So I have a M-97 in a 330 Dakota that I picked up cheap. I have been playing with loads and a max snoot full of RE 19, Win 760, Re 25 ETC will push various 225 gr bullets at about 2880 maybe a schosh faster or slower. This rifle has a 25" pipe.

The other day a buddy in need sold me his Number one in .338 WM. It is a home gunsmithing project that he ran out of time and money on. The rifle is restocked in a nice piece of Turkish. But he made a bit a of disaster out of the wood to metal fit. So he sold it to me for stupid cheap.

In any case I threw some loads together for it going a grain under max I can't remeber the powder at the moment but I think it was RE 19. It has a 26" barrel and is chronoing @ 2845. I am not amused. All that extra expense and trouble for brass and I'm getting an extra 35 FPS out of the 330...

Doesn't seem right to me especially since Dakota is claiming 2900 FPS with a 250 gr bullet but not one single reloading manual that I've seen shows that to be correct.

Any of you .330 shooters out there having better results with your rifles?

surestrike,

I struggled with my custom 330 Dakota for a couple of years. Ballistics were nothing special and the brass availabe was terrible. Neck tension was all over the place and I'm not into neck turning. Jumped to the 338 Ultra Mag and got some real no hassle improvement. 3165 fps with 91 gr.R22 and a 225 Accubond.

Personally for the powder burned I think the 338WM is the best of the lot.

Mark

The Winny rocks. I'm currently w/o one, but I'm looking for a s/s M70 or M77. Great Alaska rifle on the upper power spectrum.

I shoot 225 grain bullets in my 340 Weatherby. I am still working up loads and not sure of the velocity. While I love the gun, I bought it just for fun. It is long and heavy and I prefer a lighter rifle for hunting.

I used to carry a .338 Win Mag for hunting elk in Colorado. No more. Now, my other .338 is a .338 Ruger Compact Magnum. It has a 20 inch barrel and is very light and handy. I shoot 225 grain bullets at 2600 fps and I was more than willing to trade off a little velocity for a more portable rifle. Just my two cents.

Just so you have a comparison I have a .338 Wing Mag with a 21.5" barrel.
225 grain Sierra's go 2830 fps. Load is 70.5 grains IMR 4350 ww brass cci mag primer.
I'll keep mine its in a Win M70 Super Grade.

I may be biased, but I think the 338 Win Mag is hard to beat as an all round hunting rifle that is reasonably easy to load for and plenty powerful for anything below buffalo. 2800fps with 225gn bullets is easily achievable in a 24" barrel, and most rifles in this calibre are around 71/2 to 8 lbs, easy to shoot, reasonably accurate. What more do you want or need?

Two of us built a pair of .338's, I had a WM and my friend had a RUM. With 225 grain bullets the 338wm burned a full 20 grains less powder and had the same velocity as the RUM. We both had sako actions and 27" Krieger barrels. Identical barrels, length, maker and twist. We determined that the bigger cases offer the biggest advantage with heavier bullets, like 300 grainers. For 225's stick with the WM.

I am going off memory here, but as I recall the load I was using with my .330 was 75g of H4350 with a 250 grain A frame, and I was right around 2750 if memory serves. This was the load that Ward Dobler at Dakota told me was the factory load for that bullet. You could email Dakota and verify that.

Gave me about .75 MOA out to 200, and since I was hunting Brown Bear and Moose with it, that was all the further I worked with it. Dakota 76 with a 24" barrel if I recall correctly.

Rich from Hi Tech customs told me that you can push it a bit more- he told me that his load for the 250's was around 3000. I didn't ask him his load, as I was happy where I was- He was a guide in camp, and a nicer fellow you could not meet. His comment was that the loads that were in the book were pretty anemic, he thought because its not a standardized caliber.

quote:

Personally for the powder burned I think the 338WM is the best of the lot.

I think you're right.

My favorite hunting rifle is a 20" .375H&H that pushes 270 gr bullets out the nose at about 2700 FPS. I don't think I'll be changing anytime soon. If I was going to replace it. It'd be a 22 or 24" .338 WM. These super .338's just give up to much in size and conveniences to overcome the slight real world performance gains for hunting.

And the .330 gives you NOTHING over a standard .338 WM.

The rifle has a full size magazine box so I could easily punch it out to .338 RUM. But I think I'll cut it out of the herd instead. It'll be worth more as an original .330 Dak.

No matter how you cut it, it is still very hard to beat the designs of ROY WEATHERBY with his 300 and 340 magnums. I have not seen anyone yet really get something to push the envelope, and by that I mean 300fps plus more, all things considered.

Surestrike,

For some reason you are running a bit slow in my experience.

My latest Dakota project has been a 9.3 Dakota, using RL-19 to push 250 grain North Fork bullet at close to 3200 fps. (chronographed). I would believe there is still some "meat on the bone" so to speak.

As with any recipe this one is for "my" rifle and the loads OAL, bullet preference and such are to make me happy and keep me safe. There is still room for more speed in mine but, accuracy is top notch, and pressure is not at maximum yet. Although I am reaching max. velocity for this bullet.

Doug

Rifles vary. It is as simple as that. Even rifles with "identical" barrels will vary in their performance.

