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Has anyone had the chance to own both. How do they compare? I purchased a new model last fall in .270 and shot two deer this last season and like the feel,and accuracy, much better than other rifles I have owned. I've owned Savage, Tikka, and Marlin and the Winchester just feels and looks best and the quality of fit and finish is impeccable. I think I've found my lifelong love. Please let me know how you all like yours. Have you had any remarkable times with it when hunting? | ||
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I have owned both. I sold all of my pre-64's as they were not as accurate or as well built as the new M70's out of South Carolina. I have 4 and each shoot sub MOA. The new trigger is excellent. My gunsmith said the new M70 compares very favorably to the Dakota 76 in terms of quality. I have a super grade in .270 that I have yet to fire, but look forward to it. Also, I talked to the Hill Country Rifle folks about their opinion on the new M70's. They said they were very solid and had no problems with them. | |||
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While I am pleased that the M70 is back and still made in the USA a few of the new ones that I have seen had a heavy bolt lift with the firing pin down and all of them have noisy-difficult to operate safeties. I have a few of the old M70's and there is no way I would trade one of them for a new one but if you like your gun that's what counts. | |||
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I'ver owned classics, push feeds, pre-64s and one from the new American plant. The latest one is the best of all. Let me also say that I've read many posts about the new M-70 and not one of them negative by someone that actually owns one..... /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Winston Churchill | |||
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The total rag P-64s don't compare very well to the First Class M-70s being made by FN. The S.C. made rifles are at least 10x better than the old YANKEE ones. If you all could have seen the Prints they were working from in YANKEE Land in Production, and then compared them to the Prints being used in S.C., it would be much easier for you to understand. Best of luck with the "new" M-70s.  | |||
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I bought my first M70 new in 1957. I got the Varmint model in 243 with a blued 26" SS barrel, sporter monte carlo walnut stock and steel butt plate. I used that rifle for both chuck hunting and the big bore league where we shot from the 4 positions at 200 yds with irons The rifle is fine machinery and accurate. I wore the barrel out and a friend sold me a new barrel for the rifle in 220 Swift and its on there now. Back in the 60's I switched to the 40X for those matches. Since my Mausers, Brno's, Kimbers, Remington 40X's, Sauers, and old Winchesters are accurate, reliable and better machinery than a SC/FN M70 I have no interest in one. I have better guns!  Original Pre-64 M-70 Featherweight in .358 Win. ============================================== There are many guns that I would not own. I only need to look at them and handle them. Since I have also owned the so called "Classic" m70's I know some of them. They are not in my view worth bothering with if you already have a complete battery of pre 64 M70's. I also feel that the 21H and 22F Brno's are better made rifles than the new SC 70's. They have workmanship, finish and cache that I see as superior. The Kimbers are true Lightweights and don't have pressed on bolt handles like the SC M70's. My 40X's are target rifles and the current M70 can't be compared with mere words on the same page as a Sauer. I am pleased that the M70 is made again. If you like them then that pleases me as well. | |||
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Beautiful stock on that pre-64 winchester C.F. I hope mine looks that good in as many years. I am glad to know that the new S. Carolina winchesters are as consistantly good as the one I have. Hopefully it's a new day for the ole Rifleman's Rifle.  | |||
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The pre-64s had what I consider a somewhat clunky stock, and the hump in the barrel. I cannot say whether the pre-64 safety was quieter than the new 70 safety, but the three-position safety on my South Carolina .375 H&H is a bit noisier than I like. That's my only complaint. Trigger is excellent and it is accurate. There is hope, even when your brain tells you there isn’t. – John Green, author | |||
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I've got 2 pre 64 model 70s, .270 and .243. Both are great rifles, but the stocks and feel aren't what I would like for them to be. I also have 2 of the new Model 70 Extreme Weather, .308, and 7mm-08. The 2 new guns are great, and shoot at least as good as the pre 64s. The safety is a little loose, but operates fine, and is not noisy at all. I think Winchester is back on the board, and is one of the best American made production rifles you can buy. The Extreme Weather is a great gun for those who can tolerate stainless and composit stocks. I love hunting with them. No worries!  | |||
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The p64 stocks are what my grandpa would refer to as "Crookeder than a dog's hind leg". They have too much drop at the heel for me. I have restocked mine. If FN is doing right and is making these on good machinery, I can't imagine that the new ones would not be better. BUT I aint trading mine  Have gun- Will travel The value of a trophy is computed directly in terms of personal investment in its acquisition. Robert Ruark | |||
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My Winchester M70 featherweight is a .270 Win. What ammo shoots best in those guns you all own in the same caliber? New FN manufactured only. (factory or handloaded, either one) | |||
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130 grn. is the magic for the .270, and it will shoot several of them really good. I would try some Nosler Customs, 130 Accubond if you don't plan on reloading. Hornady 130 Interlock, or Interbonds would be a great choice also. For a quick pick up at most stores, you can go for a box of Remington Core-Lokt 130 grn. I would bet that any of these would shoot great right out of the box. All of them are proven hunting bullets. Good Luck! | |||
