Larry, are you suggesting that projectiles that aren't suitable for kodiak bear have a use other than punching holes in paper? Surely you jest? You can't even load them in a tube magazine for a start. Can't see the value in these new fangled VLD's anyway when everyone knows that real hunters don't shoot past 100 yards.

quote:

Originally posted by 45-70 shooter:
Be sure to have your next of kin let us know how you BUFF or Kodiak hunt using Bergers (or any match bullet) turned out.
Hope some good video is taken.

Who me? I don't know why anyone would use a Berger on a Kodiak or Buff. I've never heard of or read about anyone doing it either.

It seems as though I'm the only person to post here who has actually killed something bigger than a deer or bear with the Berger bullets. I shot the moose in 2010 and still shoot the Bergers in my Weatherby.

If my wife draws a moose tag next year, she's shooting Berger bullets out of my 300. If I draw an elk tag, I'm shooting Berger bullets out of my 300. If my wife draws a decent deer tag, she's shooting Berger bullets out of my 30-06 or her 270.

Like others, I would not use them on DG. But on all other animals, I wouldn't hesitate. Do I still think that a bonded bullet is better? Hell yes! But I've never had bullets shoot as well out of my rifles as the Bergers.

Tyler

Bergers work just fine on game IME. Some people just seem to have a problem with them or those who choose to use them. I think there is video of 2 or 3 grizz killed with 7mags and 168 or 180 Bergers on either that show Best of the West, or Gunwerks. It's been done, but I'm not saying I agree with it. The vast majority of hunters don't buff or kodiak hunt anyway. If they did, I'm guessing they'd take a tough bullet like a partition, a-frame, barnes, northfork, or similar. I know I would.

Okay experts. Try sectioning a SMK, Hornady match (other than A Max) and a Berger. Both Sierra and Hornady says "don't use cup and core "match" bullets for hunting". Obviously your few (very few) experiences that turned out well that you chose to share with us prove that the folks at Sierra and Hornady are dopes and you know best.
The guy on the Hornady TV show who works there even said hollow point match bullets frequently fail to expand on game because the hollow plugs up or collapses. But he's just a dummy too.

As for 400 yards being a "cake shot" .... too stupid to address. Obviously where he hunts there is no mirage, no wind and the game is nailed to the spot on the ground. "Long Range "hunter"" is old Sioux for whiteeyes who is to lazy, fat, has no stalking skills and doesn't really care about shot off legs, gut shots, jaws shot off as.... after all "the clean up crew" will be happy to eat the cripple alive.

AGAIN ! I will opine that I have shot a lot more match bullets, starting with the 172 FA 30-06 boattail in an iron sighted 03 and moving on through FIVE decades to the 338 SMKs, Bergers and Bore Techs in my new 338 RUM. It shoots 1/2MOA or less and is ideal for punching paper or ringing gongs much, much farther than 400 yards.

It appears that some are so eager to post that they don't even bother to read the thread. HINT, I mentioned the Berger boys' trip to NZ long before it was (partially) rehashed by one of our experts.

True believers cannot ever be convinced they are wrong, especially when their "vast experience" is very limited. Those few who post on these threads who have actually hunted across the country (or world) for decades will always choose a weapon, cartridge and ammo that offer a major margin for mishaps. They also know that you cannot get too close to ensure an ethical kill.

It will all soon be moot as cup and core bullets will be banned for hunting, a fact all the major bullet makers have realized.

Sad to see that none of the "experts" were eager to sign up for a Buff or Kodiak hunt with their match bullets. (Of course no responsible guide or PH would let you hunt with such an inappropriate rig). The video would have gone viral!

quote:

Originally posted by 45-70 shooter:
Okay experts. Try sectioning a SMK, Hornady match (other than A Max) and a Berger. Both Sierra and Hornady says "don't use cup and core "match" bullets for hunting".

But Berger doesn't.

quote:

Obviously your few (very few) experiences that turned out well that you chose to share with us prove that the folks at Sierra and Hornady are dopes and you know best.

Obviously, you don't read very well. Where did I say, or even infer that anyone at HORNADY OR SIERRA ARE DOPES? Where did I write anywhere that I used a Hornady or Sierra match bullet for hunting game? You seem to have to keep FAR REACHING into Sierra and Hornady land to make an argument against BERGER. You must have been the kid that picked apples from the apple tree to make orange juice. Keep posting, I'm getting a lot of entertainment from your substantial lack of intelligence.

quote:

The guy on the Hornady TV show who works there even said hollow point match bullets frequently fail to expand on game because the hollow plugs up or collapses. But he's just a dummy too.

