I've been a big fan of A-Frames and Northforks as bullets for hunting big game....and by that I mean animals that dress out at 500 pounds or more. Typically this is elk and moose and plains game and maybe caribou.

Lately I've been doing a quite a bit of long range investigation and I'm finding that the Accubond may be the better carrier of energy for the longer distances.....and while Hornady's interbond also has great ballistic coefficients, they are not made in the heavier weights nor in as many calibers and weights as the accubond.

It's now looking like the Accubond is actually a better choice than the infamous A-Frames and Northforks simply because there is no such thing as deader and the Accubonds have a significant advantage in range.

What say you.....agree or disagree.....?

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:
Lately I've been doing a quite a bit of long range investigation and I'm finding that the Accubond may be the better carrier of energy for the longer distances.....and while Hornady's interbond also has great ballistic coefficients, they are not made in the heavier weights nor in as many calibers and weights as the accubond.

It's now looking like the Accubond is actually a better choice than the infamous A-Frames and Northforks simply because there is no such thing as deader and the Accubonds have a significant advantage in range.

What say you.....agree or disagree.....?

I agree in most instances.

Too bad the Interbond is limited as far as choices or I would not even consider the Accubond. The Interbond is IMO a far superior bullet as far as terminal performance. At least in my 280 loaded to 3100+ fps W/139-140gr pills

A far as extending the range?

The current bonded polymer tipped bullets are a win/win situation. You get superior down range energy W/flatter trajectory that slightly increase margine for error as far as precise bullet placement. The bonded design eliminates any core sepertation issue if/when a close range, high impact velocity shot presents itself.

I run all my loads over a chronograph & then use the BC to calculate the maximum + or - PBR via "Quick Target" using 2 1/2" for varmint calibers, 3" for deer sized game & would probably use 4" for Elk sized game or perhaps mule deer @ extremely long range. (if I had accurate range finding gear)

I'm kinda on the fence between Parttions & Accubonds for my 8X57 as the extra length of the Accubonds lower the Mv to such an extent that there is no real advantage in such a short cartridge. At least over the limited (300 yd) range capabilities it is geared to. The AB are a bit cheaper though & I will try them. I may just go W/195gr Interlocks for cost effectiveness. At the 2730 fps Mv of my 8X57 handlods, a traditional C&C bullet will probably suffice.. If Nosler made a 200gr Ballistic Tip in .323, I would prefer that over the Accubond up to 3000 fps Mv.

Any replacement for the .323 200gr Partition WILL have to = the spectacular (as far as W/the re-worked military bbl) sub 1/2" 100 yd accuracy of the Partition.

I'm sticking W/the 139gr .284 Interbond in my 280. The bullet pictured in my avatar is just such a bullet & it made a believer out of me.

quote:

What say you.....agree or disagree.....?

I would agree but I don't use any magnums so the Accubond is about as "premium" as I would ever need.

I use accubond in my rifle now and are still happy with it 165gr .308w.

For close range a semi pointed or roundnose bullet are better for brush and straight penetration. Norma oryx is the most popular biggame bullet here premium still not so expensive made for european demands.

Interesting topic. Am finding the older I become the more I back off the expensive "super premium bullets". This could be a result of using more calibers that hit with moderate velocities instead of the super wiz bang magnums.

Hornady interlocks or DGX, Nosler partition seconds (huge fan-stock up when you see them on sale), and the occassional Woodleigh for my Chapuis. They all work well for any animal I hunt in NA including moose and grizzlies and shoot better than I can under field conditions.

I switched to Accubonds a couple years ago in everything I use no mater what the size.

Great penetration in elk and less meat damage in antelope and deer.

scottfromdallas--You don't need magnums shooting penned up deer do you?

Carpetman1

for PUD, not me
Not while I got a hammer.
GWB

PS:
feel better now?

While a devout user of the X and, since, the TSX with Partitions thrown in the mix prior I will use the Accubond for the first time on a grizzly hunt coming spring. The 225 gr is grouping well inside 1/2" in my 338-06.

i guess the flood of new premium bullets will slow when people get back to understanding that bullet placement is much more important then bullet construction and that theres very few animals on earth that cant be taken cleanly with standard bullets. To many people think they can throw out there credit card and buy themselves into being a better rifleman.

Long range shooting/hunting requires a high ballistic coefficient to retain that velocity/energy over distance to the accubond would be a huge improvement over your previous choices. I think we get caught up beating a dead horse in regards to who makes the best bullet.

