Another method to work your self up to recoil and hopefully not develop bad habits is shoot the hard recoiling rifle until you are dreading or anticipating the shot, switch to a .223, .243 or 22/250 and shoot it until you make nice groups then switch back to the big gun, do this as many times as necessary until you are shooting the big gun with no flinch.

Originally posted by ar corey:
My main concern is recoil having never owned a 338 Win. Mag before. I am used to 30-06 type recoil from the rifle's I have owned in the past.

My .02 worth would be don't shoot a .338 win mag. This caliber is my single favorite, but I thinkn shooting bullets under 210 grains defeats the purpose of using this cartridge. If you want to shoot 165s or 185s go witth the 338 Federal, or just stick with your 30-06. There is nothing you'll hunt with a .30-06 except possibly grizzlies/brown bears here and Eland or bigger game in Africa where you should ever feel under-gunned with a .30-06.

Personally, 95% of the shooting I've done with my .338 over the 24 years I've been using it (shot my 1st .338 animal, a Brownie on Kodiak, in 1985) has been with 225 grain bullets, and the remainder with 250's. I'm a big fan of the 225 grain TTSX, and also the 225 grain Bear Claws or Nolser Partitions. In the 250's the only bullet I've shot if Nosler Partitions.

I think that this caliber has a comfortable recoil, I feel worse the recoil of a slight shotgun hunting 12 than caliber 338 Win Mag. I must also say that I have apart from a 375 H & H Magnum and 458 Lott (with the latter not I fired), so the 338 is the caliber of smaller rifle I (now I want to sell two revolvers - Astra 44 Magnum 6 inches and a Ruger GP 100 4 inches - and buy a more suitable for the stalking caliber).

Best regards,

Oscar.

DLS,

Very good points!

quote:

Originally posted by Snellstrom:
Another method to work your self up to recoil and hopefully not develop bad habits is shoot the hard recoiling rifle until you are dreading or anticipating the shot, switch to a .223, .243 or 22/250 and shoot it until you make nice groups then switch back to the big gun, do this as many times as necessary until you are shooting the big gun with no flinch.

How does one get to Carnegie Hall?
Practice, practice, practice.

Recoil is also cumulative. Firing many successive rounds will cause issues just as drinking too much coffee will give one the shakes, and the only way around that is practice at the range (or drinking less coffee). The discipline one needs to avoid such pitfalls can only be obtained by practicing. The time to stop is when one experiences problems, not after compounding them. Sometimes you just have to stop and clear the mind. A few rounds at the local trap club can help with recoil too, but it will do nothing for trigger squeeze and sight picture recognition.

I popped off a few rounds from my favorite 30-06 at a coyote over X-Mas vacation and missed horribly. I'll bet I sent that bullet two feet over its backside. I thought about it on the way home and it occurred to me that a crappy cheek weld was responsible for the miss. Shooting is a "perishable" skill and it take practice to remain proficient.

I absolutely hate gun ranges for rifle shooting. It is so distracting to have all the banging around you when you are trying to concentrate.
I also witness folks (over 50%) that probably fire 1 round per minute.
I am fortunate enough to have a piece of land in the country where I have built my own range and bench. I take a pretty good spell between shots and let my barrels cool back to an ambient temp and take that barrel heating variable out of the equation. Sometimes 10-15 minutes or longer if I am busy with various chores around the farm. This also helps in the "flinch" department.
If you have the time. Go to a range early in the morning when it is cool and othrrs are just drinking their coffee and take a little more time between shots; especially if you are pulling the trigger on a big banger!

quote:

Originally posted by Slowpoke Slim:
Art,

I found the exact same thing with 300 win mag vs. 338 win mag. I had a buddy with a mod 70 (like mine) in 300 win mag. We compared the recoil, each shooting ours and the others rifles, and we both came away convinced that my 338 win kicked less than his 300. This was AFTER I had the BOSS cut off of mine, and both our rifles were unbraked. Both rifles were wood stocked, new (then) "pre-64 classics", they both weighed within a half pound of each other.

Same here, tried two different 338's next to a 700 in 300wm, 338's were softer shooting hands down.

quote:

338's were softer shooting hands down.

I've never had any issues with a .338 WM in terms of recoil either, and my shoulder is somewhat sensitive to heavy recoil.
Oddly, other than a hefty 12-gauge load in a shotty, the most punishment that I've received from a long gun is from a 30-06! But this was in a fairly lightweight carbine, so (maybe) this is understandable.

