scope? (From top to bottom)

Never mind my first part of the post. It just hit me in the head, I am turned around. The front of the scope would need to be shimmed lower.

[ 12-14-2002, 03:09: Message edited by: Gunnerdog ]

The Burris ZEE rings with the inserts are working great on my Ruger 416wby, I got the extra .020" insert set for a total of 40 MOA elevation on it.

A Ken Farrell 20 MOA tapered long range base in Siclair is $38.00 and I hear they are very nice from lots of guys too.

What is the total range of adjustment on that scpope?

Ok, guys for this scope, I measured the max adjustments. 84MOA adjustment for both windage and elevation. Now my question is how much of that adjustment is useful for long range shooting. Or is every scope unique. I am going remount my scope using the rings you suggested and trying to figure out the best way to do it.

With my 26" barreled 300Super(30-8mmRemmag),zeroed at 250yds with my bulk practice load(165gr Core-lokts at 3350fps),it takes but 24MOA from that zero to reach the 1000yd line. That with a fairly sedate load with a lower rung BC.............

[ 12-22-2002, 07:19: Message edited by: Big Stick ]

No Hot Core, I am not looking for shooting tips, I will have to work that one out on my own. What I am asking out of that 84MOA adjustment range, how much of it is useful. Alot of long range shooters emailed me and said on most scopes, when you get to the edge of adjustment, the MOA adjustment isn't accurate anymore. In other words, it won't lower or raise your elevations a true MOA. What I am asking is generally, people who have used this type of scope where does it become inaccurate. Here is what I am trying to do Hot Core, I am now in the process of centering my scope using the burris rings and inserts so I get the most dynamic range of use.

On my bullistics program, it says with my 300RUM sighted in at 250yards, I will need 28MOA adjustment up to 1000 yards. I might not ever shoot that far, but would like to set the gun up to get the most dynamic range.

My preference is to be zeroed at the bottom third or so,of a scope's available elevation adjustment.

While it sounds cozy to have the reticle centered within it's adjustment range,for your predetermined zero,it equates to tossing away a goodly amount of available inclination. However,I do strive to center my windage,to it's mechanical center.

In that manner,all adjustment made,will easily be within the "heart" of the mechanism. Then you simply need to stretch her out and see if it repeats in a reliable manner,though I'm certain it will easily do that................

bigcountry: What I am asking out of that 84MOA adjustment range, how much of it is useful.

It really depends on the scope. Even scopes from the exact same production run can vary a bit.

bigcountry: What I am asking is generally, people who have used this type of scope where does it become inaccurate.

I don't know that I(or anyone) can give you a totally accurate answer to that question. However, I think I can give you a place to start that will make sense to you. bigcountry: On my bullistics program, it says with my 300RUM sighted in at 250yards, I will need 28MOA adjustment up to 1000 yards. I might not ever shoot that far, but would like to set the gun up to get the most dynamic range.

Use the fartherest distance you intend to shoot - 1000yds. Start with the belief your Ballistics Program (for the Load you told it) is accurate, but be prepared to adjust this a bit later on.

Make sure the reticle is "centered" in the scope then crank it down 14MOA. Mount it on the rifle and do the most adjusting that you can with the Eccentric Inserts to get your shots hitting POA at 100yds.

Once you have it as close as you can get with the Inserts, then see how many MOA you need to adjust it by using the scope adjustments. You may decide it would work better to start with the scope 12MOA or 16MOA down rather than the original 14MOA.

If 14MOA does work out within reason, then you will be using the "closest to center" of the reticle movement over your entire 28MOA range of change for the 1000yds.

Now, you are using the central portion of the adjustment range. Does that make sense?

Bigcountry,

What bullet are you shooting? It must have a pretty low BC to take that much elevation to get to 1000.

You'll quickly find out high BC bullets rule at long range.

Yea, right now, I have some decent accurate A-Frame loads built up. Low BC, but accurate. I ordered some 220 Match kings. Right now I am just using what I know I can shoot subMOA now. So far, this is turning out to be a ball. I just never trusted the adjustments on my scopes. But after shooting, I turn down my knobs to zero and check, and it always seems to be on. We are shooting 400 yards right now. Next weekend, we plan to stretch it out to 600 yards. Still learning to read the wind. With these lower BC bullets, has a real affect. And it was 10mph-18mph winds this weekend. I can see this getting real addicting.

Yeah, as you know the wind is the hardest thing to compensate for and that's where the low BC's hurt you the most. You'll like those MK's.

Just curious, were you shooting 180 or 200 A-Frames?

I like to use the Stoney Point knobs on the elevation only because the windage knob is always in the way on a hunting rifle. Buy a set and use them on the elevation knobs on 2 rifles, then you can take them off if they're in the way hunting.

www.premierreticles.com located in winchester va. is the only other leupold service center. He'll install target turrets for ya, he also has good prices on LR reticles and scopes. Great folks to deal with.
RR