I been foolin' with the bulk Remington 110gr round nose bullets and Unique lately. It seems most promising as a "rabbit load" to carry when hunting bigger game. But the accuracy is no longer "minute-of-bunny" past 60 yards or so.

I'd like to try 2400 for accuracy with this bullet. Anyone ever run 2400 under a 100gr - 120gr bullet in a .308?

badgerrr,

Why don't you try one of the powders specifically designed for that purpose?

I have had excellent results using reduced loads of H4895 in a 260 Rem/120 gr bullet, I can get below 2000 fps and still have good accuracy:
http://www.hodgdon.com/data/youth/index.php
You can also get some decent upper end velocities with H4895....

Accurate's XMP-5744 is designed for reduced loads, but I have not tried it:
http://www.accuratepowder.com/data/rifle5744.html
Regards,

Bill

Bill, you ask "why?" A good squib load may use only 10 grains of powder. The loads you just referenced, show about 38 grains of powder. That's 3-4x more powder for the desired velocity. Why would I want to spend more $$$ on powder than necessary? In Alaska powder costs me $22 per pound or 0.31 cents per grain. Do I want to spend 3 cents or 12 cents per shot on powder? Provided I can get accuracy, I'd take the cheaper load.

FYI - I have a bunch of reduced loads loaded up for my kids .308 Win (Ruger MK II compact) that I hope to shoot over the chrono this weekend. 11-12 grains of Unquie with the Sierra 125 gr spitzer and 10-11 grains of Unique with a 150 grain commercial cast bullet. I'll post the results when done. I'm looking for an fairly accurate load for the kid to practice his marksmanship with - 1,500 fps and 2 MOA is just fine with moi.

I might give W231 a try if Unique doesn't work out.

[ 07-03-2003, 03:09: Message edited by: Lars G ]

Lars. This is a #2400 load for cast bullets in the 150 to 180 gr. range. Try 16.0 gr. of Alliant #2400 for 1500-1600 FPS with a 150 to 180 gr. cast bullet. Should give you a starting point with the 110 gr. bullets you're playing with. Might even be able to cut back some on the charges.
I'd be a bit leery of using W-231 unless you plan to use cast bullets. I have used the #2400 load mentioned above in a 30-06 and a .308. Pressures are very mild witht he 190 gr. cast bullet I used, and recoil was virtually nil.
Paul B.

Lars,

I should have composed my post differently, even didn't like the way it sounded when I read it after posting, and have heard some have good results with Unique and some of the other pistol/shotgun powders. My apologies.

I have to disagree with your "39 gn" comment, though. I do not know what the XMP5744 loads are as the site did not link to the data, but I consider 39 gns of H4895 a fairly stiff load - not the reduced load I was referring to. For a 150 gn (as low as their data goes), they list 45.5 gn H4895 max, you can go as low as 50% of max for the reduced load, so we are only talking about 23 gns or so of H4895, but with excellent accuracy in the guns that I have tried it in.

What good is saving a few pennies if it doesn't have the accuracy that you require?

Regards, Bill

Try 20-24 grains of IMR 4227. for the velocity range you are looking for.

Got some results of my recent 308 Win Lite loads posted over on the RELOADING forum if folks are interested.

I loaded 110SP .308 for wife then reduced powder by 10% of starting grains. It shot very well, below is a link to the group size at 100yds It was a four shot group with one horizontal flyer(my fault) but I was super impressed with this round, even out shot 168gr Speer Match bullets!!!
I will add the load data when I have time. But used IMR 4064 powder with 10% less than starting grains.

http://www.gaengineer.com/images/110.jpg

I do a lot of down loading. 2400 is a good powder for doing so, as is RL 7 for that application. Some of the best consistencies I have had, with minimal deviation in velocity spread has been with Blue Dot powder ( 20 fps or so average).

Start with about 15 grains and see how you like it. Economical loads like this can give a lot of shooting on an economic budget. A 110 grain bullet will certainly take any little deer in Western Oregon.

5744 is also a good powder for down loads. However it will take more than using Shotgun powders. I also use a mag primer with a light load, strictly because with a lot of room and not much powder, who knows where it can be in the case when you are ready to shoot it. If you are aiming downhill at game, the powder is going to be down by the bullet instead of near the primer. A mag primer has a lot of spark, so it eliminates the worry.