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 You can't make an assertion like that without owning one. I've owned or do own all the other models you refer to other than Mauser and Sauer and the new M70s hold their own with any of them. I agree with Vapo they are the best M70s ever. My SC made M70 Super Grade .300 Mag puts any pre-64 I've ever owned or shot to shame. I've never bought into the whole older is always better argument, if that was the case we'd all be driving Model Ts. | |||
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/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Winston Churchill | |||
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I have both a pre-64, .270 Win. and a new, Extreme Weather .270 WSM. My pre-64 was bubba'd up by the last owners so one of the things I had done was the installation of an H-S Precision stock. I know, H-S doesn't make one specifically for a pre-64, but I had my smith modify it and everything functions fine. It will put 150 gr. Partitions into an inch or slightly less with boring regularity. The only drawback I see is the weight - about 8 1/2 lbs. I'd guess. After a lot of frustration and wasted money spanning a number of years, I sold the POS .270 WSM last fall (my name for my Kimber MOntana). I then picked up a new Win. Extreme Weather just before it became too cold to really work with. Initial results however indicate that it's a shooter and will function fine. As of right now, it's over at the smith's to have a set of open sights out on for use as a backup. Our hunting trips are extended affairs and I prefer a backup system should something happen to my scope. I've always liked the Winchester platform so I'm admittedly partial. Just my thoughts. Bear in Fairbanks Unless you're the lead dog, the scenery never changes. I never thought that I'd live to see a President worse than Jimmy Carter. Well, I have. Gun control means using two hands. | |||
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Bear in Fairbanks, I wish that you would give your Kimber bashing a rest. Its boring and to me says that you can't figure out a rifle! Perhaps you just don't have the aptitude, tools or attention to detail. Thus give it a rest. It makes you look bad. I was in Fairbanks, AK a few summers ago and saw the sights in AK and visited some gunshops in AK. Alaska sure beats my New England for hunting. It might even beat NE for weather this Wednesday as we have another storm on the way.  | |||
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Now that is a funny post. After bad-mouthing a rifle that you have never owned and obviously know nothing about, you tell someone else THAT DOES HAVE HANDS ON EXPERIENCE to chill out. ROFLMAO!!! Aim for the exit hole | |||
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CR, two things for you: 1. freedom of speech. It's his experience with them. 2. he got a lemon. He can share that news. regards, Rich | |||
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wasbeeman, Your post is uninformed and wrong. I own five Kimber of NY rifles and they shoot well for me. I have also been to the Kimber plant in Yonkers. I do know something of the M70's made in SC. Just like other guns that I look at and would not buy that M70's falls into that group. As I explained above I have had many M70's since 1957 and overall I like them. | |||
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I dont think that anyone can deny that Kimber can build a lemon. I have several of the new model 70s and they all have been great. | |||
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Conservative Rifleman: Since my Mausers, Brno's, Kimbers, Remington 40X's, Sauers, and old Winchesters are accurate, reliable and better machinery than a SC/FN M70 I have no interest in one. I have better guns! QUOTE] I'm sorry. I said you didn't know anything about modern M70s. What I meant to say was you don't seem to know shit from peanut butter about anything. One can usually discern that when the poster trots out a laundry list of all the rifles he supposedly owns. You do have the insufferable prig routine down pat though. I guess that's something. But you have a nice day, hear. Maybe go rub your gun. Aim for the exit hole | |||
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wasbeeman, Your response is rude and out of line. I have the guns that I said I did and I can prove it. This topic has become a disappointment. To be frank I will not respond to you again but I will to others. Remember what DJ Paintless says: " Remember this is just for fun." | |||
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the pre 64s were good guns. they comanded a higher price then the early post guns and deserved to as the first post 64s werent much. The newer winchesters are nice guns and every bit as good or better then a pre 64. I never did understand why the prices on the pre 64s kept so high. The new ones are probably better and much better looking. | |||
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Rich it would seem CR has the same right Cold down here today SSR | |||
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I didn't think so! | |||
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Conservative Rifleman: wasbeeman, To be frank I will not respond to you again but I will to others. QUOTE] All right!! Now you're talking. Can I get that in writing? I'm sure the "others" are waiting with bated breath for your next set of gems. Aim for the exit hole | |||
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Consider this. When a post is made that another member does not agree with they can, of course, rebut it. When the response is just profanity and insults then that person proves that they cannot argue the facts. To reduce what should be a fun and pleasant discussion of the guns that we like so much to dirty words is a waste. On the FN M70 the facts that I presented were that the safeties on every one of them that I handled was rough to operate and noisy on let off. The old ones are much better. I also found a heavy bolt lift on two of them. I mentioned this to the dealer. My comment that I have no interest in the FN M70 and that (in my opinion) i have better guns stands.  | |||
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First of all, you don't know me or my abilities from a post hole. Secondly, The POS was not only checked out by me for the obvoius problems but was sent to Hill Country for them to do the voodoo that they do. Then, after that didn't work out, another trip down to a well known smith in the Lower-48 for his analysis/work. A brand new Lilja barrel still didn't solve the problem either. I've been shooting for a fair number of years so think I have an idea of what I'm doing. Put me on "Ignore" if ya want, I could care less. Bear in Fairbanks Unless you're the lead dog, the scenery never changes. I never thought that I'd live to see a President worse than Jimmy Carter. Well, I have. Gun control means using two hands. | |||