NO, at this point you have made it quite clear who the dummy is. That would be you since you are incapable of leaving out Hornady and Sierra and anyone else other than BERGER to put some meat into your opinion AGAINST BERGER.

quote:

As for 400 yards being a "cake shot" .... too stupid to address. Obviously where he hunts there is no mirage, no wind and the game is nailed to the spot on the ground. "Long Range "hunter"" is old Sioux for whiteeyes who is to lazy, fat, has no stalking skills and doesn't really care about shot off legs, gut shots, jaws shot off as.... after all "the clean up crew" will be happy to eat the cripple alive.

Too stupid to address, yet you do anyway? You and the Sioux can have your opinions. I have no issue with a 400 yard shot and you do. Glad we both know our limitations. And, get your quotes right. I wrote "breeze" not "cake shot." Seems like the more I read of your posts the more I wonder if you have a disability. No offense if you do.

quote:

AGAIN ! I will opine that I have shot a lot more match bullets, starting with the 172 FA 30-06 boattail in an iron sighted 03 and moving on through FIVE decades to the 338 SMKs, Bergers and Bore Techs in my new 338 RUM. It shoots 1/2MOA or less and is ideal for punching paper or ringing gongs much, much farther than 400 yards.

yea, so? what's your point? You can shoot a match style bullet "much farther than 400 yards" but no one else can?

quote:

True believers cannot ever be convinced they are wrong...

like you? Or do you mean people like Christians? They are believers. Are they wrong too? I find it very bold of you to put your OPINION in writing, yet tell someone else that their OPINION and experience is "wrong." It takes a real pr_ck who thinks a lot of himself to be so bold, so wrong himself, and just another internet armchair quarterback.

quote:

...especially when their "vast experience" is very limited

Who here wrote anything in this thread about their own "vast experience" except you Mr. "FIVE DECADES?" Who are you quoting with the "vast experience?" By the way, you can call me "Mr. TWO DECADES," and here I'm already all caught up with you.

quote:

Sad to see that none of the "experts" were eager to sign up for a Buff or Kodiak hunt with their match bullets. (Of course no responsible guide or PH would let you hunt with such an inappropriate rig). The video would have gone viral!

That's why they are "experts." They wouldn't do such a thing. You just can't let that go can you? Have you been a blow hard douche bag for all FIVE DECADES or did your crotchety opinion recently develop after Berger decided to offer what they call a hunting VLD and people had success with it?

You are a big mouth that doesn't seem to read very well or comprehend much of what you read or you see only what you want to see. I can tell much of your shit you are are spewing is aimed at me, so I'll write it down again and this time maybe you'll get it. I sure hope so. I personally wouldn't take a Berger on a Kodiak or Buff hunt and I don't believe many hunters would. Read that sentence 2-3 times and let it sink in Mr. FIVE DECADES.

As to shooting at 400 yards, get your panties out of a wad and quit being such a downer because someone else thinks its easy. Maybe you struggled with those kinds of distances. Are you the type that damns someone else's capabilities on a regular basis because it was hard for you or what? Don't answer that because I really don't care.

If you plan on responding to this post, do you think it's remotely possible to not type the words "HORNADY" OR "SIERRA?" Do you think it's remotely possible to leave out buff and kodiak and berger in the same sentence since you are the only one who keeps bringing that up and no one who has used a Berger has? Good luck with that.

As with all "internet know it alls", when there are no facts, you respond with insults.
All should note that.
This thread has run its course, you can rant on, eventually you'll try something stupid like a 400 yard shot on a Moose or taking on something that fights back even more and you will end up stomped, gored, clawed, bitten and MIA.
Notifications are going "off" on this thread so have a ball ranting.
Finally I would add that Barnes is NOT suggesting their new "Berger like" bullets be used for game.
Obviously lacking your superior knowledge on bullet performance on live game....... LOL!

quote:

Originally posted by scottfromdallas:
I've read a lot on Bergers and even purchased their first reloading manual. Like Mark Young stated they are designed to penetrate 2-3 inches and then lose 60 to 80% of their weight. They are not designed to exit and they are not designed to "blow Up" on entry. Typical Berger performance is a tiny hole going in, massive trauma in the vitals, and no exit. It's not going to leave a blood trail but most people report fast kills with no need for tracking. You also have to make sure you buy their "hunting" VLDS and not their Target. My understanding is the target has a thicker jacket and doesn't expand reliably.