All you guys talking about the heavy recoil of a 12 gauge remind me of one very salient point. None of us feel recoil as much when shooting at game. I shoot hundreds of rounds of 12 gauge duck hunting each year, and my gun is a lightweight Beretta with no recoil pad. I've probably shot more than 20,000 rounds through this gun over the years, and have never thought about the recoil....except on those times I was shooting at a cripple on the pond. Then, flinching wasn't that unusual when you had time to consider everything! You may not think you're flinching, until you fire on an empty chamber.

When I got my first 338 all I shot was 180 gr Nosler BT. I loaded them for the recoil reduction. Later, all I shot were 225 to 230gr bullets and haven't seen a real recoil difference.

quote:

None of us feel recoil as much when shooting at game.

I hadn't noticed that until you mentioned it. I agree.

It also helps when you're taking your rifle for a spin around the block to be in better shape than I am now.

After introducing my best friend to hunting the subject of his new rifle came up....Naturally he selected the 338Win.

Since I was handling the reloading I selected the 225X and decided to down load the cartridge...to 2400fps! After some load development I handed the rifle back and let him go to work.

After his first round from the rifle he announced it was nothing like he expected and was quite mild(LOL)! In the following two years he proceeded to kill several deer, an elk, and two moose (he is a natural hunter and a good student).

It wasn't until the year following that he discovered the discrepancy and requested more speed...By this time he was ready for more and we slowly increased the load through the off season until he was at full power. He killed an elk the following season and was quite surprised the Elk didn't die more dramatically than the previous one....

The moral here is killing power is not directly related to velocity and the 338Win still kills (and penetrates) extremely well at 2400fps. As a noob big bore guy recoil is NOT your friend and you would do well to follow my buddy's footsteps. Being afraid of a rifle will result in your failure to handle it.
My buddy currently shoots a 375 Ultra and a 416 Rigby BTW.

I consider the 160gr tsx an exercise in ballistic masturbation. Sure it works, but why would you take one of the greatest hunting bullets ever made and short change it?

quote:

I consider the 160gr tsx an exercise in ballistic masturbation. Sure it works, but why would you take one of the greatest hunting bullets ever made and short change it?

Outstanding! I can't think of a better way of putting it than you did.

"Ballistic masturbation". Absolutely perfect and one I will not forget!
Corey, if you cannot handle the 210 or 225 pills, then either load them down or just shoot the time tested 06. Despite what you have read and the mental masturbation of gun scribes and marketing of the wiz-bangs, the 06 is a fantastic performer.

I would guess the rationale behind these lighter bullet weights in the .338 is for those who think a lighter bullet is needed on such game as deer.
But my main worry about such a light bullet is whether it would hold together on impact and penetrate properly on such animals.

quote:

Originally posted by someoldguy:
I would guess the rationale behind these lighter bullet weights in the .338 is for those who think a lighter bullet is needed on such game as deer.
But my main worry about such a light bullet is whether it would hold together on impact and penetrate properly on such animals.

Faulty rationale, in my opinion. I've shot several 100 lb. Blacktail Deer with 225 grain bearclaws and not a single one of them complained about what those bullets did.

quote:

Faulty rationale, in my opinion. I've shot several 100 lb. Blacktail Deer with 225 grain bearclaws and not a single one of them complained about what those bullets did.

Sorry, I wasn't clear. I meant bullets of less than the normal 200 grain and up range. Like the 160 grain bullet mentioned. I don't think such lightweight bullets would be necessary for deer.
I also used ammo with 225 grain bullets when I went deer hunting with my .338 Browning because I couldn't find any 200 grainers. I wrongly thought 225 grain bullets would be too much somehow, but I found out otherwise.

Lots of talk... TTSX's are all well and good... unless they don't open.

So at what impact velocity won't they open? Seems to me that one would just keep impact over 2000 fps and not worry. 338 WM don't have a problem, even the 225 TTSX should start at 2800 or 2700 and be good for 400 yards +.

I asked Barnes about the 160TTSX for Elk out of the 338 Federal. They recommended stepping up to the 185 TSX. I asked them about the minimum velocity needed to reliably open their bullets because I've heard so many different things. Below is the response I received.

