I am looking at getting a good all around rifle in either 270 or 30-06; we can save the debate on which caliber for another time. I want to get one rifle (all weather) and shoot it in the field a lot so I get good with it in various situations. Since I am not the kind of guy that wants a cabinet full of rifles I want to do it right the first time. I have looked at the Kimber Montana’s and they seem like fine rifles and I don’t mind spending that kind of money but don’t want to spend much more. My question: Is there a better use of $1200 when I comes to an all weather rifle with respect to accuracy, durability, reliability, etc?

Compare the Kimber Montana to a Sako Model 85 and buy the one that fits you best. Both are excellent rifles that will give you great service...................................DJ

I just got a kimber montana in 325 WSM. I am very impressed with it so far. It is very comfortable and I really like thier stock design. Its accuracy has been very good and you can't beat a rifle that finishes out at less than 7lbs with a scope. I also really like the action, kind of all the great things about a winchester M70 without the bulk. I think the kimber is probably one of the best buys out there right now. I can't wait to take it out after sheep next week.

My encounter with Kimber is: You get a good one or a bad one.. As far as I'm concerned their customer service sucks!

They obviously don't hold to the same values as their pistol division. They (pistol div) have alway's been second to none as I understand it..

In other words.. Procced with caution as far as Kimber is concerned..

The Kimber specimens I've seen were less then impressive. For a $1000+ rifle, I expect better. With a barrel channel twice the size needed, the craftsmanship certainly isn't there, and the fit & finish was second rate. So, for the money I don't think you can beat Sako.

As far as I'm concerned, I agree with Mopane. I picked up a 270 WSM Montana in March. It wouldn't shoot worth crap from the get-go. 3" or more groups with factory ammo. The stock was touching the the barrel - sent it back & Kimber replaced the stock and I had it back within a week. Fast service, I have to admit. Shot it again and groups were down to around 2" - maybe. I tried both handloads & factory loads. No good.
I've fought too many mediocre rifles & don't do it anymore. It's now at the "gun doctor's" office waiting to be worked on. I had wanted this rifle to take on a sheep hunt, but...
I also have a pre-64, mod 70 in .270 Win. that is simply amazing to me. It shoots tighter groups at 200 yds. than at 100. I'm taking that instead. Never shoulda got the Kimber but I knew it would be a crap shoot & took the chance.
My advice to anyone now is to spend the money on a pre-64 Mod.70 and do some work on it if necessary. I don't screw around anymore with rifles that won't shoot. I dunno what I'll do with the Kimber when I get it back. I might use it tho. Anyway, I'm outta here for a couple of weeks. My partner & I have a date with some Dall rams up in the Brooks Range & we leave in a couple of hours. Good luck to ya all.
Bear in Fairbanks

you might consider a remington model 700 ss sps or a ruger all weather model 77. they are offered in both 30-06 and 270 and, with reasonable care, will last several lifetimes. you will also have some money left over for a quality scope. sako is a fine rifle and as you have already read, kimbers are a crap shoot. i suggest an all weather ruger in 30-06. you can hunt most anything and ammo is available everywhere. just one man's opinion - others may differ. good luck..........

Sako 85 every time..............

I know some of the Kimbers shoot but some of them definately don't. Buying one seems to be a hit & miss affair.

I had a Montana 7mm08 that did not shoot or feed properly. That rifle is now replaced with a Sako that does!

Thanks guys for all the info. Looks like I have some more brands to check out.

GrayDuck,
I've had excellent results w/ kimber, remington, Sako, Weatherby and Winchester rifles in the calibers you've mentioned.
Remington is out with their 700XCR synthetic stock and stainless barrell. If necessary have it bedded and a trigger job and you're there. Weatherby can be had in a stanless synthetic Sub-MOA Vanguard in the calibers mentioned. The Sub_moa has a guarantee of sub inch accuracy. Sako-75's are no slouch.
good luck what ever you choose.
GWB

grayduck,
I have had at least 20 Kimbers in the last 3 years. I have had mostly excellent shooters, especially the Montana version. Had some issues with the wood stocks and a couple of light firing pins not detonating the primer. I have whittled down the "herd" to a Montana .270Win and a 300WinMag Montana. Both are great shooters and I tinker a bit with my handloads.
I know that a well placed premium bullet from a .270 and 30-06 will taken care of 99% of ALL North American game except for coastal brownies and maybe Mt. Grizzlies. I am partial to the .270 due to the influence of Jack O'Connor.
I don't like the feel of the Sakos as well and don't care for the "extra safety" lever in front of the safety.
So I'd get the Kimber Montana in .270 and a Leupy 2.5-8x36 or a 3.5-10x40mm and go hunting.
Let us know what you decide.

