quote:

Originally posted by 7kongoni:
I'm all for any cartridge, old or new, that generates enthusiasm and pumps money into the firearms industry.

And that, is a great point.

quote:

Originally posted by Jason P:

quote:

Originally posted by 7kongoni:
I'm all for any cartridge, old or new, that generates enthusiasm and pumps money into the firearms industry.

And that, is a great point.

Handing the fire arms public a snow job to reap reward for hyping a product that brings absolutely nothing new or real to the table is The firearms industry gets a short run new sales benefit while detracting income from existing models . It also delivers a product that as history shows is short lived. The real gainers are the marketing people . Kinda similar to politicians.
The real gain for the fire arms industry just ain't there. Sorry guys. That's JMHO roger

Same thing happened with the 28 Nosler when it was introduced. Everyone had to get one. Maybe not as popular as the 6.5 CM. Nosler did get in some hot water as I recall for inflating performance numbers of the 28.

You (us) old guys have completely missed the point; realize it ain't 1960 any more; young guys want something NEW and sexy; just like we did 30-40-50 years ago, and that shooters always have. Makes no difference that there are already 4 existing cartridges that will do the same thing; they are OLD things. Do not tell young shooters to only buy wood stocked 6.5 Swedes or whatever; won't happen.
And do not worry if it will have staying power in the market; doesn't matter. Plenty of "good" cartridges are dead as a stone, and some goofy ones made it. What difference does it make what someone likes shooting?
New things sell to young people, and after all, old guys do not buy that many new guns.
And I am all for anything, new or old, that promotes the shooting sports among younger people. After all, you ain't going to be on the scene forever.

Well put DPCD, and exactly to the point. Not to mention that the gun industry is generally hanging on by their fingernails and new whizbang cartridges sell guns.

quote:

Originally posted by lee440:
Well put DPCD, and exactly to the point. Not to mention that the gun industry is generally hanging on by their fingernails and new whizbang cartridges sell guns.

50 yrs ago when I was 32 (YOUNG?)all my earnings went into supporting a growing family.I had 3 rifles, a 1917 06, a 6.5 Carcano. and a put together 22 varmiter. After I retired I started buying guns. Around age 70 I took inventory . I had over50 long arms and started selling them and giving them away. Than I got a wild hair and bought 7 more all at once and later some more.
most young people as a rule don't really have any spare cash. Taxes, car payments , house payments or rent, Insurance etc. eat it up quick.
How long do you think the fire arms industry can hang on by finger nails doing what they're doing. They'll hold on just long enough for their CEOs to get their Golden Parachute and then "Adios it was nice to have you. There's one born every minute. "
roger

quote:

Originally posted by bartsche:

quote:

Originally posted by Jason P:

quote:

Originally posted by 7kongoni:
I'm all for any cartridge, old or new, that generates enthusiasm and pumps money into the firearms industry.

And that, is a great point.

Handing the fire arms public a snow job to reap reward for hyping a product that brings absolutely nothing new or real to the table is The firearms industry gets a short run new sales benefit while detracting income from existing models . It also delivers a product that as history shows is short lived. The real gainers are the marketing people . Kinda similar to politicians.
The real gain for the fire arms industry just ain't there. Sorry guys. That's JMHO roger

I won’t argue the fact that you probably know more about guns than I ever will. And, admittedly, I’m
not all that interested in going on a spending spree for these new calibers. I’m happy with what I have.

However, I think you are wrong in that these “new” calibers “do not” bring anything to the table. My 22
year old son is an example. He spends all his free time studying in college and has little time to hunt.
But, he has spoken several times about the 6.5 and is intersted in getting one and shooting it. If this
can get him interested in shooting, I’m all for it. Whether it’s hype or not, it’s soarked an interest
and that’s reason enough for me.

To each his own.

Right.
Just buy yourself a gun company, and build only walnut stocked, high polish blued, rifles in only calibers that are at least 50 years old. Watch and see how long you stay in business. Gun companies are, by definition, Businesses; they have to make a profit, or at least cover costs in the short term. That niche of the market is only for the one off, custom builder who can charge $5k each.
Mass produced rifles, can't do that, any more because the buying market is not there for it. As I said, the past is gone.

quote:

The biggest eye opener is what is driving around on American roads. Sitting in the traffic on the highway to San Diego my wife and I were counting cars...... Not a single American brand passenger vehicle, not a single V8..... all small compact cars out of the east ? why ? efficiency

You were in the wrong state!

