Came to the rude awakening that my kid will be old enough to hunt elk next year! Whoa! How'd that happen?

Anyway, I'll need to get him set up with a rifle. Who makes a good blue/wood youth rifle in 308? He's a pretty tall kid, and probably will be about 5'3" by next year. I like the idea of a model 7, though I won't buy anything with a blank-edy-blank lock on it (the kid can't remember his hiking shoes half the time, let alone a key!).

The Savage might work for him, but I'd like to look at a few more options. TIA, Dutch.

Dutch -

How about the Ruger M77 Ultra-light? or the Ruger M77 Compact? Both available in 308. I believe Winchester is still making the M70 Classic Compact chambered in 308 as well. I don't think you'll have any problem finding a 308 to suit your (his) needs. Good luck, hunt safe.

Rob

Dutch, I wouldn't worry about the lock, if you don't lock the bolt, you won't need the key, I've got 2 with the lock and never even looked at them keys let alone locked my rifles with them, Winchester makes a compact in 308 as well as my favorite the 7mm08, which will work just as well on elk as a 308, I'd take your son to the gunshop and compare the two, the Remington has a trigger that's adjustable to a lighter weight than the Winchester, but both are fine starter rifles, Jay

Dutch... if you have the time, you can trim up a full sized rifle yourself, makes for a good learning experiance too. If you like the 700, buy him a used one, there is alot of them floating around without the lock on it. Another "short" rifle is the ruger number one, they are typicaly 4 or so inches shorter then a bolt action with the same barrel length. I like the idea of the 308 or 7-08 for elk, great choices! Good luck

I know that Winchester and Ruger both make junior sized rifles.

I vote for picking up a full-sized rifle, then shortening the stock (or replacing it with a shorter one). Then, after a couple of years of eating elk steak and growing up big and strong, you can put the original "long" stock back on it and not need to buy him a new rifle. Or buy him an Encore with the youth stock now, then replace it with the full-size later. Lots of options out there.

Thanks for all the suggestions. I'm not a fan of cutting off stocks, since it doesn't move the pistol grip. Short arms come with small hands, that sort of thing. I did drop a 110 Savage in 223 into a Outers "Cadet" stock for them, and that worked out ok, other than the long action. For something he'll have to carry for miles on end, I'd prefer something a little more compact.

I have another one coming up right after this one, so the rifle will get it's use through four or five deer / elk seasons. Even so, if there is one thing that is easy to trade, it's a youth rifle in this part of the world! Thanks again, Dutch.

The Remington 700 ADL Synthetic Youth comes in .308. And although the Remington website doesn't show it, we bought one in 7mm-08 last year. The key lock went into the drawer as soon as we got the rifle, and so the J lock device isn't a problem for us.

Edited: Sorry, didn't see you wanted blue/wood. I did buy a used replacement "take off" wood stock to switch out when my son gets older.

[ 08-26-2003, 18:14: Message edited by: WYO ]

Dutch-first off it will be fun to get the young out for his first hunts-secondly take a look at the M70 Compact-it comes in 308. It's a nice lil rifle-you could replace the factory pad with a 1" one in a couple of years, and it would probably work for him a bit longer. Then just remove the 1" pad and put the old factory (about a 1/4") pad back on it for the next kids in line.

Just a thought.

"GET TO THE HILL"

Dog

Get you a model 7 FULL SIZED. Then order a cadet stock from (I think) Midway to put on the rifle until the kid grows into the full sized stock.

I second the suggestions of the Ruger Ulra Light, ( the compact is too small), or the Model 70 Compact.

If recoil might be an issue, I would recommend a 7/08 over a 308. IMHO it will every thing a 308 will do with less recoil.

No one mentioned the Browning Micro Hunter. That in 7/08 would be my first choice, and is what I am budgeting for, to be used by my left handed son. They are putting it out in a left handed model this year. Already got a used right handed one for a niece in Billings MT this year.