With proper placement inferior bullets kill just like premium bullets so lets leave placement as a given.

To be effective a bullet must penetrate the animal, severe vital tissues and the quicker it does it the faster that animal expires. This is fact not fiction so obviously these quicker expanding bullets have merit.

The argument has been that they expand to quickly and are unable to reach the vitals because of bone or other obstruction breaks up the bullet to much and this is also true. A solution to this issue is using a higher sectional density bullet.

Nosler has offered the perfect combination with the Accubond. It has a higher B.C. for longer range capability, a bonded core that helps hold the core and jacket together and quick expansion. We now have a ballistic tip bullet that should offer us the confidence to take elk or larger game with the same effectiveness as the old solid base BT on whitetails.

I don't see any practical gain for whitetail size game but I do see it for larger critters.

quote:

Originally posted by Captain Finlander:

Nosler has offered the perfect combination with the Accubond. It has a higher B.C. for longer range capability, a bonded core that helps hold the core and jacket together and quick expansion. We now have a ballistic tip bullet that should offer us the confidence to take elk or larger game with the same effectiveness as the old solid base BT on whitetails.

I don't see any practical gain for whitetail size game but I do see it for larger critters.

My issue W/the Acubond is that the nose breaks up & sheds the "petals".

This feature is acknowleged by Nosler & said to increase penetration by not presenting a large mushroom that would (in their theory) impeed penetration.

WTF? I always thought that a large musroom shape was what one wanted for deep tissue destruction.

The Hornady Interbond does not shed it's petals & retains more weight than the Accubond.

I have 1st hand experience in the terminal performance of both the Nosler 140gr Accubond in .284 & the Hornady 139gr Interbond in the same caliber. While I have not lost a deer that was hit W/either, the pass through hits W/the Accubond make a small exit would & generally do not give as good a blood trail as the Interbond that does result in a large exit wound & adequate blood trail when a pass through is achieved.

IMO, the Ballistic tip is a better bullet than the Accubond when not exceeding 3000 fps impact velocity on thin skinned, lightly built game.

The Interbond is, in my experience, superior to either under all circumstances. It has more margine for error.

Way back before there were "premium" bullets if a fella needed more reliable knockdown from a bullet, he simply got a bigger one.

Personaly, I could do just fine running on that simple principle TODAY!

If I had a major Africa trip or brown bear hunt in mind I might actualy find a need for a so called "premium" bullet. But until that happens Im just fine with the boring old lead core slugs..

Seems like everyone thinks that their bullets are "premium" now.

I have to admit though, I do like Accubonds for Elk loads. BT's for deer too. They are hands down more accurate than plain jane slugs Ive been using for decades. No matter what load is used or what rifle I shoot them from. That is a huge plus in my book. It has simplified the process of load developing for me in a big way.

wstrnhunter--Yes premium bullets are a must. A premium bullet is one that is accurate enough to be placed where you want it to go. Place bullet in animals vitals and the fun is over--you need a sharp knife for the next stage.

quote:

Originally posted by Wstrnhuntr:
Way back before there were "premium" bullets if a fella needed more reliable knockdown from a bullet, he simply got a bigger one.

Personaly, I could do just fine running on that simple principle TODAY! *** Partial

X2 !If velocities over 3000 fps are really needed Something better than a good cup and core might be a benefit.
For most game up to the size of elk, a premium bullet is a solution to a problem that doesn't exist when you are below 3000 fps in a sensible caliber with an adequate weight bullet. roger

X3 If your bullet is going over 3000fps, you need more bullet, not more speed.

I think like has been mentioned that too many folks use the so called "premium" bullets to make up for shooting skills. Thinking that this or that newer bullet will penetrate from one end to the other no matter what is in between.

I'm also getting more and more inclined to load rounds which carry the older traditional C&C bullets simply due to how well they do drop game and how much cheaper they are to begin with.

Don't get me wrong I feel there is a place for some higher priced top end bullets, like in my 25-06 AI or similar rounds which are set up primarily for longer range hunting, and then you have something step out at 30yds. This is where I most feel the Partitions and copper types are at their best. High velocity impact at close range.

