The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Medium Bore Rifles 9.3x62mm VS .338-06. & 35 WhelenGo | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
| 9.3x62mm VS .338-06. & 35 Whelen | Login/Join |
| one of us |
quote:You can push a 310 Woodleigh in the Whelen just as fast. The 9.3 has a slight advantage in power, but there is nothing I would shoot with the 9.3, that I wouldnt shoot with a Whelen. | |||
|
| one of us |
X-man, That is the beauty of the 9.3x62. Otto Bock hit on a magical combination of case diameter, shoulder length and bore size. It seems to burn powder more efficiently than longer, tapered cases with more capacity. Look at some of the ballistics that the Scovill/Hawk cartridges achieve. It defies logic. The 9.3x62 was developed a year before the .30-06, and seven years before the .375 H&H. | |||
|
| one of us |
Herr Carcano: As a kid I had a chance to live in England for 3 yrs as my dad was an Air Force officer stationed there. One thing I use to find so humorous was what the British History books wrote about History during the American Colonial Days and our Revolution against them, and how it compared to the American History books. They were so far off of each other, it was hard to believe that they even were talking about the same events. I think our brief discussion about the history of Cartridge development is along the same lines. Since neither of us were actually there, I am sure your information available says exactly what you are saying. I can tell you tho, that most American historical books are indicative of what I was saying. I think the USA has developed some of the best hunting and shooting cartridges in the world. On the other hand,the cartridges that I love to hunt with the most are the 6.5 x55 and the 6.5 x 57. Would also jump on a 6.5 x54 if I ever found one in an action that I loved, such as a Mannlicher Stock on a CZ or Sako Action. I am not going to argue with a fellow gun affectionato when we all have way too many self righteous, self professed "liberals" who want to take them all away from us. ![[Mad]](images/icons/mad.gif){kind=icon} ![[Confused]](images/icons/confused.gif){kind=icon} Viele Danke though! | |||
|
| one of us |
Well for a subject thats been covered "plenty" there certainly seems to be lots of interest ! Thanks you for your veiws on these calibres they certainly have there fans. When it comes down to it like some have said dead is dead and all will do the job rather well. For me availabilty is the deciding factor, .338-06 are very scarce and expensive over here infact never seen or heard of one, ive have seen .35 Whelens advertised more so than the European 9.3x62mm but 9.3's seem to be slighlty cheaper and that always helps. So i reckon i will go with the 9.3x62mm not in any hurry will take my time and try and find a nice'en. Funny how you "yanks" seem to re-invent the wheel over and over again ! If you had imported 9.3x63's from Europe there would have been little point in inventing .338 and .35 Whelen......that not ment as a criticism (some of my best friends are yanks ![[Wink]](images/icons/wink.gif){kind=icon} ) more an observation.Perhaps a better example when Americans and the Russians found pens would'nt work in space NASA spent millions developing that pressurised pen..............The Rusky's ??? They used pencils !!! ![[Big Grin]](images/icons/grin.gif){kind=icon} Englander | |||
|
| one of us |
Well just remember, most of us "Yanks" are descendants of a lot of Europeans that decided they had had enough of Europe and went to do something different. However not all Americans think we need to reinvent the wheel, or ignore something efficient. There are a lot of practical people. Believe me the term "American Ingenuity" did not refer to anyone working for the government. Even tho I think the USA has developed some of the best hunting cartridges in the world, In the field, most often you will find me carrying a 6.5 x 55, or 6.5 x 57, or a 7 x 57. They are just efficient and effective cartridges. And while the Europeans like to kick the cat and always slander the good old USA. Remember a lot of cartridges developed here were developed for hunting, the ones I carry in the field were developed in Europe for military use. The USA has given the world the 30/06, the 308 and the 223 for military use. Yet how many governments use something different than those cartridges. But gentlemen, bottom line is we are all hunters and there are a lot of people out there that want to end our passion and take away our firearms. Those are our enemies, we as hunters are all brothers. And no matter what the firearm, shot placement and a good quality bullet is really the name of the game. ![[Cool]](images/icons/cool.gif){kind=icon} | |||
|
| <JOHAN> |
