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One of Us |
After looking at just about everything out there and being the prior owner of a few custom 700 KS's I don't think there is anything better for the money then a Kimber Montana. It just has great features and that stock is something else. I just wished they made a long action version. Working on my ISIS strategy....FORE | ||
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The LA MT version will be available after the new year.  | |||
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Brad is that a sure thing? That would be sweet Working on my ISIS strategy....FORE | |||
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Sempre, as of now it's a sure thing. If I hear anything different I'll post it. | |||
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Best value is the Stainless Savage hands down. As accurate as the Kimber, maybe even more so, great trigger and half the price. My biggest fear is when I die my wife will sell my guns for what I told her they cost. | |||
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I'll second that. I got one of the early ones when they first came out. Accuracy is exceptional and they don't come any tougher.  | |||
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You guys might want to vote on this survey!!! ______________________________ Well, they really aren't debates... more like horse and pony shows... without the pony... just the whores. 1955, Top tax rate, 92%... unemployment, 4%. "Beware of the Free Market. There are only two ways you can make that work. Either you bring the world's standard of living up to match ours, or lower ours to meet their's. You know which way it will go." by My Great Grandfather, 1960 Protection for Monsanto is Persecution of Farmers. | |||
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I'd take a look at Ruger's S/S offerings. They may not be the most finely made rifles around, but they are hell for stout. A 30-06 or 338 with sights and a 4x Leupold would do just about anything anywhere. Okie John "The 30-06 works. Period." --Finn Aagaard | |||
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Though I doubt there will/would be anything wrong with the Montana, my vote would have to go to the KS purely out of personal experience and familiarity. The KS stock seems to fit my shooting style quite well and accuracy is rather predictable. Though I must admit the Montana is an attractive alternative. | |||
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And just so no one thinks I am biased. I bought my wife a Kimber Montanna in 7mm 08 because that is the rifle she wanted. The Savage costs less than 50% of the Kimber. And I will be the first one to agree they are not in the same leaque as far as fit, finish, smothness etc. But the Stainless Savage is still the best bang for the buck. My biggest fear is when I die my wife will sell my guns for what I told her they cost. | |||
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Ruger is the best buy on the market. I would not have a savage as a big game rifle I have 6 savages in the house and all have had feeding trouble. But it doesn't matter in a p dog town but big game hunting is another thing. | |||
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Other then comparable accuracy what does a Savage bring to the table? The bolt is not field strippable..the stock is a flexible flyer and they are not reliable feeding rifles. Working on my ISIS strategy....FORE | |||
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You'd need a tool to strip the Ruger in the field, too. I suspect that's more important for handloaders, however, as we do make mistakes more often than factories do with their loadings. (Another way to say this is "I make more mistakes than factories do, and I need field strippable bolts for my handloads...) FWIW, though I don't own a stainless M70, I have examined one. If smoothness of the bolt throw is important to you, this one's a winner. Jaywalker | |||
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You need a finish nail to field strip a Ruger bolt..The savage is a bit more complicated . FIeld strippable feature is a very valuable option for hunters as well. Working on my ISIS strategy....FORE | |||
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SempreElk, I have several of the Winchester SS Classics and I really like them. Two of them are extremely accurate and the others have at least around an inch capability. You do haft to have the triggers worked to your desired weight because they are HEAVY from the factory. I have only handloaded for 3 of them but my 300WSM shoots the Federal Fusion 165 Grain fantastic. 3 shots will all cloverleaf at 100 yards. I had myself talked into a Kimber Montanan in 7MM WSM for my Ibex hunt but I couldn't find one in that caliber so I bought the Win in 300 WSM. I know the Kimber wouldn't have shot any better and I gave $500 for the Winchester with Bases,Rings, and a Limbsaver pad installed. It was still in the box and unfired. Hawkeye47 | |||
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My Savage in 25-06 has never given me a problem feeding from the magazine. It is a blind magazine, not the new detachable type. Just curious. Has anyone notified Savage about the problem?... or has anyone had it fixed by Savage?... Did the fix work? ______________________________ Well, they really aren't debates... more like horse and pony shows... without the pony... just the whores. 1955, Top tax rate, 92%... unemployment, 4%. "Beware of the Free Market. There are only two ways you can make that work. Either you bring the world's standard of living up to match ours, or lower ours to meet their's. You know which way it will go." by My Great Grandfather, 1960 Protection for Monsanto is Persecution of Farmers. | |||
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That has been my experience with feeding as well Mike. Not very often will you have to send a Savage back to the factory but if you do, they are very attentive to their customers and turn around is usually pretty quick. It would be interesting to know what some of the posters are doing with their rifles that they would have to strip the bolt in the field. I have yet to find a need to do that in thirty some odd years of hunting and I did a lot of mine in extreme cold climates. | |||
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Very true they have fast turnaround. They had to modify the feed rails on a 300 ultramag for me that did not feed right.