I am a huge fan and collector of ealier Sakos but don't know much about the newer versions. I had an 84M in 7-08 that shot sub MOA and currently have a Montana in 7-08 that does the same. My vote goes for the Kimber. Lou

there is a shop over here in NZ that wont sell them said there customer service was just sh*t, and i talked to another company about them and they said their customer service was great.

i also deal with a guy who is a F-class shooter, he owns a reloading shop and he has a licence to reload and sell reloaded ammunition. he said he hasnt got many to shoot fantastic, and by that i assume half inch 5 shot groups at 100yards.
he thought they were like Weatherby MkV's, some will really shoot and others wont.

i own a kimber monatana 8400 in 300WSM and it will shoot, ive done several groups under half inch @ 100yards, and a few groups around 1.5inch at 300yards. nothing to complain about there.
it took around 200rounds for it to stop fouling bad and to pick its act up about the accuracy.

still everyday someone else says how great there sako is and how reliable they are. sakos are tried and true.

if buy a sako, for some reason i like the look of the finnlights stock...

i bought a kimber 8400 270WSM a few months ago and it to would not shoot. I tried both IMR&H4350 and H4831,RE19,RE22 it would not shoot any of these powders worth a tinkers damn so in desperation i tried AA3100 62grns which is 1 grn under max according to Noslers fifth edition,bingo it shoots five shoots from just under an 1" to 1 3/4" with 140grn sierra HPBT and 140grn Horn.SST (yes i still get fliers once in a while)

I forgot to add that there customer service not just sux it really SUX

Hmmm.. Imagine that... Out of the responses it looks to be about a 6 to 4 margin against Kimber. ZERO!! posative experiances with their customer service.. Me personaly, if I ever did "Consider" buying another Kimber. It would be one that I could test drive first.. But my experiance with their customer service just plain sour's me on their products.. Makes me wonder why they are droping their .22 line.. As I have alway's thought this line was their flagship of the company. I understand markets can change, but this might be the picture of the future for Kimber.. My thoughts are... Good Riddance.. They lived far too long on the reputation of the original Kimber of Oregon and drug that good name through the dirt..

I had a chance to handle a Sako Grey Wolf. Clearly a nice rifle. I really liked the fit and feel of the stock. Not crazy about the safety though. I don't need anything for this fall so I am sure I will overthink this for the next six months.

Remington 700 XCR in a 270. Should get you out the door much cheaper. Spend the extra money on good optics. The rifle is really hard to beat.

I don't know the details of the other peoples gripes with Kimber customer service but the occasions were me or my freinds have dealt with them it's been excellent.
One buddy had a 45 that was shooting low, he sent it in and they replaced the barrel no questions asked and no charge - the gun shoot quite well now.
Another sent a rifle in the was shooting 3/4-1" groups but for a HB 22-250 it should be better, they recrowned it and it now shoots 1/4 to 1/2 MOA.
The other experience is a buddy who bought a 8400 on the internet. He liked the stock that was sold with it but he didn't think the accuracy was what he wanted so he sent it back. It turn out that the rifle originally had a French Walnut stock and the person that sold it to my friend had swapped out the original stock for a Claro Stock (which was how it was pictured). Well anyway Kimber Service replaced the Claro stock on the rifle and replaced it with the French Walnut stock on the bottom here:




I was able to talk my buddy into trading it to me so it could match my other FW 8400. Call it what you want but replacing a Claro Stock with a French Walnut one is darn good customer service in my book!

Kimbers aren't perfect but nothing is. I've had 9 of thier centerfires and all have shot Sub-MOA to much better. I also own several Sako's. Both are fine rifles. Individual examples of both will be more accurate than individual examples of the other but In my experience of owning several of each is that both are very accurate and one isn't more likely to be more accurate than the other.....................................DJ

i'd say shop around,try and find a like new used in eather caliber...........ss sako model 75.....remington 700 xcr.....berreta's mato,the one where they used dakota''s 76 or 97 action,and a preimum barrel......last but not least......magnum/reserch''s Mountain/eagle,with its sako action and custom cut-rifled Krieger barrel...regards

My Brother is on his third and last Kimber. He says, if he buys again, he'll go elsewhere, but none are the Montana. He bought a fancy .22 5 years ago, wrong screws for the scope mounts, customer service was lousy, but the gun shot well, once the scope screws came (3 months).