This is 100% correct. The 168 VLDH shoots great in one of my 7mags, and 30 or so hogs hate this combo. It has performed exactly like scott says from 100-350 yards.

quote:

Originally posted by 45-70 shooter:
As with all "internet know it alls", when there are no facts, you respond with insults.
All should note that.
This thread has run its course, you can rant on, eventually you'll try something stupid like a 400 yard shot on a Moose or taking on something that fights back even more and you will end up stomped, gored, clawed, bitten and MIA.
Notifications are going "off" on this thread so have a ball ranting.
Finally I would add that Barnes is NOT suggesting their new "Berger like" bullets be used for game.
Obviously lacking your superior knowledge on bullet performance on live game....... LOL!

You are the only "know it all" in this thread. No facts? Where on earth do you come from? You are a complete idiot. I've killed quite a few animals with Bergers as have a lot of others. I posted a handful of pics that doesn't put a dent in the photo album. What pocket did you reach into this time to pull up a Barnes bullet that is "Berger like?" Did someone say they plan on using it for hunting? I didn't see it. I've killed a number of bears and a wolf. They "fight back, and claw, and bite." Killed them with Swift Sciroccos, Barnes TTSX, Barnes TSX, Nosler Accubonds and Bergers.

No facts my arse. It is now clear, you cannot read. I have no use for stupidity and now that I know you have no shortage of it, I'll be sure to skip your posts in the future. Normally I'm very respectful on the forums until I meet someone who is as pompous and arrogant and DUMB all in one. You jump in on this thread and go on to sarcastically call other members "experts" and in your condescending way, tell us all we are "wrong" to use Berger hunting VLDs because someone at Hornady and Sierra say so??? I'll keep killing deer and coyotes and pronghorn with my Bergers labeled "hunting VLDs."

It didn't take long doing a search on Mr FIVE DECADES previous posts to find out there was no shortage of being a pompous arrogant know it all who basically is the type that It's MY WAY or the highway. Insults? yea, you are a master at it, you genuine hypocritical ass:

I have now shot several deer and hogs with these. I have to say I am very impressed.

I took 4 hogs yesterday with the bullets. One was a 220 pound bar hog. The other 3 were roughly 100 pounds each. Not a single one took another step. There was a hell of a lot of blood on the ground. The wound channels were most impressive.

The second hog was a 100 pound boar. He was looking at me about 140 yards away. I shot him in the head. The bullet made a big hole in his head. He went on to go through the hog and exit in front of the hind quarters. It left a big hole there as well.

These bullets are the ticket for my own use here in FL. I would not use them on large and/or dangerous game.

moose killed with 6.5x284 and Berger bullet

By the way Larry. I'm flying to Orlando this Friday for a one day business trip. Hope the weather is better than here in Ohio

Mr Mark H Young pretty much has it right.

I've got some experience with Bergers and with other bullets too. I have killed plenty of big animals with the 210gr VLD in a 300 Win Mag - gemsbuck, blue wildebeest, black wildebeest, Hartebeest (a wounded Eland bull at 10m) and others. I guess 20 or so larger animals and lots of springbuck.

As I posted elsewhere recently, I moved on from the Bergers. Angles are something that a Berger VLD cannot deal with. They require maturity and patience in their application. You also limit the conditions and terrain you can hunt with them. You need to be prepared to leave your finger off the trigger if the right shot is not presented.

In many areas I hunt the perfect shot never is... If it's open Kalahari and you are willing to let the trophy of a lifetime turn his back to you and trot away, then fine. I want / need decisive results in cases where I can't control everything and need to know exactly what my bullet will do and not doubt whether it can.

I had a few wounded animals to follow up a while ago and I reached for my girlfriends rifle as I trusted the bonded bullets that she shoots, more than a VLD's that were in mine at that time, on an angled and potentially raking running shot.

On broadside shots or even straight from the front they killed well.

I've moved on and I can use what I use now for all conditions and in the bushveld (where I never took a Berger).

Make your choices and live with the results. But know the limitations of those bullets and exactly what they can do and more importantly what they can't.