I really prefer a gun I can strip down to the firing pin assembly ala Mauser,Model 70, Howa,Weatherby MKV etc. You can quickly remove excess oil,water and any gunk that got in the assembly. BTW I have also gone the Ruger M77 route as well and they are good guns but their synthetic stocks in my opinion leave a lot to be desired as well. Working on my ISIS strategy....FORE | |||
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  Oh man, Everyone needs a good laugh every now and then. Nothing against you guys but, If you think best Value is a piece of stainless steel that'll shoot groups of 2-4" w/ regularality, go ahead and buy all of them you want. I guess I'm in the crowd that just hasn't come across one that shoots straight. I've never owned one but, I've grabbed ahold of many at the range just to "see if this thing will group for you" and I'm here to tell ya they will not being taking up any space in my safe any time soon. The most consitantly accurate and low priced factory rifles I've ever seen is the Model 700s, I haven't come across one yet that wouldn't go sub MOA w/ handloads (Knock on Wood  ).Good Luck Reloader | |||
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The topic was the best bang for the buck. I could care less about field stripping a bolt as I never had to do this in 35 years of hunting. Another posted commented about 2-4in groups. I can only rely my experience and I never seen a Savage that was not a MOA shooter. I only have one Savage presently (300 win) and I admit it is hard to load the magazine but it feeds fine. There are a lot nicer rifles out there for sure, but remember the topic, "Best bang for the buck". My biggest fear is when I die my wife will sell my guns for what I told her they cost. | |||
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To get a comparable stock then whats offered on the Montana prepare to spend 400-500. Remove that from the price of a montana and your at 500 bucks..for a very well made,very accurate CRF rifle. Working on my ISIS strategy....FORE | |||
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C'mon guys. I've been handloading for almost 20 years and hunted for 30. I've never needed to field strip a bolt. Have any of you really needed to do this? and why, may I ask? MM | |||
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Unless Savage has made a Design Change to their Bolt, it is the simplest of ALL Bolts to Field Strip. 1. You remove the Bolt from the Action. 2. You grab the Bolt Body in your Left hand and simply "unscrew" the Striker assembly with your Right hand. Now you have an empty Bolt Body in your Left Hand and the Striker (with the Firing Pin Spring fully attached) in your Right Hand. Take a can of Carb Cleaner or Gun Scrubber and spray any trash, dried grease, Pine Needles, Deer Hair or Sand out of both pieces and let dry. Or you can swirl them around in a jar of Kerosene or Diesel Fuel and let dry. Using a glass jar is real nice if you "swirl" with some sense because you can see all the Trash that was in the Bolt once the fluid settles. 3. Screw them back together, reinsert the Bolt in the action and you are ready to go. The only "simpler" Bolt too disassemble would be found on a "Prison Zip Gun". --- Hey MuskegMan, I hunt in the Southeastern USA and we need to do it down here. The land has a lot of "sand" in it and when the wind picks up, the "Sand Dust"(really tiny silica sand particles) is carried into the air. They settle on anything exposed, at any angle. Then as you work the action, the Sand migrates into Bolts and Trigger Assemblies. Also the Bore if you do not have it "Taped Shut" at the muzzle. If "we" do regular cleaning and proper maintenance on our firearms(even when we don't shoot), it is Rare that we actually need to Field Strip them - in the Field. My best hunting buddy missed getting a shot off at a HUGE TROPHY Buck because he had let his maintenance lapse. He called me all concerned that his Rifle was broken. "We" had it figured out in a few minutes. Actually the Striker couldn't reach the Primer because of Sand (& Sand Dust) in his Bolt. The old Diesel Fuel in the jar trick got him back to shooting in about 5 minutes including finding the jar. He saved it to show me and the Silica sparkled in the liquid like one of those Domed Snow Toys. | |||