The Accubond has show to me anyway that it will blow up on a close shot, however I don't use them in anything above .277 or at muzzle velocities under 3100fps.

quote:

Am finding the older I become the more I back off the expensive "super premium bullets". This could be a result of using more calibers that hit with moderate velocities instead of the super wiz bang magnums.

quote:

I guess the flood of new premium bullets will slow when people get back to understanding that bullet placement is much more important then bullet construction and that there is very few animals on earth that can't be taken cleanly with standard bullets.

quote:

For most game up to the size of elk, a premium bullet is a solution to a problem that doesn't exist when you are below 3000 fps in a sensible caliber with an adequate weight bullet.

quote:

X3 If your bullet is going over 3000fps, you need more bullet, not more speed

quote:

I'm also getting more and more inclined to load rounds which carry the older traditional C&C bullets simply due to how well they do drop game and how much cheaper less expensive they are to begin with.

I consider myself to be in the same Boat as the Fellows above who have offered some pretty compelling statements concerning "standard Cup & Core" & "Super Premium Bullets".

I appreciate good components when assembling loads that must meet my own criteria for;
1. Making better ammunition,
2. at a better price than I can obtain on the Store Shelves,
3. that shoot well & provide solid peformance in MY rifles,
4. for the Task at Hand.

It raises my hackles when I hear the Holy Grail of it's JUST gotta be that XXX bullet beacause nothing else (appears to) work/function .... fine; I use a complete pallette and array of different bullets for their intended purposes.

Yeah, the several Magnums I load for tend to premium bullets (rest assured; a Nosler Partition IS a Premium bullet and has been since it's conception .....) and "standard" cartridges just keep on trucking with vanilla-flavored Cup & Core bullets.

I use quite a few brands:
Barnes, X (yeah, still have some .....), TSX, TTSX, MRX
CT - Ballistic Silvertips
Speer - TNT's, Hot Core's,
Sierra - Match Kings, Game Kings
Swift - Scirocco II's
RWS - J/M, TIG's
Nosler - Ballistic Tips, Accubonds & Partitions
Hornady - Interlocks, Interbonds,
Norma - (they're so old the didn't even have fancy marketing names when they were manufactured)
Privi-Partisan - Grom (= Hammer in Serbian)
Remington - Core-Lokt
Winchester - Silvertips (still have supply of these, too)
probably not a comprehensive list .... and they all have their place in the Grand-Scheme of Things.

wildcat junkie, I disagree. I have never seen an Interbond, but from your description they work a lot like the Oryx and Fusion bullets, and they penetrate sigificantly less than Accubonds and a few others. I prefer the bigger chance of an exitwound than the chance of a bigger one if I get one. I also prefer the added penetration for bad angles at wounded game. There are of course a lot of other very good options out there.

For me it would be unthinkable to shell out $9,000 on a moose or elk hunt and then take off with a box of Federal sure shocks in the suitcase.

Up until recently the "go to" bullet has been the A-Frame for "high stakes hunts". Lately the Accubond is offering me a high quality bonded bullet and something the A-Frames don't.....a very high Ballistic coefficient.

Granted the high BC don't mean much out to 250-300 yards but it's there in case it's called for and I'm able to use it.

It's looking more and more that once I've purchased a bonded bullet the additional gains of other (spendy) bullets are quite questionable.

Sooner or later there's a point to which we are no longer gaining anything in terms of performance or reliability.

I was once asked "At what point in the animal's death did the bullet fail"? My reply is that it was at the point that it run over that ridge after being hit and down hill another three hundred yards that I had to pack him back from!

Yes, I know that using a super premium is no guarantee of this never happening.....but there's more to life than just killing the animal. That said....it's beginning to look like the laws of diminishing returns take over quickly after one has purchased a bonded bullet.

For the guy that says...."I can do the same thing with a Remington Core Lokt".....I offer no argument at all. They served the former generation quite well.

A good thread.

I see no reason ever not to use a premium bullet.
"Cost"? Pardonnez-moi, but how many shots do you fire per season? How much a difference can a few cents in bullet price make?

Granted, a traditional bullet will work - they have for more than a hundred years.
However, if you can improve the performace without any disadvantage, why wouldn't you?
I strongly agree with Wildcat Junkie on this point!
BTW - I have had absolutely sterling performance in my 8,2x53R using 200grs AccuBonds, and the accuracy is beyond comparison (for all intents and purposes it's ballistically identical to the 8mm Mauser). However - trying three other bullets I have not seen poor accuracy with any. That is 1" groups @ 100 meters. To put things in perspective my cousin loaded some 8,2x523Rs with the 200grs AccuBonds and they were all over the place!