quote:No mean to be rude, but most of the classic like the double rifle nitro bores, 416 rigby, 404 Jeffery, 375 H&H, 9,3's etc 300 H&H, 275 rigby, and a load more are European cartridges Most of the ones who left for USA did it of social and economic reasons. I have quite a few relatives who got feed up and left. I have to agree that the most important thing is to fight the anti-gun freaks ![[Eek!]](images/icons/shocked.gif){kind=icon} / JOHAN | ||
|
| one of us |
I think you'd have to say a great many of the classic calibers......the H&H s , Rigbys , and Jeffries are BRITISH , not European . To my way of thinking , the Brits are not quite the same as Euopeans . I will concede you Euros the 9.3s..... | |||
|
one of us |
quote:Well said Sir! | |||
|
| one of us |
quote:You are of course correct ! The .308 Win (derived from the American T 45 from the equally American .300 Savage) comes to my mind foremost, and also the .223 Rem. The Soviet 5,45 x 39 was built upon the .223's experience. And let's not forget the famous US handgun cartridges, which have conquered the world: .38 Special, .45 ACP, .357 Magnum, .44 Magnum - all American. As were and are the ubiquitous .22 short and .22 long rifle. The .30-03 and .30-06, on the other hand, are uninspired copies of the grandfather of virtually all modern rifle cartridges, the legendary 7,92 x 57 M/88 (not a Mauser development at all, by the way). And then, there is the PPC series, rightly famous for its legendary precision - oops, it were the Soviets who started it with the .220 Russian, sorry :-). Carcano | |||
|
| <JOHAN> |
sdgunslinger and other geographical experts I thought you knew that U.K is a part of Europe even if it's an Island Today, is is even tighter to Central Europe since they have a tunnel under the channel to France. / JOHAN | ||
|
| one of us |
Johan I think you should ask the Brits if they think of themselves as European or British . It seems that at least one feels he is British first . Ya , I am aware there is a tunnel conecting to Europe. There are some bridges connecting the US and Canada too , as well as the long common border . If you think that makes everyone feel like one people , read the political board for a few days........ [ 06-03-2003, 18:16: Message edited by: sdgunslinger ] | |||
|
Moderator |
quote:Can't we all just get along | |||
|
| one of us |
The 9.3X62 has a slightly larger base, less taper, and is llonger to the shoulder than the 35 Whelen, holding about 8% more powder. Bore is 2.23% bigger, giving a bit more energy potential as well. The net effect of the larger case capacity and bore is a 7.5% advantage in muzzle energy, which is why the handloaded 35 Whelen tops out at about 3720 FPE and the 9.3 gets to 4000 FPE. It used to be that the 35 had a better bullet selection, but now Hawk now has everything from 200 to 320 grs for the 9.3, so its pretty flexible and close to perfect for big game in the US. For maximum flexibility neck it up to .375 and bump the shoulder to 30 degrees. The 1 in 10 twist will stabilize 350 gr 375s and clock 2340 fps. | |||
|
| one of us |
I sure like the 9.3 x 62.......easy to make cases (from 35 Whelens), paper-patching 35 caliber cast bullets up to .367", and with a new mold for a 265 grain gas check flat point this might be the best affordable cast bullet game caliber around--excepting maybe the 45-70. For vermin, 9mm Makarov bullets do fine work--that is how I fire-form the expanded 35 Whelens, just seat Makarov HP's and go rat blasting. The shoulders blow forward with a good stiff load of WC-852 (fast lot), and the critters get cartwheeled while the casings get formed. A win/win. I can't help thinking that the 9.3 x 62 is to African and European hunters what the 30-06 is to us North Americans. I'm sure having fun with mine! Deputy Al | |||
|
| one of us |
Carcano, Meine Fruend: The 30/06 is so boring because it just plain works. I have rebarreled a lot of my 30/06s to 6mms or 6.5 mms. However that old gal, just plain works. ammo is available anywhere on the planet that you can get ammo. Anyone who tells you that they have put a 220 grain slug into anything big will tell you it works, period. I just wish in my 8mm VZ 24 that I could still get a good 225 grain meant for the Mauser on our side of the pond. I have 50 rifles in my gun case. However a friends wife had problems with a cougar ( mountain lion) coming down and killing the exotic sheep she was raising. several of us were asked to go and stand guard over the sheep and try to ambush the cougar when it came to feed again. I just opened my gun safe and did not even think about calibers. I grabbed a Winchester Model 70 in 30/06 with a good 4 x40 scope on it and some 180 grain bullets. Experience and reflex. Just plain confidence in the round. | |||
|
| one of us |
