Some chap promised me it was going to be a 35WSM. Excuse me while I go find him and stomp the crud out of him.

Betwixt the 243WSSM and the 8mmWSM, you've got to wonder.

On the other hand, I was told that 60% of the guns sold at Sportsman's Warehouse (the single largest US retailer of guns after Wallyworld) are WSM rifles, so it's hard to argue that Winchester screwed up the introduction. FWIW, Dutch.

Stomp him for me to, Dutch. I was just thinking yesterday about a 35WSM.

Now if they'd come out with a 9.3mm, and used their same method of rounding up to call it a 368 Winchester, maybe they would have had something there! As it is, the only popular 8mm in the US is the 8X57, due to cheap milsurp rifles and cheap milsurp ammo.

I think the 325 Winchester will go down as one of their more stilbirth creations, right up their with the 225 Win, but likely with much less exceptance.

Let's face it, deer hunters aren't going to venture past 30 cal, and those seeking elk, moose and bigger guns, start looking at the 338, and work their way up.

Yawn. Another WSM cartridge I won't be buying.

George

Why cant we get a .257, 6mm, or 6.5 mm WSM?(Not the WSSM crap)



Who wants an 325, the bullet selection is going to be very limited.



This one will probably fade like Rems SAUM line.



Good Luck!



Reloader

I can already hear the unfavorable comparisons to the 8mm Rem. mag....

Maybe they thought the 8mm Mag was obscure enough and they didn't want to fight the comparisons to the 338 WM??? Didn't seem to hurt the 300WSM thus far...

Gentlemen



Great news



Now it will be more 8mm bullets on the market



More metric calibers I hope 9,3 WSM is next in line



Cheers

/ JOHAN

Damn--why couldn't they make it the .329wsm---then I could use the bullets in my $89 Dunham sports,,,,Steyr M95 Mil surplus rifle. Oh Well hornady addressed that and made a few bullets. To bad the 8mm mag never made it---should have been great but just couldn't be pinched between the 300 and 340 wby.

I am so glad I went ahead with my own .35 WSM on the Montana action instead of continuing to wait for Winchester to do it. I assure you, there's no need for an '06 length WSM case to drive the larger calibers. I'm getting 2700 fps with the Speer 250 and feel that is plenty adequate for all Alaskan game plus all "Lower 48" game.
Jerry/AK

I would buy one if they would increase the length of the case to that of the 30-06. A nice medium length ultramag.
Or would that be an 8mm Dakota?

I wonder if the actual bullet diameter is going to be .323" or .325"? (Or did I miss that in the above posts?) It would make sense to use .323" to have a larger selection of already available bullets but then there is the stigma of "8mm", at least for the American market. Does anyone think (or know) if Winchester will actually introduce a new caliber of .325" (actual diameter)?



-Bob F.

I have been reloading different 8mm cartridges for some time now and never felt that the bullet choice was poor.

We have Barnes, Speer, Hornady, Nosler, Sierra, Remington, RWS, Swift, Hirtenberger, Blaser, Norma, Degol, Sauvestre, Sologne, Brenneke, GS Custom, LM KJG, Woodleigh...

They make them in all sorts of weights from 125 up to 250gr...

They make them in all sorts of designs from the most simple plain jane soft nose to the most elaborated designs (Metall Elisenh�tte's ScharFrand, Hirtenberger ABC's, just to name two examples) with all sorts of bonded core, partioned, monolithics, etc in the middle.

I'm in for one of those .325wsm!

Hopefully, firms like Heym, Sauer, Mauser... will chamber their rifles for the .325 soon...

Thank you, Winchester!

montero

Damn good idea in my opinion. Americanize the 8mm. No shortage of good bullets available.

Well, once again the decision maker's at Olin confused thinking with stupidity (refrence WSSM's). Problem(s) with this round are many including the fact that an 8mm is too close to a 30 cal in diameter (isn't enought of a jump upward). The .338 caliber (and .308) is firmly welded in the American psyche as the "ideal" diameter for elk and big stuff... certainly, while not as popular as the .338, the .358 diameter has a long history here as well. I would have LOVED a .358 WSM.



An 8mm, disguised as a ".325" is still an 8mm unless this round is directed at European consumers in which case it should have been called an 8mm WSM.



The proverb, "a camel is a horse designed by comittee" seems about right!



Do any of these people actually talk with other hunter's and shooter's... gad's stuff like this is infuriating!

There has to be a profit in new cartridges. Take the 6.5 RM for expample. It never caught on and today the ammo like the .358 Win costs more per box than a popular cartridge.

I say Remington made money on the rifles and ammo. That's the bottom line.

Sixty years after Winchester chambered a few M 70's in .250 Savage we have collectors saying "ooh that's worth a lot"

Nobody bought them for cripes sakes because they did not want them back then. I see little downside profit wise.

I agree. I think they've made their first mis-step.