All things being equal your Dakota .330 will propel the same bullet as a .338 Win at a faster velocity at the same pressure, or the same velocity at a lower pressure. However, all things are never equal. And although you can presumably measure velocity with some degree of accuracy, you have no way of measuring pressure other than by wild-ass guess, intuition, or devine inspiration, thus your estimate of pressure is always rather subjective. Until you reach the point of sticky bolt opening, enlarged case heads, and loose primer pockets, you really don't have much to go on. And even when these obvious pressure signs appear they are almost entirely dependent on the hardness of the brass, which is another virtually unknowable variable.

I've owned a number of .338's and have always been able to reach 2900 fps from a 24" barrel with a 225 grain bullet (limited to Nosler Partitions and Accubonds) within sustainable pressures, meaning pressures which allow the reuse of the brass several times with only neck sizing and with no loosened primer pockets. One factor is most likely that I've only used original surplus 4831 in these loads, but I would think that powders like RL-22 and IMR 7828 would be able to duplicate these velocities.

The .330 Dakota, .340 WBY, .338 Ultramag, and any other larger cased cartridge should be able to exceed this velocity, even if only by a small percentage. However, surveying the entire Animal Kingdom for potential targets, I can't find any reason that a higher velocity with a 225/.338 would be desirable.

quote:

However, surveying the entire Animal Kingdom for potential targets, I can't find any reason that a higher velocity with a 225/.338 would be desirable.

Agreed..

quote:

Originally posted by Rub Line:
.... We determined that the bigger cases offer the biggest advantage with heavier bullets, like 300 grainers. For 225's stick with the WM.

Yup.

Velocities and calibers mean nothing if you cannot-every time--place the bullet in the game animal where it is a killing shot.

quote:

Originally posted by ztreh:
Velocities and calibers mean nothing if you cannot-every time--place the bullet in the game animal where it is a killing shot.

But if you can, then they do! To keep the thread on topic, let's assume the OP can.

Assuming is not 100 percent nor in concrete.

quote:

Originally posted by ztreh:
Assuming is not 100 percent nor in concrete.

That's true. If it were 100% we wouldn't have to ASSUME, would we.

But, it seems like you too are assuming. The OP never said anyting about hunting with it. He simply stated his surprise at the low velocities he was getting.

Regardless, his proficiency has nothing whatsoever to do with the velocities he is achieving. Unless you are saying that as his accuracy increases so too will the velocities he achieves?

The best way to ruin a great hunting rifle is to shoot it over a crony.

You might have killed hundreds of critters with it and at some god awfull ranges.

But as soon as you find out how slow its shooting your best load it will be trash from then on.

can relate one story about the 338 and the Chrony that relates to the previous post. I used a Ruger #1 with a case full of MR-3100 which when I bought it was called "Data Powder" and then became Accurate Arms AA-3100. In front of the Powder was a 275 Speer Semi spitzer loaded right to the lands on the #1. Shot fine, honest 1.5" sort of thing and killed like the hammer of Thor. Killed Elk dead at incredible real world distances, not internet distances, but to my dismay when I shot it over a Chrony, it was going just under 2600 FPS. However I did not lose faith in it but instead learned how effective one can be with a blunt bullet at 2600 fps!
Best regards,
dmw

When it comes to shooting game in the field I am proficient enough to have put multiple head of game on the ground over the past several decades without too much drama or worry. I don't keep count but in feral hogs alone it's well over a thousand. I do a bit of hunting.

But that is not the point here. The point is that I am finding that the .330 Dakota is not worth the extra effort and money for the miniscule gains that it gives over a standard .338 WM.

I thought that was pretty clear.

Lately I've been thinking of a new long distance toy and the .338 Edge has me scratching my chin. It does offer a real edge over most others.

However, I love my old .338WM and can't see myself trading it off for something else in the field.

I had a Tikka 338WM that did 2850 fps on warm days, subMOA, 69grains R17. I've got another that does the same but needs 71 grains in what is an oversized chamber. However, if I used a book 67.5 grains R17 that second 338 just barely breaks 2700. So a Dakota owner needn't fret that some 338WM's will get close to a Dakota, some will also be a long ways off.

The simplest measure is to look at the case capacity. AmmoGuide's formulae say that the WinMag has 83gn and the Dakota 95.5. That will normally result in a 100-150fps increase, other things being equal. In fact, the Dakota and Weatherby are close to identical in capacity.

As for 250gn @ 3000fps, not even the larger Lapua is rated for that, but the right rifle can do it if pushed. If one wants 3000 in .338" the 225 grain bullets are easier. The TTSX has a .514 BC, too. I would use that bullet on a buffalo, but fortunately have 416's available.

The only problem with the 338WM is that it is so good, so consistent and efficient, so dependable, that people start asking "and what if one got a little more capacity?" The WM is great. Economics has lead me to own 4, though I personally think that the Dakota/Weatherby capacity may be about optimum in this bore.

If I had a Dakota, and I would probably be very pleased, I would work with it to sing its tune. Find its sweet spot.
With today's brass one could also build a 338 based on a 375Ruger case for the equivalent of an inexpensive Dakota/Weatherby.

Both a Dakota and a WinMag throw the same bullet and make an awesome hunting platform.

quote:

Originally posted by p dog shooter:
The best way to ruin a great hunting rifle is to shoot it over a crony.

You might have killed hundreds of critters with it and at some god awfull ranges.

But as soon as you find out how slow its shooting your best load it will be trash from then on.

Boy that is the truth. When I was a teen on the farm we used a regular .22 long rifle to keep the ground hog numbers in check. Then one day someone with a 22-250 told us a .22 wasn't enough for killing ground hogs. All of a sudden those hogs had body armor and we never did have fun with the ole .22's.