ALF and Dpcd, I believe you guys have every right to your opinions. However I think you are missing the point. I am not attacking the blessed fire arms ( American ) industry,nor am I saying that young or old shootera don't have the right to buy a (ME TOO) 6.5 Creedmore.
When you say this is not a craze established by marketing with only a short timed industrial benefit I believe you are not looking at historical evidence. That flashlight scenario Is one where a good product was overshadowed by new technology.
The Creedmoor is not new HI TECH. In fact even the name given it which goes back about 130 years, is another marketing ploy used to create immature emotion.
I realy don't know where your wooden stock anthem came from or how it real applies to my postings.
Old? Yes!!. I still load every week and get about 4-5 Hrs. continuous shooting every 2 weeks At which time I mingle with all ages with with their varying gun interest. As I said earlier I see far more 6.5 x55s than I do Creedmores. In fact some one ran over a box of Creedemore ammo and disfigured them. I took them home , pulled the bullets and used them and the powder as is in one of my Wildcats that I designed between 1958 and 1962.One of the only meaningful differences is that the neck on mine is .080" longer to facilitate the longer bullets with them not going into the powder room. The throating is also proportionately longer.
The large number of non American cars on California freeways is the result of leaving the door open for Toyota, Honda , Datson and the ilk by not competing with quality and price back in the early 80s. The effort put into diesel cars at that time created by marketing also added to the already adverse situation.Besides , do you believe that the parts in the American cars and cars themselves are made here in the states ?? Another side to this is the number of foreign auto makers who have assembly plants here in the USA employing thousands of citizens.
Golly! I haven't been this verbose in many years. Thanks for the opportunity!
roger

To which I say, "What does it matter what the current fad, real or imagined, is as long as young shooters are buying and shooting them?"As for the 6.5s; here I see ten times more 6.5 Creedmoors than any other 6.5.. It is clearly not a short term fad; it is here to stay for several reasons.
As for the wood stock thing, I was merely pointing out that gun companies make what sells, not what does not.
Maybe things are different where you are.

I don't see anything the 6.5 Creedmoor will do that our tried and true 270s won't. 150g Partition at 3000 fps with very little recoil seems hard to beat in the lower 48.

The 30-06 is my GO-TO caliber and rifle...

I've taken a heard of deer with it over the years, as well as some plains game..

Are there other cartridge that are more accurate? certainly.
Are there certain cartridges that may have greater reach? Of course.
Are there cartridges that recoil less, or more than the 06? Yep
Are any of these other cartridges available almost EVERYWHERE? think the local hardware store.. Nope
Do any of these cartridges kill game any deader than the 06? Nope. dead is dead.

All that being said, I'll still add other calibers to my collection as the mood strikes me, but if someone says "Let's go hunting..." i'll grab my 06

Well at the range today the range master and I were discussing The 6.5 Creedmore.He let me know that they've been showing up in fair numbers and he's been seeing more and more of them every month. I stand corrected. roger

I belong to a 6,000 member club.. been a member there since I was 17 and now I'm an old geezer..

I scrap the brass that is left in the "brass buckets" at each shooting station (14 ofthem) every weekend..

so here is my assessment based on what I'm finding..

270 seems to be the most found brass. .223 would be 2nd. 30-06 third, then 30-30, 308 followed by 243 then 7 Mag.. I think in the last 12 months, I haven't found more than 30 rounds of 6.5 anything.. probably less than 20 7x57 and 7/08's too..

Now this is only discarded brass... no tellin what got scrounged up before I showed up and no tellin how many guys are reloading..

Pa. Frank. That really is some interesting info. At our range the three biggies are .223, .308 and 7.62x39 which are mostly steel cases. Just from my observations the majority of the rifles are semi auto( military appearance ). Even many older folks are going semi auto.It'll be interesting to see what effects there will be from the new laws this coming year.
roger

This is for Biebs - I just bought a Blaser in 6.5 Creedmore and it is going to Africa next year.....

Yea baby!!!

quote:

Originally posted by chuck375:
I don't see anything the 6.5 Creedmoor will do that our tried and true 270s won't. 150g Partition at 3000 fps with very little recoil seems hard to beat in the lower 48.

Or a .257 Roberts at 2,800 fps.

quote:

Originally posted by dogcat:
This is for Biebs - I just bought a Blaser in 6.5 Creedmore and it is going to Africa next year.....

Yea baby!!!

My R8 shoots .25 inch MOA groups.

My k95 should be in this week.

It’s an awesome caliber.

Mike

quote:

Originally posted by bartsche:
Pa. Frank. That really is some interesting info. At our range the three biggies are .223, .308 and 7.62x39 which are mostly steel cases. Just from my observations the majority of the rifles are semi auto( military appearance ). Even many older folks are going semi auto.It'll be interesting to see what effects there will be from the new laws this coming year.
roger

Bartsche:
I should have stated I only take BRASS... my scrap dealer doesn't want and won't accept the steel cases.. but what i usually see for steel cases in the buckets is 223, 7.62x39, and a few 308 and some Russian rimmed cases (copper washed/plated)

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
These fads are encouraged by the manufacturers.

A while back I had a friend come here and asked me to build him a 300 BLACKOUT.

I had to persuade him out of it, because brass is difficult to get.

In our discussion, I mentioned that I can make a 30/223, which for all intents and purposes would be the same, but brass is easier to get.

He said no, he wanted a Blackout.

I built him.

Then decided to build a new wildcat, a 30/223, for myself on a Sako action.

I did, and it shot great.

I can shoot mine any time, he is still trying to get ammo for his!

It's awfully easy to make 300 blackout brass from ,
.223.