As far as H 4895 powder, I know it can be downloaded. However I had never had any decent accuracy out of it downloaded in ANY caliber.
It shoots the bullet and reduces the recoil, but I guess it boils down to your definition of acceptable accuracy. H 4895 does not meet my criteria, and lord knows I have tried.

Good luck with the project. Welcome to the club of those of us, who don't believe, you need a 500 yd gun, with a 200 grain bullet and 5,000 pounds of muzzle energy and 60 pounds of recoil to take a little 75 pound blacktail at 50 yds.
( However, you won't impress your buddies with your practicality)

I shot 8 rnds under an inch the other day with 13.5 grn of red dot and a 110 rnfmj. I don't know what the velocity is, but at 100 yds it drops about 5" from my usual 150 grn load. This with a 210 primer. I was suprised by the accuracy, I don't usually bother shooting paper with it. It's cheap, fun, and easy to shoot for beginners.

Badgerr,
I once did some rather "exhaustive" testing in developing a squib load for my 14" Contender in 6.5mm JDJ. This round is based on an improved 225 Winchester; as I recall, it has about 35 gr water capcity to case mouth. The round also used large rifle primers and a "tuft" of dacron filler. The bullet I used was a 120 gr Rem PSP-CL. Anyway, I tried a multitude of powders, including IMR 700X, Unique, 2400, W/W 231, Bullseye, and Red Dot. All showed excellent accuracy at my desired velocity of 1100-1200 fps. I settled on the 700X as it didn't seem quite as loud as the others. (Not that ANY were very loud.... ) All shot 1/4"-1/2" groups at 25 yds without making changes in my scope or setting. I also developed an 700X load for my 270 Win using 110 gr bullets. Can't seem to find my 270 load data right now, but the 6.5 JDJ used 8 gr 700X @1200 fps. (Seem like the 270 load was 8 or 9 gr, but don't quote me...). When shooting the squib loads, I leave my variable scope at 4X and use the juncture of thick to thin part of the lower verticle cross hair as my aiming point. The Lyman "Cast Bullet Handbook" is a great resource for reduced loads. BTW, for the 308 Win, it shows a starting load of 9.0 gr/700X/1508 fps. Hope this helps you some. Gary T.

Based on the earlier " 300 mag for deer crowd" arguments earlier in the year, it is good to see that we have some guys who concentrate more on shooting and what they are shooting at and with, instead of relying on "smashing power at any distance"

A little common sense goes a long way, and I dare say that I can bet my bottom dollar that most of the people on this post spend a lot more trigger time, than a lot of the mag shooters do.

You don't have to increase velocity very much at all, to start dramatically increasing the life of your barrel at all. I am sure any gun smith will tell you that a 308 shooting 110 grain bullets at 2000 fps or less, will probably have a barrel life of well over 50,000 rounds.

I heard a story from a guy who use to live in Alaska, that I thought was both funny and realistic. As a young shooter, he had a rifle rebarreled to some sort of Mag caliber for long range shooting and hunting. He asked the old Alaska gunsmith, what was the life of the barrel, before throat erosion crept in?

Being practical, as they have to stretch things out in Alaska, even if they can afford to replace something, there may not be one around to buy to replace it with.

When asked about barrel life, his response, was " oh the same amount of life as any other caliber, big or small..... About 8 to 10 pounds of powder."

Think about that, and powder capacity of the cartridges you shoot, and you can never get a better answer than that. Multiply how many loads you get out of a pound of powder and multiply it by 8 to 10. It is not far off base if any at all!

Seafire,

I'm sure it will amaze you to learn that I also own, shoot, and enjoy a 300 rum. And I get more trigger time with 22 rimfires than all my other firearms combined (something to shoot while barrels cool).

Just about every time I read a post of yours, it seems you are exacting some sort of personal vendetta against mags and their owners. Any reason for this? This position makes me laugh, as I imagine people cried the same way when the 30-06 was first introduced: it shot too fast for bullets manufactured, kicked harder than most at the time, used alot of powder, etc. I'm sure that you shoot a 30-30, though, and have no use for such a caliber. Or is the word "magnum" what is so bothersome? In this case, a Dakota or h&h must be ok.

The idea of judging barrel life based on the amount of powder down it is intriguing. I hope to get more like 12lbs down my 300 before a rebarreling, but I won't be heartbroken if I only get 10 (~700 rnds). I'm excited to see what kind of accuracy I get with my new, custom barrel! I wonder how many lbs I will use before I shoot out the 308. Trouble is, I know 30-06 owners with very old barrels who don't ever seem to shoot them out. I think that the velocity/powder-per-shot involved with overbores is a contributing factor.