Winchester makes, or did make, not sure if it's still around a Model 70 push feed in .243 and .308 Win. called the Youth Ranger. Stock was a bit of a cheapie hardwood thing tha was too short for me, so I put mine into a Ramline synthetic stock. So why did I buy a kid sized rifle? I didn't. Won it is a raffle. I call it my one dollar rifle, and no, it ain't for sale.
This rifle will do anywahere from .75" to 1.25", depending on the bullet and load. With 220 gr. bullets at 2300 FPS, it will consistantly do .375"
I don't remember if the original stock had a recoil pad or not, but if not, I straogly recommend a Pachmeyr Decelerator. I also gave it a trigger job that breaks at two pounds like breaking an icicle. My pet load out of the rifle does 2610 FPS with a 165 gr. Speer hot-core. From my 18.5 inch Ruger RSI, the same load delivers 2550 FPS and has penetrated the full length of a good sized mule deer. It's one rifle I like a lot.
Paul B.

Hot Core, there must be a generation gap here.

Give me a Wood and Blued over Stainless and Synthetic any day!

My first choice is Laminate and Stainless, then Laminate and Blued, and finally Blued and Wood.

Some of us think Synthetic stocks suck, plain pure and simple. It is great on a military rifle, but I don't hunt with an M16.
I don't care if it is a MacMillan or any one of the expensive ones. They don't do much for me at all.!

Check out the tikka line of "lite" rifles. 6.5 lbs in 308 and shoot like a dream. They won't break you, either. Good luck prying it out of his hands!

Hot Core, no, I tried to go into this without hoisting my pre-conceived notions onto the poor kid.

I have synthetic stocks. One on my wife's Tikka, one of my kids 223. Don't care much for them. Mcmillans may be different, but I'm not quite ready to spend 500 bucks on just a stock for the brat, err, young'n.

As far as stainless, I have those, too, on my varmint gear. I like stainless in that application. But they are shiney, and I don't really want to go into the painting/teflon coating etc. it would require for a stalk and spot rifle.

As far as actions go, I really don't have a preference, other than I rather prefer the safety on the tang. I have had a case rupture, and that makes me appreciate good gas venting systems and safety features in general. That is the reasons I love to play and build things off the Savage action. Easy to work on, accurate, safe, and the safety is where it belongs. Great for target and varmint work. But, they don't "feel" good. They are just "tools".

I never could figure out how to bed a Ruger, with that slanted action bolt, so I will probably stay away from them. I don't like the locks, the trigger problems are a concern, and it's my money, so Rem is out. Winchester leaves me cold, emotionally, and Brownings are too shiney for woods rifles, though I like them in shotguns.

The Tikkas seem to be a good balance between value and cost. The one I have is smooth and adequately accurate (MOA), but as I said, the synthetic stock doesn't whisper "take me on the trail, all day long" when I look at it in the safe. Bedding one is an interesting adventure, but easy enough. The CZ interests me, based on the reviews I read here, and some of the 22's I have held. Again, seems to be a good value, but I've only held them.

In the end though, I guess what I really want is a rifle that "feels right", and is adequately accurate. The Tikka warrants further investigation. That leaves makes like Sako, Weatherby and Sig, which are probably a little richer than I want to spend. FWIW, Dutch.

Hot Core, if I was still in the South, or in Oregon (I'm a Duck, too!), I would have different thoughts about stainless and plastic. Here in Idaho, the only water we see comes out of the air already frozen, and elk season is definitely past the first hard frost. I've never even carried DEET (actually, I'm quite sure I down own any!). Not that I haven't messed up my share of bluings a number of other ways.

Man, now you've got me looking at that Weatherby. Do like their actions in general. Even if the safety is in the wrong place, and their barrels are too long..... LOL! Dutch.

PS, I think you are right about those Sako locks.

And, I was not kidding about forgetting his hiking boots.....

Where to start.
I have a Ruger UL 308, it would be perfect for a kid of that size and he wouldn't outgrow it, either.

The Ruger Compact is too small IMHO, especially with a kid that size.

New Sakos do have a bolt lock, but I bet some of you have seen them and not even known it. They are that unobtrusive.