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This guy used to post on 24Hr. as to how crappy the Brno 21/22 series rifles were/are and how "his" specimens thereof would jam when feeding the factory chambered 57MM Mauser rounds. He usually opined that P-64-70s were/ are far superior rifles to these Brnos and bashed anyone who disagreed with his "expertise". I have quite a few P-64s, owned 42 of them since 1968 and also have several Brno 21/22 rifles, plus some ZG-47s and many other classic rifles, have had well over 100 since 1964 and carried them to use as tools in my employment all over BC and wilderness regions of Alberta. I find his mewling to be ludicrous and he has NO real wilderness hunting/living/working experience, he is simply an elderly New Englander with a rather obvious fantasy life..... Very simply, as someone on 24Hr. told him 3-4 years ago, he is a ...tower of ignorance where rifles are concerned...and he always whines about other poster's comments after he makes one of his inane and ignorant posts. He is, as I usually do, best ignored and pitied. I have carefully examined about two dozen different Kimber Mod. 84s and 8400s and would not own one as a gift....but, I learned what I know about rifles in a real life environment, not by shooting Woodchucks in suburbia...... Good comments, Bear, I totally concur. | |||
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Done dat!/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Winston Churchill | |||
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+1 I agree. The gunsmith Mark Penrod has told me several times that in his opinion the new M70 CRF actions, both New Haven and SC, are much better than the pre-64s ever were. Better steel, better heat treating, and better machining according to him. They're definitely better looking, I've yet to see a pre-64 receiver that didn't look like it had been polished with a sand blaster prior to bluing. | |||
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Some interesting information about the P-64s that might not be known by the younger shooters: One of the reasons the P-64 was such a good rifle was because Winchester's machinery was so old, and out dated, and worn that each assembler had to keep a box of assorted parts on his bench and he would sort thru there looking for something that would fit or come close. Then he would file and shape the part into place. So, basically, you were getting a hand made custom rifle. Which was good for you. Unless, like cars, you got one that was made on monday morning or friday evening.  And they were a helluva bargain. The P-64 was never profitable. They were sold at a loss so they could stay competitive with Remington and Savage. But they were Winchester's flagship and so they were kept. What really kept Winchester afloat was military contracts and cowboy movies with the model 94. As far as the P-64 being "smoother" than any contempory rifle, when the current models have been used and cycled for 50 years, I daresay they'll be pretty slick too. Aim for the exit hole | |||
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CR, are you not known on 24Hr. as "Savage 99" and you posted that a Brno 22F in 8x57js which you own would not feed rounds properly and then several other posters took you to task for your foolish comments? If, not, all I can say is that you certainly seem to have the very same rifles as the guy I refer to posted photos of......and, identical opinions. As to your ...57 years..., big deal, I have been active in the BC outdoors for 58 years as a fisherman and shooting for 53 years...and, frankly, you impress me as much as you do "Bear in Fairbanks" and, I suspect, for the same reasons. | |||
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I owned a Kimber ONCE and for a very SHORT length of time. IMO they suck hind tit. Kimber makes Kimber look bad.   It's about come out of the forend!     If owned a few Winchesters too. Some of the old pre-64's were nice rifles. A LOT of them weren't and legacy is the only thing that keeps thier value up. I've only handled a couple of the new FN SC. built rifles but have never shot one. I do hope they're better than some of Winchester's previous offerings. I really liked the "Classic" when they first came out. The quality seemed to go down hill fast though. Terry -------------------------------------------- Well, other than that Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play? | |||
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Conservative Rifleman=Savage99  I should have known  -------------------------------------------- Well, other than that Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play? | |||
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CR, why don't YOU copy the posts you refer to as you are the one here stating that others do not know anything about rifles. The preponderance of opinion here seems to agree with what "Bear" and I have said about you and I see no valid reason why you do not tell us if you are "Savage 99"...are you ashamed of your previous comments? | |||
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I'm sure he is Savage99. I recognize the kitchen cabnets  Terry -------------------------------------------- Well, other than that Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play? | |||
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The bolt on my model 70 S.C. is very smooth and no problem with bolt lift being stiff. Actually it is a tad bit smoother than the Tikka I had previously. The safety is somewhat stiff when putting it on safe but is smooth going off safe. This is not the first CRF rifle I have owned, I also had a CZ in .223 and had alot of working of the bolt to get it to smooth out and it never got as smooth as the model 70 out of the box. Thanks for your opinions on the pre-64 Win. So far the Win. 130 gr. power-max bonded have shot very well. The two deer I shot last season, I used the federal premium 130 gr. Barnes TSX, they were nearly as accurate and did a great job on both deer. I'm trying to find a cheaper factory round to target shoot with. Thanks again for the great responses. | |||
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