I was hoping they were coming with some sort of .375 WSM that replicated the .375 H&H. That would be just about scary enough to interest me.

99, you forget the Olin and USRAC are two seperate CO's... Olin (Wichester Ammo) actually does minimal consultation with USRAC/Browning. The cost in R&D to Olin is substantial whilst the cost to USRAC/Browning is minimal.



I still say they're confusing thinking with stupidity...some MBA with the final authority no doubt.

Posted this on 24hcf but figured I'd put it here as well...


After thinking on this overnight, I�m not so sure this round will be DOA.

The only two 8mm cartridges the American hunter knows about are the under loaded 8X57 � which a LOT of guys that would have been buying rifles over a 50 year period got shot at with and may have had a certain reluctance to buy, and the 8mm RM which was REALLY powerful, came in a long case so it needed an Express length action if you happened to like Winchesters, and it really kicked hard. There may be a prejudice against things 8mm or it may simply be that the two offerings given us were not enough and too much. Plus, it you're paying attention, you will see that Winchester studiously avoided any mention of an 8mm at all. It's a BRAND NEW CALIBER! Who else has a .325?!

While the .338 Win. Mag. is a real rootin� tootin� elk round, in the mind of Joe Sixpack hunter it is up there in recoil and power with the �big boys�. Heck, I�m a true CRL and when I saw my first LH Model 70 in .338 Win. Mag. I remember thinking, �now what do I need with a hard kicking cannon like that?� Marketing is all about perception.

So now we have a round that is (paraphrasing here) �up there next to the .338 Mag in power but with significantly less recoil.� Plus it fits a SHORT ACTION! It�s SHORT AND FAT, just like the rounds the bench rest shooters use. It�s NEW AND IMPROVED! It's a real honest to gosh (sound of trumpet fanfare with cherubim floating in the background) ELK RIFLE! And what do elk hunters constantly strive for? Lighter weight rifles, that's what! Well, guess what? The .325 WSM comes in a SHORT, LIGHTWEGHT rifle!

Remember, the powder burning intelligentsia pooh-poohed the whole WSM line when it first came out, �don�t do nuthin� my �fill in the blank- don�t already do.� But look at what�s leading the sales figures by a significant margin � the WSM�s. We�ve had the .270 Weatherby gathering a relatively heavy coating of dust for years when it clearly outperformed the .270 Winchester by what, 200-300 fps? Yawn, so what, it don�t kill deer deader than my ol� .270, and it�s a Weatheby, �one of those overbore, hard kicking, snob world wide guided hunt rich guy� chamberings.

But a .270 WSM that gets 200 fps more than a .270? WOW! This offers significant improvement over my trusty ol� .270. Plus it's made by the same company that makes my good ol' .270. Oh boy, oh boy! I gotta get me one of those!

So now we have something that kills like a .338 Win. Mag but �felt recoil is about like a 180 grain .30-06 load� which will be pronounced in a very scholarly manner in the G&A/ST press. We talk a lot and diss G&A and Shooting Times and such as beneath our rarefied knowledge level, but it�s the G&A readers that are paying most of the bills at Winchester and Remington. Perception, it�s all about perception. Plus a big dose of �Don�t need it, but I want it�.

The Winchester product development department certainly has screwed up a time or two, but they seem to have done okay with the whole WSM thing. As Yogi supposedly said, it�s hard to predict stuff, especially about the future. This .325 WSM may or may not flop over dead but I wouldn�t dig the grave just yet.

Jim - great post I musta missed it on the 'fire. I agree with you - now if the case dimensions are a bit latger than the 300wsm or differnt enough to warrent - the 325 could be a good basis for newer 338wsm wildcats - maybe getting it right to the 338 in speed (for many people speed sells). If its just a 300wsm necked up then we don't get a new case to mess with thats all - I am sure they will sell some of them but I still am not ready to give up my 30-06 anytime soon.

A great "meat and taters" gun and others would be extras so a decision to spend $$ on a "spare" gun would have to be carefully weighed.

Personally, I find nothing wrong with the .323" bore. With bullets in the 150-200 grn range, its done just about everything I wanted it to do and never let me down. The fact that now I have the opportunity to pick up a rifle that'll push a 170 grainer faster than a hot 8x57 is relatively exciting. I may even buy one...and some dies to go with it so I can reload for it once the cartridge doesn't take off in American market and gets discontinued in 2010. To you guys who think the .325 WSM is an abomination, I wouldn't get too worried about it. Unless Winchester has some really good marketing people, I would imagine this newbie will sooner or later go the way of the 8mm Rem Mag.

As a seperate issue...

I can sense some guys out there in sporter land drooling at the thought of a standardized 8mm wsm. I would imagine it won't be long before we start seeing mausers rechambered in this cartridge-its what a lot of people have prayed for a long time...

Further, since Boddington regularly claims the 8mm Rem Mag to be his favorite, perhaps he can have a 8mm Mag in a short action now?