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By the way, I forgot to mention you will need a "Dime or a Penny" to put in the Slot to unscrew the Striker Assembly with your Right Hand. However it would have been obvious to any of you with a Savage Bolt Action close by. --- I've seen a good number of folks mention good things about the Montana rifles. Seems like they are well made, but expensive when you realize it is just a fancy M70 design. However, unlike the M70, the Kimbers seem to work without "most" of the typical M70 issues. When looking for the Best Value, I guess it depends on what a person places the most "Value" on. If it happens to be accuracy, ruggedness and at a very inexpensive cost, then I'd say Snowwolfe (and the rest of the Savage fans) are correct. A Stainless & Synthetic Savage is an outstanding value. In fact, a couple of years ago, they were right at $479 complete. Not sure what they cost now. But at that price you could have 5 S&S Savages or 2 Kimbers. Anybody happen to know the current price of a S&S Savage? | |||
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I just can't figure why so many folks have such rotten luck with Ruger and I have such good luck . My last 2 are no exception . A sporter weight stainless in .223 is an easy 3/4 MOA rifle and now a V/T model in .204 just shoots better than I can hold . The only Ruger I have been dissapointed with was a heavy barrel No. 1 and it was not horrible , just not quite up to snuff for a varmint weight gun . And I suspect if I knew more about #1 s it could have been tuned up OK . At any rate my votes for best buy would go to Ruger or Vanguard/Howa . | |||
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MuskegMan
I've needed to strip two bolts (same Ruger M77 MkII, 6.5x55) in the last year. Both were punctured primers - may or may not have been the rifle (as opposed to me, the reloader). The rifle defintely had headspace issues, and went back to Ruger. The first punctured primer completely froze the bolt, which had to be stripped and cleaned to remove vaporized primer metal from the spring and body. The second punctured primer didn't completely freeze the bolt, but it was sufficiently slugglish that I wanted to clean it. These were the only two times, and never with factory loads. It did encourage me to buy easily-strippable bolts, though. I then sold this finicky, but extremely accurate rifle (many loads shot five-shot groups under half an inch). Jaywalker | |||
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I know it's popular to bash Rugers as inaccurate, but I wonder how many hear have purchased a Ruger M77 MkII in say the past 5 years and had any accuracy problems with them? From what I've seen, they will shoot factory ammo in the 1 1/2 range, and handloads will print 1" or under. For a rugged suitably accurate and reliable all weather bolt gun, I have yet to see a better gun for the money than the M77 MkII, and they even got rid of the boat paddle stock  __________________________________________________ The AR series of rounds, ridding the world of 7mm rem mags, one gun at a time. | |||
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Should have titled this discussion "Best All Weather Rifle with a real fiberglass stock" . All the other brands brought up would be good values as well but they have tupperware stocks and I avoid them like the plague when possible. Working on my ISIS strategy....FORE | |||
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I have never owned one personally, but the Weatherby Fibermark Stainless fits this bill pretty well. They are a stainless Mark V action in a McMillan stock and are avaliable in a fairly wide range of long action calibers. My friend owns one in .300 Wby and I have seen two of them at the range recently (a .300 Wby and a .340 Wby), both of which were sub MOA accurate with factory ammo. They are not cheap (similar in price to a Kimber Montana) but they are in a top quality fiberglass stock, not a blow-molded noodle stock unfit to be an axe handle of the type found on the cheaper models made by Weatherby, Ruger, Remington, Savage etc. Also, the fit and finish on the metal was better than most factory guns I have seen recently. Chet | |||
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Actually , the new Ruger synthetic stock is fairly stiff . I don't know what the material is exactly , but in IMO it is much stiffer than the usual low end tupperware . You can also order the Vanguards with a B&C stock , and while it's no McMillin , agin IMO it's a good upgrade from the bottom of the barrel plastic . | |||
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