Dunno where this topic is drifting to but I�ll give it my 2 cents: I have shot many a moose with 30-06,9.3x62,.338, 45-70. They all have died. Just a matter of personal taste and some common sense, none of them is "better" than another. But I sure like 9.3 for an all around moose rifle, I used to have a CZ for a couple of seasons and they are nice rifles. Clean,efficient kills with Norma Oryx. Still,I sold it. Why? Because I prefer to carry a Marlin when hunting with a dawg,short fast shots here. I also cast for it,practise a lot. If long shots are needed in a different type field hunt,338 Lapua then. The 30-06 is there just as a spare,"good for anything"-rifle,I am completely confident with it from birds to moose. I do not collect guns so I rather learn the few I got inside out and keep them in good condition than have dozens of them collecting dust. Been there,so to speak.... ![[Roll Eyes]](images/icons/rolleyes.gif){kind=icon} Got a .243 too and some rimfires,that�s it.Could I only keep two: 30-06 and 45-70. Now,when comparing calibers: 9.3 mm is 8.4% bigger than .338. Yes,the DIAMETER is. But the BORE is 17% bigger. Think about it. The hole it makes is 17% bigger to start with and that is what I like a lot. The Taylor values are worth considering if you�re after big game. Take the 45-70,the DIAMETER is 35% bigger than .338. But the BORE,the actual area of the hole that a flatnose hardcast makes on paper is 83% larger. It�s like an already expanded .338. Simple mathematics here. It�s not just the energy,it�s how the energy is delivered. Try the 9.3 CZ,see if you like it and shoot it good. If you do not like it you can send it to me,still got the dies and lots of brass. By the way:45-70 in this corner of the World is considered a weirdo. No brass or bullets easily available,with a big help of my friends in the USA I have a good supply of brass and molds these days. ![[Smile]](images/icons/smile.gif){kind=icon} Somehow the World has got smaller lately,the Net is fantastic. | |||
|
| one of us |
Petander, Hava Suomi! Unless my Alzheimers is kicking in I don't think I've noticed your posts here before so a belated welcome to the board. Then again, perhaps you preceed me here. It's funny how the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence (pond). 45-70's are common around here but I have no interest in one. 9.3x62's, on the other hand, are as scare as hen's teeth but I "had" to have one. | |||
|
| one of us |
X-Man, My 375 H&H will push a 300 gr. bullet at very close to 2600 FPS without undue stress...My 9.3x62 will push a 320 gr. bullet at 2475 with a max load...so the 375 betters the 9.3x62 by a bit, bu the 9.3x64 will equal them both and then some. All velocitys chronographed in 5 shot groups....I see no contradiction here, maybe you need to up your powder charge. Major, I suppose the 310 Woodleigh in a 35 Whelen would get you pretty close to 2250 FPS or so I have been told and that sure is a good load no doubt, but a bit short of the 9.3 x 62..I chronographed in a 26" barrel, ?? the 35 Whelen...you may or may not be correct, I don't know...I would have to chronograph a Whelen in a 26" barrel to answer that one...I'm betting the 9.3 would top the whelen by 100 to 150 FPS and 10 grs. of bullet which is substantial with 300 gr. plus bullets, not so with lighter bullets. This is my reply to both of your posts and of course it is argueable at this point... | |||
|
| one of us |
Petander: If you need any 45/70 brass or anything like that drop me an email. Would be more than happy to fix you up and send you what you need over there. Wish the rest of the people in the world were as great of a people as the Finns are. Some day I hope to be able to visit your country. to be able to hunt would be even a bigger gift. If It can be shipped via the mail and pass thru customs I would be more than happy to help out our European brothers. We are all in this together. | |||
|
one of us |
quote:Very nice of you to make this offer, seafire! I'm now in Sweden, but used to live in the States. I didn't know how important all those lovely US mailorder companies were to me and my shooting hobby until after I moved from the US. ![[Frown]](images/icons/frown.gif){kind=icon} It seems that (since the events of 9-11) many anti-gun people are using that sad event to harrass recreational shooters all over the world. It is now more difficult and expensive to order any "evil gun-related" merchandise than it used to be. Some US mail order companies simply decline all orders from outside the US rather than deal with the extra red tape and hassles. I once had a fibreglass gun stock blank returned to Brownells in the US just because some *private contractor* transporting US mail overseas decided that they would no longer handle ANYTHING "gun-related". A private company deciding what can be mailed from the US! <OK, rant mode off >Anyway, it is great to see that there are nice shooters like seafire that recognize the plight of many gun owners abroad and try to help. As seafire says, we are indeed all in this together! Thanks again seafire! jpb | |||