Anyhow, Badgerr, I'm sure you will be pleased if you try red dot with a 110. You can use a similar load in any 30 cal with a decent sized capacity (I read a limit of 300 sav on the low side). I like the red dot b/c it fills the 308 to about 60%, so you can't double load and it needs no filler. I shoot shotgun shells at 70 yds with it for practice, as it is just about dead on with my scope adjusted for 250yd zero with 150 grn's.

Mikea. While I'm sure that Seafire can more than defend his postion, I do take offense at people who flame on because someone does not agree with their point of view.
I shoot some fairly hard kicking rifles, sometimes on the hunt and sometimes just for fun, but some cartridges I feel are the epitome of assaninity. Yes. the .300 RUM and 30-378 WBY are in that class. But that is nothing more than MY opinion.
Could be some people just don't cotton to getting the snot kicked out of them, while others enjoy the challenge. I do happen to be one of the latter, although, I think I'll pass on that .577 T-Rex.
My point being, rspect the other guy's opinions, even if they don't coincide with yours. Rememner, opinion are like rectums. Everybody's got one.
Paul B.

I respect his opinion, and yours. That's why I NEVER question what gun another member here shoots, or make judgements therein.

I don't want to start any fights here. I really enjoy reading and learning from these posts. I just got a little defensive. I really don't care if anyone here thinks that my rifle, truck, or mannerisms are assinine. I'm simply working on little sleep today! As an aside, I would argue that Seafire has been tossing out some grenades for awhile. I just usually ignore them.

Mike A;

I respect your opinion and also what you carry, whether it be a BB gun or a 460 Weatherby. Being a Montana resident, you have the opportunity to use a Magnum, and I am sure you can use it and use it both effectively and safely.

What I have a problem with is a lot of guys who do get a 300 and Up mag, that really can't harness it and when that happens, where is that shot going? They don't know.

I have had these conversations before. I respect any firearm... Like guns don't cause crime, the caliber does not cause a bad shooter.

Too many guys just get sold on something they really can't handle. However, knock what someone else carries, and most instants they will just ignore the person who said anything.

Knock a 300 mag owner and they are ready to fight. Not many guys carry a 338 or 7 mag are ready to fight about their firearm. Just a pattern I have noticed.

Since 30 caliber is the most common caliber in the USA, naturally it will be the most popular magnum. However, at a local gun shop here, they told me that most of the 270s they sell to guys who are trading a gun in on it, are trading in a 300 Mag, Normally Winchester, the most common.

You post indicates your dissatisfaction with what I said, but did so in a professional and gentlemanly manner. I can assure you that you are not one of the crowd of people I worry about carrying a mag or any other rifle. You demonstrate to me that you know what you are doing.

It just surprises me that the 300 mag is just the choice of so many " slob" hunters out there. The ones that don't give we hunters a good name.
It is not the rifle they carry that makes them that way.

I still think 80 % of the guys that have one, can't handle it. Of course they are usually the guy that buys one box of ammo a year, and it has to be carrying whatever the trendy bullet this season is. And they have to have a big powered scope with a big objective on it. You know the type. My buddy lives in Billings and I have been around your range up by the airport and have seen them there too. Just like at my range.

Please accept my apologies if any personal insult was taken by you. It was not intended.
Thank you.

Seafire,

Thanks for your understanding post. I really didn't want a fight. I think that we are pretty much in full agreement on the subject. There may well be more slob hunters carrying magnums than anything else, especially 300 wm. I�ve known a couple.

I also agree that the 300 rum is excessive for most situations. I appreciate the credit you bestow upon me, but I'm not sure if I can harness its full potential. However, it is not for a lack of trying. As wasteful as it is, it is a very powerful cartridge and consequential for whatever it hits. But I have talked others out of buying one. It simply heats up the barrel too fast and costs too much, so shooting it is not as fun as other rifles I have. For hunting around here, though, it is excellent. Yet, you do see a lot of used 300 rum�s around, don�t you? I picked mine up new on clearance for around wholesale. I�m afraid it is not a cartridge for everyone.

If you end up in the area and want to kill some time, look me up. I�m not in Billings anymore; I moved out to Bozeman. But not this weekend, I�ll be hunting!!

Mike