"It is different for all of the bullets depending on what they were designed for. The .338 160gr TTSX is tested down to 1800fps, and the .338 185gr TSX is tested to 1900fps. Thank you."

So if you believe the claim, the 160TTSX would expand at almost 500 yards out of the 338 Federal (not that I would ever shoot that far).

Put a muzzlebrake on it and not worry about the kick. 160 isn't taking advantage of the full potential of the .338

quote:

Originally posted by Buglemintoday:
Put a muzzlebrake on it and not worry about the kick. 160 isn't taking advantage of the full potential of the .338

A muzzlebraked 338 Win mag? sounds like joy to shoot if you don't like hearing.

Mate, I would load up a few hundred 300gn Woodleighs. I get 2500fps with 71.5gn of Reloader 22 out of a 24 inch barrel. (As this is a maximum load in my rifle, take care to work up from about 65gn of Reloader 22). Once you are used to these, the 225gn loads won't feel like they recoil much at all, and you definitely won't notice it in the field. Having said that, I have some loads for 160gn Barnes X and TSX bullets, and they do about 3320 fps out of my rifle. They are accurate and flat shooting out to 300+ yards, but don't hold much momentum past 400 yards. I worked up these loads for fallow deer, which are a fairly small animal, and which are often found in open areas where it can be a challenge to get within 300 yards, and where the flatter trajectory can help minimise error in judging distance. (a rangefinder could also nullify that error). I wouldn't plan to use them for anything bigger. I haven't actualy shot anything other than paper, one roo and one fox with them yet (both chest shots), so I can't say how they perform on deer. The fox was DRT with a 338 size entry hole and a childs fist size exit hole, The roo was the same. I haven't shot anyting bigger but I would be confident they will easily kill a Fallow deer out to 350 yards. I believe they have a valid place in the lineup of bullets availble for the 338 Win Mag, and other 338 diameter calibers, but I think you would be better off to get used to the recoil rather than load light bullets just to reduce the felt recoil you rifle develops. Just my opinion, take it or leave it.

REcoil is mainly mindset. The 338 WM is not going to hurt you, so just concentrate on the sight picture and blank out the noise. Head stiff and eye back where the sight picture becomes clear. And don't use a scope with a 3.0" eye-relief. Look for 3.5" and up.

I use the "infamous" Tikka T3 in 338WM. Very, very light. Very accurate.
My dainty wife said after shooting it (with its Limbsaver recoil pad),
'it doesn't hurt, but it jumps a little'.
Yes, it jumps a little.

Recoil is reassuring.
The rifle means business somewhere out there at 50-500 yards. The 338 is a tool to put the animal DOWN, so it's gratifying to be on the recoil side. It's part of the overall experience and it contributes to the overall enjoyment.

I shoot the 338 RUM with 250gr bullets and it doesn't bother me. I use the Accubond bullets.
Those bullets really move out fast. But I do not
recall any recoil.

quote:

Originally posted by ar corey:

Look at this picture. At 3480 fps the TTSX literally flattens into a pancake yet retains a large percentage of its weight and is still most likely going to pile completely through a moose or elk if it weighed more.

Actually, that first picture in the ballistic gellatin at 3480 is a pedal. It completely passed through the block and shed one of it's pedals.

Every caliber of rifle has bullets that are in its "sweet spot" of length and weight. For the .338 that's 225-250 grains or so. I like the 225s.

Monometal bullets change the equation a bit by providing less weight in the same length - but a little bit less is better than a lot less, IMHO. Penetration is key and, to a point, lighter monometals will maintain good penetration in big game with less bullet weight.

Still, bullets that are too light for caliber will not penetrate well on big game. Monometals don't change the laws of physics.

So I agree with others who have stated that if they wanted to shoot 160 grain bullets, the optimal caliber rifle for that would be .284 (or stretching it a bit, .308).

Mike70560
one of us


Posted 27 December 2009 08:42
Too many good choices to shoot a 160 grain bullet (308 or 7mag) or shoot 225 grain plus out of a 338 Win.

Recoil is not bad. This is all 125 pounds of my wife shooting my 338 Win with 225 grain TSX. She was an honorary entry in the Selous camp staff shooting contest (and won)

I would have to agree with Mike's posting . Now recoil can be deceptive as there are

SO MANY other factor which come into play . We all know what they are .