|
| one of us |
JPB; Thanks. I really believe that some of this fanatical Anti Gun stuff originated in the USA. Whether other nations want to acknowledge it or not, trends in this country seem to spread around the world. It does not matter whether it is a good trend or a BAD trend. We have too many people over here with too much time on their hands and think they have an "enlightened" social conscience, that they must ram down the throats of others who don't have the same views as they do. Most of the time it is whatever the "Cause d'Jour" is. Doesn't matter much as long as it keeps them in the lime light. What is worst is women politicians. We have anti gun ones that were born with a silver spoon in their mouth and were spoiled by Mommy and Daddy. Being told 'no' just meant that they did not throw a Big Enough TemperTantrum yet. If you want to see the most ardent Pro Gun person on the planet, watch a woman that use to be An Anti Gun "Liberal" ( their view of themselves, not mine) who got raped. Once again, fanatic about whatever they have on their agenda with no care if anyone agrees with them or not. Most are just Born Spoiled little kids that never had to grow up in Society. | |||
|
| one of us |
Seawolf,thanks a lot. The same applies to you. A fanatic = someone who is interested in different things than I am. Let�s keep this boat floating and remember "loose lips sink ships". EDIT: Ooops... Seafire,sorry! We have about 20 hours daylight per day at the moment,hard to see the screen. [ 06-07-2003, 05:22: Message edited by: Petander ] | |||
|
| one of us |
quote:Well, in the bigbore range, you have at least your home-brewed 9,3 x 53 R (and its Russian cousin with identical measurements, but a misleadingly different caliber name, the 9 x 53 R). Regards, Carcano | |||
|
| one of us |
Ray You are right there is no contradiction. What threw me was the efficient relationship between the small case and large bore. I used the 375 Scovill as a comparison to the 9.3x62. A comparison that I must admit is not valid. The 9.3x62 seems to have a little more case capacity. The 375 Scovill does have a bigger bore however. FYI Barnes lists the 300X at just under 2300fps in the 375 Scovill. Thanks as always. Jamie | |||
|
| one of us |
7th Edition Cartridges of the World list's the 9.3x62's most powerfull load as a 286gr at 2500fps, for 3970ft lbs of energy. The same book shows the 35 Whelen, as firing a 300gr bullet 2500 fps for 4164 ft lbs of energy. The Whelen load is a 300gr Barnes with 57gr's of BL-C2. | |||
|
| one of us |
Who ever wrote that load into Cartridges of The World mustn't be afraid of lawsuits. My 35 Whelen will crack 2500 with a 250 gr bullet but that's it. I've never seen a 35 whelen (or 350 Rem Mag or 358 Norma Mag, I have all three) do 2500 with a 300 gr bullet. either that's a typo, or somebody is running things way over pressure. FWIW - Dan | |||
|
| one of us |
In any case, the offending load is no more listed in the 9th edition. C. | |||
|
| one of us |
I haven't tried the heavy bullets in my Whelen, but have heard of 2400 fps with the 310gr in a 24" barrel. I can easily exceed 2500 fps with 250's in my 24" barrel. | |||
|
| one of us |
I think the load quoted in Major Caliber's post was a typo . I believe they pulled that load out of the first Barnes loading manual . They did get 2400 fps out of an original Barnes 300 gr with BL-C2 powder and a 26 inch barrel . My 24 inch Whelen with long throat will easily get 2600+ with 250gr slugs , and near 2800 with 225 s . I think right around 2400 could be possible with 300 grainers...... [ 06-10-2003, 17:43: Message edited by: sdgunslinger ] | |||
|
| one of us |
X-man, To start with you can easily get 2600 FPS with a 300 gr. bullet in a 375 H&H, if you see the need. 2475 FPS would be a very mild load in any 375 H&H..... To get 2475 in the 9.3 x62 requires the use of a 26" barrel which most of my guns have and several loads will reach that velocity give or take little in my 9.3's...The 9.3x62 case will hold and shoot 8 percent more powder than a converted 30-06 case...I also get 2520 FPS with a 286 gr. Nosler. I suspect that I have been shooting the 9.3x62 longer than any American on this board and most Europeans perhaps. I have not had any problems with these loads...and all have been chronographed. | |||
|
| one of us |
Lets talk about THE KING 9,3x70 (!!) My gunsmith just creates on for my. I think it will cost half a year more, but than I really found my "one for everything rifle" For an appetizer look at www.hataritimes.com go to GUNS there you will find more about this caliber. Burkhard | |||