There had better be something different about this 325WSM or Winchester will have a flop from day one. Seriously guys, what will an 8mm diameter 150gr to 200gr projectile do that can't be currently matched by the 300WSM? A 220gr 30cal or 8mm will be eating right into its powder space, not to mention a 250gr 8mm which is even longer and in a short action. Initial reaction is you just can't successfully sell this to the general shooting public, not given its similiarity to the 300WSM.
Cheers...
Con
PS: Mind you I've wondered why Barnes and Nosler keep producing "premium" 8mm projectiles given that the only two cartridges that really need them are the 8x68S and 8mm Rem Mag, and neither is common??

Well if the 8WSM is basicaly the 300wsm necked up - I see not raging demand. If it is a case with a bit more case capacity - I see a new paltform for 30+ caliber wildcats. Long heavy bullets also stick into the WSM case a bit (so we've been told) and if you were to neck the larger (maybe) *mm case down to 30 calibe I would think then you could launch those larger bullets at speeds closer to the 300wm. If it has a tad more case capacity - the 338wsm on this case should be just about perfect too. - gonna have to specify it to your smith too! No confusion needed.!

I'm just glad that they are bringing out another 8mm anything, it will mean more bullets on the market for those of us who are already bitten by the 8mm bug. - Dan

teal,
But what could be done with the current 300WSM to improve its case capacity in a short actioned rifle? Less body taper, sharper shoulder angle, shorter neck or fatter body with rebated rim??? I think you'd be hard pressed to do any of those.
Cheers...
Con

Well, if it is actually a .325", you can shoot .323" bullets in it, but probably can't use the .325" bullets in the .323"'s, so it might not improve 8mm bullet selection much!

More take on the 8mm WSM... most that wanted a WSM for elk
already went with the 300 WSM... those that prefer a lighter recoiling elk rifle went with the 270 WSM. Those that want more than the 300 WSM want, like me, a LOT MORE than an 8mm... something at the bottom end like a 338 or, better yet, a 358 WSM...

I'm bettin' it's DOA except for a few esoteric rifle nuts found here

I think it's going to sell. Most of the folks that I have seen with the WSM's are younger shooters. They are buying what's on the shelf. The gun mags are going to push them, and they will recoil less than a 338 Win Mag.



I love the idea of being able to put it in a military mauser personally. And whether or not American shooters liked the other 8mm's, they do kill animals just fine.



I never thought the 300 WSM would become as popular as it has, but go ask any gunshop what they are selling. They are selling lot's of them.



The 270 WSM is a gun I might consider down the road. As far as light Mountain rifles go, it certainly has all of the qualifications.

"I'm bettin' it's DOA except for a few esoteric rifle nuts found here"

Hey! I resemble that remark. LOL - Dan

Well - the news by Winchester sure generated some discussion on this board. From what I have read (Boddington) 338's based on the WSM case generated a fair less performance than the normal 338 WM - plus the 338 WM is already a big success for Winchester - why mess with it. The published ballistics for the 325 WSM are pretty impressive - Nosler jumping in there is a smart move as well - time will tell but I'm betting this might be a hit. The 8mm RM was a big ass case with the recoil and muzzle blast to match - sort of the same dismal approach as the RUM's - this may be the best WSM offered yet.

I bet they struggled a lot with this decision.
The 338 caliber would definitely have been a hit with those that would have a 338 Winchester (but didn't have one yet.) Since most guys seem to stick to 200-220g bullet weights, that case would have had no problem matching the WM. Maybe they felt it didn't have enough flare to grab attention, and they might be right. It's starting to feel like a Taco Bell menu: twenty ways to arrange bean, ground beef and cheese. By going with a more obscure caliber, they can downplay that a bit. And with Remington's new 6.8mm, they can help bolster the notion that new calibers are not oddities, and bullet selection won't be the problem it would have been. With some of the best bullet makers ready to jump in at the drop of a hat, the American market could get used to the idea.
From a ballistics standpoint, there is nothing at all wrong with the sectional density, hole size, or muzzle speed, so from that perspective it's hard to fault them.
How can we get across to them that we aren't all interested in 400 yd shots, and a mid-weight bullet in 358 or 375 going 2600-2700 would sell? That velocity figure is pushed so hard as a marketing element, it may be impossible to impress anyone with anything going less than 2900 fps.
Maybe a 375 WSM loaded with 220g bullets would make a headline. It would certainly stop a deer in it's tracks. "And it kicks like your '06 with 165g's!" Then load it with 270's at 2500 for a stubby brush gun in bear country.
Let's face it, the marketers (and most of the marketed to) are stuck on speed. If your favorite caliber can't push a bulelt of SD of .250 over 2900 you're probably out of luck.

Has anyone bothered to check if this TRUE before commenting?? I see no mention on Winchester or Noslers website?

Kevin, I think you make an excellent point. Apart from the link offered on several of these threads I haven't been able to find any information... a trial baloon perhaps?

A trial LEAD BALLOON if so!