Second was a .260 84 w/ beautiful wood stock. It shot about minute of coffee can. Bedding was terrible, the firing pin was not in the center of the bolt. New barrel (at the factory), new bedding, forend preassure, it finally shoots good. Took more than 6 months to get all the kinks ironed out.

Last was a .204 varmit. Shot well except when it wouldn't strike the primer hard enough to fire (even w/ multiple strikes on the same primer). Turned out the firing pin was shallow by about .025-.030.

He says they are good guns once you get'em fixed, but He doesn't see the point is spending over a grand for a gun that you have to work on so much.

quote:

Originally posted by Beartrack:
He says they are good guns once you get'em fixed, but He doesn't see the point is spending over a grand for a gun that you have to work on so much.

Of the nine I've had I only had to do any work at all to two of them. One had a slight burr on the cocking peice - I used that to negotiate a better price on the rifle and took 30 seconds to stone off. On one other I bedded the floor plate to turn it from a 1" rifle to closer to 1/2" rifle (3 shots). It typically takes far more work to get other brands of rifles (other than Sako) to work and shoot near as well as Kimbers.
Somehow I don't think that they are sending all of the good Kimbers to Oklahoma. The wood ones do vary a bit since Claro Walnut though pretty tends to move more than other flavors of Walnut. But the Montana's are usually very good indeed if you talk to people who actually own them and hunt with them. Some people have difficulty shooting such light rifles but there are lots of people who absolutely love them...................DJ

Around the net, you hear about a LOT of Kimber complaints...

If it was me, i'd be looking at one of the light weight 700 Remington models...

DM

quote:

Originally posted by DM:
Around the net, you hear about a LOT of Kimber complaints...
DM

Around the net, you hear about a LOT of complaints on just about every firearm you can care to research.

You have to balance the compliments and complaints with equal grains of salt.

On another forum one poster wrote several scathing reviews about his Kimber Montana's accuracy even though he said it consistantly shot .750 groups at 100yds. - He continually ripped Kimber because it wouldn't do it with his favorite bullet.

The positive reports generally are about 3 shot groups and not 5. If you are expecting a rifle to shoot 5 shot groups Kimber's with such light barrels propably aren't the first to look at.

Remember the uproar over the recalled Sako's last year? They were roundly castigated by many people as Sako quietly went about and fixed all the issues and went on with business. But if you only beleived what you heard on the net at the time you certainly wouldn't have a true picture of how excellent Sako firearms are.

So on an open information source like the internet you have to use judgement on everything you read good or bad - but of course you already knew that didn't you?.......................DJ

quote:

Originally posted by djpaintles:

quote:

Originally posted by DM:
Around the net, you hear about a LOT of Kimber complaints...
DM

Around the net, you hear about a LOT of complaints on just about every firearm you can care to research.

DJ

Or any car,truck,outboard motor,chainsaw, etc,etc,etc

Nice rosey glasses DJ.... You should have been on my end of the phone dealing with Kimber customer service..

DJ, let me come back to my last statement so as to not paint my remark so harshly towards you..

Obviously "you" had great experiances with your "NINE" Kimbers.. You then go on to the extreme end of complaints re: the guy who complained his Kimber wouldn't shoot his favorite bullet in less than 3/4... Nobody on this posting made such far fetched remarks..

My statement comes from my "ONE" Kimber and the HORRID customer service I had with Kimber and their manager. My blood boils to this day just thinking about it..

quote:

Originally posted by MopaneMike:
Obviously "you" had great experiances with your "NINE" Kimbers.. You then go on to the extreme end of complaints re: the guy who complained his Kimber wouldn't shoot his favorite bullet in less than 3/4... Nobody on this posting made such far fetched remarks..

You are correct in that those specific posts were on another forum. I have heard negative comments from posters on this thread that later sorted out the problems on their rifles and seem to like them much better.
My point is that you have to judge both the good and the bad and decide for yourself. Just because I've had several that were excellent doesn't mean that one you buy will be as accurate as my best one. Nor does that fact that you had a bad conversation with customer service mean that everyone else will............................................DJ

quote:

Originally posted by djpaintles:

quote:

Originally posted by MopaneMike:
Obviously "you" had great experiances with your "NINE" Kimbers.. You then go on to the extreme end of complaints re: the guy who complained his Kimber wouldn't shoot his favorite bullet in less than 3/4... Nobody on this posting made such far fetched remarks..