|
| One of Us |
If you take a look at Saeeds reloading data you can find some reasonable loads and velocities for these rounds. They do just as most would expect. If you look at 250 grain bullets, the 338-06 will give you 2472, you can get around 2500 from a 35 Whelen (Nosler book) and you can get 2580 from the 9.3X62 (same thing, 2582 in the Nosler book with a 26" tube) and 2262 with a 300 grain Barnes, the 9.3X64 will produce 2874 with the 250 grain bullet. The first three are pretty much as expected. If you load a similar weight bullet to the same or close pressure, the larger bore will give you a higher velocity but the round will shed it's weight faster. The three are just an extension of the old argument with the 338-06 and the 35 Whelen being twins, much to Paul H's dismay (he won't admit it, lol). The three are very much ballistic triplets. The 9.3X64 has much greater case capacity and will burn more powder to generate the extra pressure and velocity. Now of course if you can find a metric chronograph, you can believe anything. | |||
|
| one of us |
Actually Chic, I think chrony offers metric chronographs (or at least they did). I don't think it makes the bullets go any faster though. - Dan | |||
|
| one of us |
The Americans invented the selfcontained cartridge, The French smokeless power, The Germans Bolt Action Rifles, The British, a Double Barrel shotgun or rifle that will out last time. The History of guns are so inter-related, because some many in so many places worked on it. America was first to be able to mass produce rifles with interchangable parts, in Europe for the most part at the time guns were hand made. And you needed to be a member of the landed gentry in order to hunt. And we post all of this stuff on the internet, an invention at first for Generals to have a secure form of comunication between the missle bases out in the Western United States. Gee its just another fine day in the 21first century. Think about this, we are making noise over which cartridges are better, They well all came into being over 80 years ago, same for the rifles, there are dam few things that are that old that are as good and usefull to day as they were in 1900! Guns are like that. As a little side note the U.S. Marines are looking for a new handgun, and it seems that the Browning 1911 .45 APC is what they are looking for. John Browning has got to be smiling. And the big 50 still is going strong, and that that came into being in WW-1 and that is to is pushing 80 years and then some. [ 06-18-2003, 05:50: Message edited by: George Semel ] | |||
|
| One of Us |
Dan, it was intended as a joke and yes they do offer them, I believe it is just a switch and the reading is of course much higher as far as a number. There is a Mariner's advertisement with Jamie Moyer (pitcher) using a radar gun and his specialty is anything but fast. They are getting readings in the high 90's and comments come from other players watching his long arm slooooow pitch and the gun reading 96. Someone says "96 MPH???" and one of the other players says "no it is metric, he bought it in Europe, but don't tell Jamie." | |||
|
| One of Us |
Can you to give me of information on 6.8 x 60 mm Mauser Chinese ? I can make it has leave of what case thanks a lot | |||
|
One of Us |
Huh??? Are you for real? And how do you intend to explain that? Are you seriously saying that you can push a 250 grs bullet faster from a .338-06 than from a .35 Whelen? Stop reading reloading manuals, and think!  Bent Fossdal Reiso 5685 Uggdal Norway | |||
|
| One of Us |
9.3x62 Brass RWS, Norma,Lapua,Horneber,S&B,HDs?, Grafs&sons/Hornady. just about all avail from Huntingtons. 35W brass ..Remington 338-06 brass.. Norma,Wthrby. On MidwayUsa. 9.3 Ammo,they have Asquare286gnSolid,Lion, Deadtough, and Lapua 270gn. 9.3 brass from Norma, Lapua. 35Wh: Rem factory loads only, NO Brass. 338/06: Aqsuare/200BT,250solid,250NP,250DeadTough ,Weatherby/210NP. Brass from Asqre and Wthrby.
If that is so, should not the 375Taylor(with its slightly larger case& bore than the Brenneke) outdo them all? Yet in past postings, it has been stated by a number of folk, that the 375taylor is almost a 375H*H...  | |||
|
| Powered by Social Strata | Page 1 2 |
 | Please Wait. Your request is being processed... |
|
The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Medium Bore Rifles 9.3x62mm VS .338-06. & 35 Whelen
Visit our on-line store for AR Memorabilia
| View $GS_USERNAME's Public Profile |
| Add $GS_USERNAME to my Buddies |
| Add $GS_USERNAME to my Ignore List |
| Invite $GS_USERNAME to a Private Topic |
| View Recent Posts by $GS_USERNAME |
| Notify me of New Posts by $GS_USERNAME |