The Weatherby Ultra Light is a Howa, and the last one I had was machined wrong and the scope mounts were off by at least 1/8" in height (I have pics if you don't believe it). Sent it to Weatherby and they said it was ok. Funny thing, they didn't even mount the two sets of bases I sent with it to them. Long story, many phone calls. I wasn't impressed at all, so no more W'bys.

[ 08-28-2003, 22:18: Message edited by: Bobby ]

Hot Core:

Oregon does have rain, but it does not really happen until after deer season, unless you are over on the coast or in NW Oregon. Here in the SW we have a pretty dry Deer season for the most part. However, even tho I like Blue and Wood, and don't care for synthetic stocks, I agree with the weather resistance.

That is why my stock of choice is a laminate.
Doesn't make that plastic sound in the woods. If it does not spook the game, It definitely irritates me. A laminate stock also can make a good blued or stainless barreled action attractive.

The weather can be crappy depending on which elk season you hunt and where. My main elk rifle is a Model 70 Winchester rebarreled to 338/06, and wears an after market Boyds Brown Laminate Stock also.

They are also inexpensive thru Boyd's in South Dakota. Boyds makes most of the laminated stocks for most of the major manufacturers.

The last one I bought to replace a synthetic stock on a Browning A Bolt cost me $65.00 plus shipping. This is not completed. I had to sand off the peach fuzz for an hour of so, then take a sponge applicator of Tongue Oil to it and let it dry overnight, and then Put a coat of PolyUrethane on it the next night and let it dry over night. Then had to drill holes to install the two stainless swivels for the rifle sling.
Those cost me about 75 cents apiece I think.

That rifle sure looks a lot more attractive than it did with a black synthetic stock. It is as stable in the stock as it ever was in a synthetic one. However, just like an ugly woman, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.



[ 08-29-2003, 11:00: Message edited by: seafire ]

Hey Seafire, I do prefer Laminate over regular Termite Food. As far as shooting from the Bench, I even prefer Laminate over the warmth, beauty, character and ruggedness of good old synthetic.

But, where Synthetic outclasses the field is "in the hand". I carry my rifles a good bit and just prefer the typically lighter weight of the Synthetics compared to the Laminates.

I do agree they can make a sound different from the dull thud of Klutzing into stuff with Termite Food, but the problem is in the "Klutzing" not the stock. I'd suggest that if a person is moving through the woods/swamps at a pace where they can make a noise with a Synthetic stock loud enough to scare the Game, that they are moving either at too fast a pace and not paying attention, or they simply need to practice their Stalking(sneaking).

Surely you are not wearing "jewlery" while hunting which could create a noise when bouncing against a stock.

Then I see people say, "Well, just loose a couple of pounds!"(which would be a good idea for ME), but it is still relative to what you have to carry. Lets say my rifle weighed 9# with a Laminate and 7.5# with a Synthetic. Then lets say I lost 45#s which is 5 times the total weight of the Laminate rifle. Even then when I grab for the rifle, the one wearing the Synthetic will still be 1.5# lighter to tote around. So, that argument is nonsensical.

The Boyd's stock sounds great. Glad to hear you had such good luck with it.And the price is excellent. If you can post a picture of it,do so. Are you going to put Laminates on your Lever Actions?

I've no problem at all with you or anyone else toting Laminate, Termite Food or whatever they desire, cause I'll still be toting good old plastic when I can.

As far as the "Blue" goes, I'll just say that Dutch has a lot of wisdom in:

quote:

---

Not that I haven't messed up my share of bluings a number of other ways.

---

And he doesn't have the market cornered on those "other ways".

So, best of luck to you with your B&Ls. They will do "fairly well" as long as you keep them indoors.

I know Hot Core likes his synthetics, but the cheap tupperware molded stocks just don't cut the mustard. They flex, they could be used as a drum, most cases, and you can't cut them off... I like laminates most of the time, but they do tend to be heavy. In the end, for an effective, low cost stock, it is hard to beat a simple wood job. Double seal it if you worry about warping.

Now, if you throw in the kevlar/ hand laid fiberglass stocks, I would gladly use them, if it weren't for the cost. There isn't much of a weight saving over a lightweight wood stock, though. JMO, Dutch.