You are correct in that those specific posts were on another forum. I have heard negative comments from posters on this thread that later sorted out the problems on their rifles and seem to like them much better.
My point is that you have to judge both the good and the bad and decide for yourself. Just because I've had several that were excellent doesn't mean that one you buy will be as accurate as my best one. Nor does that fact that you had a bad conversation with customer service mean that everyone else will............................................DJ

I'll Drink to that...

But one fact remains.. As of this posting there are almost SEVEN HUNDRED views of this thread… How many of them are going to walk away from the purchase of a new Kimber? How many of their friends? And how many at the very least are going to have second thoughts.. Now just imagine if those posted here were a high majority of satisfied customers who even if there was a problem were treated decently??

Hi all,

I have a montana 300 wsm that I bought 2 years ago. I had the trigger set at precisely 2 pounds. Then I broke it in precisely as advised by Kimber. That took a hell of a lot of time. I mounted a leopold 2.5 x 8 BC reticle scope and worked up a load with norma brass and 168gr TSX bullets. It shoots 5 shot groups in 1/2 inch (slowly). I put 300 rounds through it after it was sighted in as well as hours of dry firing. Last year I used it exclusively and took a white tail doe, 5pt wt buck, 4pt mule deer and cow elk. (missed an easy coyote).

Because of the missed coyote I am going to sell the POS. I will never buy a Kimber again.

My Montana 270WSM was a dog accuracy wise (3"+), before and after I sent it back for them to correct the issue. They didn't and I certainly will not ever own another

Interesting, I have 2 older, used kimbers. 1 in .308 the other a 260. They both shoot so well I figured I'd never buy anything but a kimber from now on. Looks like it's stick to the older ones and try them first, although thats my policy for all brands really.

I have a Montana in 308 with about 300 down the tube.

It would not feed corectly from the left when I got it. A trip back to Kimber and that was fixed quickly. Nothing butt good to say aboout their customer service. They returned two of my calls, I didn't have to chase them for anything at all.

Accuracy is superb:

From 125 BT's to 150 Accubonds to 168 TSX's I have found a handload to go sub. I would not hesitate to buy another one. Best value for a grand going these days.

Forget the Kimber Montana...why risk $1100, get a Weatherby Ultra-Lightweight in either 270 Win or 3006. I have both a 30-06 and a 338-06 and could not be happier. They are lighter, look classier, made well, handle well and will outshoot any Montana made. They happen to be priced right too. Sako rifles are nice as well.

quote:

Originally posted by Woodrow S:
Forget the Kimber Montana...why risk $1100, get a Weatherby Ultra-Lightweight in either 270 Win or 3006. I have both a 30-06 and a 338-06 and could not be happier. They are lighter, look classier, made well, handle well and will outshoot any Montana made. They happen to be priced right too.

Well they aren't lighter at 5 3/4 lbs and 6 3/4 lbs (short and long actions per Weatherby's stats) vs 5lbs 5oz and 6lbs 9oz for the Kimber 84 and 8400 LA (per Kimber). Sorry but you are just factually incorrect here.

As to looking "Classier" that would be purely a matter of taste and mine certainly differs from your's, I prefer Classic to California style. I also find that a Classic style stock handles recoil far better than a Monte Carlo Style.

Weatherby's sometimes are made quite well but it can depend on which of the different manufacturers they've used on exactly How Well made they are. If you get one be sure and get the right height mounts - they differ between the different manufacturers of MK V's.

That they will outshoot any Montana made is basically pure BS. I'm sure that there are some Weatherby's that will outshoot some Montana's and some Montana's will outshoot some Weatherby's. I've had better luck with Kimber's accuracy - but in fairness I've had more Kimbers to judge from.

And as far as priced right? They retail for $432 MORE than a Kimber Montana does. MSRP on a Weatherby Ultralight is $1754, $1312 on a Montana 8400 LA........................DJ

I have no problem if someone prefers Weatherby's to Kimbers. But you might as well get your facts right............................DJ

My Kimber Montana in 260 Remington is a good one.
The first time it was taken to the range a target was set at 50 yards.. six shots were fired with two different loads. When we walked down to the target there were two distinct holes and one wragged one the group was 1/2 an inch. There were four shots in the one hole.
A one hundred yards three shots were fired it measured .284 of an inch.
The load was 48 grains of ADI AR 2213sc, Hornady 129 grain bullets in Remington cases and Winchester primers.
For a new rifle light rifle that aint bad.

Didn't mean to stir up a hornets nest but i appreciate the info. Since I am not in a hurry i also need to keep my eye out for a proven used rifle that fits my needs.