I want to have a "one size fits all" load that performs well from roe to moose, wild boar and bear. That's a tall order.
The best so far for me have been the AccuBonds, but I have yet to try the TSX and Partition. Also I have not been able to shoot anything but cardboard with the Rhino Solid Shanks.

I wonder if one could safely argue that over time, we will only have premium bullets in the sense that the traditional cup and core bullets will vanish?
It occurs to me that there are so many good bullets on the market and people are so universally pleased with the premium bullets that fankly I'm a bit surprised still to see the traditional bullets not hang on but go strong!

To Mike Tx I wish to say that I hope you're wrong! I certainly hope that no-one expects that the bullet will compensate for good shots. Alas, I'm afraid you're right... The flip side of the coin is that a premium bullet can give you a good trophy even if the angle is bad or, better yet, might enable you to make a killing shot on an animal that has previously been wounded. That I consider is a real benefit (albeit one should always strive for good shots at favourable shooting angles).

Finally, if this seems like a paid advert to the AccuBonds, it isn't. I'm merely saying I have had good results with them and my rifle likes them.

- Lars/Finland

The old "it's only a few pennies more" argument sounds good on the surface and if a fellow is a confirmed box a year shooter, it's a valid point. But, if a fellow does enough practice during the year to stay sharp, he's gonna shoot a lot of ammo. Then the few pennies can turn into some serious cash.
When I started going west of the big river to hunt, all of my ammo was loaded with premium bullets. --BTW, To me, the NP and Grand Slams are premium bullets-- I must say, however, that I never killed a single head of BG that wouldn't have been just as dead had I been using a standard bullet.
When someone tells me that bullet BR-549 will out penetrate all others, and I'm already getting two holes in everything I shoot, what are we discussing?? That his bullet will go further than mine after it passes through the animal??
A fellow ought to shoot whatever bullet he wants to but IMO, it's hard to "justify" shooting a collie sized WT with a primo bullet that's designed to go through an engine block.
The exception would be the light for calibre boys that like to drive their bullets at some sort of boyhowdylookwhatIcando veleocity. Those guys need all the help they can get.

quote:

Originally posted by wasbeeman:
The old "it's only a few pennies more" argument sounds good on the surface and if a fellow is a confirmed box a year shooter, it's a valid point. But, if a fellow does enough practice during the year to stay sharp, he's gonna shoot a lot of ammo. Then the few pennies can turn into some serious cash.

Yea - but why wouldn't you then shoot cheap practice ammo on the range?
I do, at less than half the cost.
Loaded to hit the same point of impact, of course (although on the range that matters little).

quote:

When I started going west of the big river to hunt, all of my ammo was loaded with premium bullets. --BTW, To me, the NP and Grand Slams are premium bullets-- I must say, however, that I never killed a single head of BG that wouldn't have been just as dead had I been using a standard bullet.

Won't argue that.

quote:

When someone tells me that bullet BR-549 will out penetrate all others, and I'm already getting two holes in everything I shoot, what are we discussing?? That his bullet will go further than mine after it passes through the animal??

quote:

A fellow ought to shoot whatever bullet he wants to but IMO, it's hard to "justify" shooting a collie sized WT with a primo bullet that's designed to go through an engine block.

Point taken and to me this was the first really sensible argument against a premium bullet.
My viewpoint is one bullet for all, but that's a different ballgame so no argument here, either.

quote:

The exception would be the light for calibre boys that like to drive their bullets at some sort of boyhowdylookwhatIcando veleocity. Those guys need all the help they can get.

Won't argue that one, either....
Seems we got no real argument here, Wasbeeman. Try writing something else.

- Lars/Finland

Use whatever works and floats your boat but if they contain *LEAD* they'll be legislated off the market eventually. (sooner than you think)

Schauckis, RE; your point about using cheap, practice ammo. Exactly! That is what I do and what I recommend. But many folks maintain you should shoot the same bullet year around.
My points weren't directed neccarily at you but at the folks that do little shooting and gain most of their info by reading the hype put out by the ammo companes themselves. That doesn't keep them from making posts that sound as if they just came back from a 6 month trek.
Or they make lofty statements to the effect of "I have issues with bullet XYZ" or "bullet ABC is slightly softer then bullet DEF" and when you ask them what methodology they used or to expand on their "issues", they don't re-post.

quote:

Originally posted by wasbeeman:
The old "it's only a few pennies more" argument sounds good on the surface and if a fellow is a confirmed box a year shooter, it's a valid point. But, if a fellow does enough practice during the year to stay sharp, he's gonna shoot a lot of ammo. Then the few pennies can turn into some serious cash.
When I started going west of the big river to hunt, all of my ammo was loaded with premium bullets. --BTW, To me, the NP and Grand Slams are premium bullets-- I must say, however, that I never killed a single head of BG that wouldn't have been just as dead had I been using a standard bullet.
When someone tells me that bullet BR-549 will out penetrate all others, and I'm already getting two holes in everything I shoot, what are we discussing?? That his bullet will go further than mine after it passes through the animal?? A fellow ought to shoot whatever bullet he wants to but IMO, it's hard to "justify" shooting a collie sized WT with a primo bullet that's designed to go through an engine block. The exception would be the light for calibre boys that like to drive their bullets at some sort of boyhowdylookwhatIcando veleocity. Those guys need all the help they can get.

Premium bullets are great and needed...but not for those box a year people. There is alot of hype and alot of comparisons " mine shoots through a jeep" "Oh yeah well mine shoots through a grape AND then through a jeep!" What premium bullets have done is given the handloader (and factory shooter)a choice of cheap and effective to spendy and precision. All are effective if properly placed, but isn't it nice to have a choice. By nature we (handloaders & riflemen)are particular about what we like to shoot as seen by all of the conversation about 223s & deer. It's the concept of PREMIUM that has allowed the opportunity to have such discussions. Can you imagine how boring this place would be if we were still arguing over the 30-30 VS 30-40 Krag both with cast bullets of course. They are invaluable to deer hunting, and elk hunting, and bear hunting and so on.

quote:

Originally posted by Schauckis:
A good thread.

I see no reason ever not to use a premium bullet.
"Cost"? Pardonnez-moi, but how many shots do you fire per season? How much a difference can a few cents in bullet price make?

Well considering I hunted from the first weekend in October up to mid December with my bow, I only managed to put a little over 150 rounds through my rifles and handguns. Granted 99% of these were used on feral hogs, but still it was a slow season also. Not every shot was a hit, but I don't hold that against the ammo, that was all on me and my new bi-focals. Yep they will screw ya in a hurry.

quote:

Granted, a traditional bullet will work - they have for more than a hundred years.
However, if you can improve the performace without any disadvantage, why wouldn't you?
I strongly agree with Wildcat Junkie on this point! BTW - I have had absolutely sterling performance in my 8,2x53R using 200grs AccuBonds, and the accuracy is beyond comparison (for all intents and purposes it's ballistically identical to the 8mm Mauser). However - trying three other bullets I have not seen poor accuracy with any. That is 1" groups @ 100 meters. To put things in perspective my cousin loaded some 8,2x523Rs with the 200grs AccuBonds and they were all over the place!

I want to have a "one size fits all" load that performs well from roe to moose, wild boar and bear. That's a tall order.
The best so far for me have been the AccuBonds, but I have yet to try the TSX and Partition. Also I have not been able to shoot anything but cardboard with the Rhino Solid Shanks.

I won't argue with your reasoning, I shot only the 115gr Nosler Partition in my 25-06 for close to 10 years. It simply worked. I used it on everything from skunks to a Colorado 250+ pound mule deer with equal success, I put the cross hair where I wanted it to hit and it did the rest. But over the past 10 or so years, I have been working hard on the feral hog population on my property as well as two properties of my friend. With never ending numbers of them seeming to arrive weekly, we DO indeed shoot quite a bit more than the average shooter.

quote:

To Mike Tx I wish to say that I hope you're wrong! I certainly hope that no-one expects that the bullet will compensate for good shots. Alas, I'm afraid you're right... The flip side of the coin is that a premium bullet can give you a good trophy even if the angle is bad or, better yet, might enable you to make a killing shot on an animal that has previously been wounded. That I consider is a real benefit (albeit one should always strive for good shots at favourable shooting angles).

Well I cannot say for absolute certain that this is the case, but it seems to be more and more often. I see many who post things like, "well I use this because if I have only a fleeting chance of hitting the thing I want to know I can put it through from one end to the other," or "I have hit several with raking shots that had I NOT been using "XXXX" bullets, I would have never considered that shot"

Might just be the way I was raised or taught or learned on my own, but when I pull the trigger on a game animal or even a feral hog for that matter, I try to do everything in my power to ensure a killing shot first and foremost. I have no issues what so ever walking away from a hunt knowing I could have shot, but CHOSE not to, even if I were looking at the biggest of whatever I had ever seen. But thats just me.

quote:

Finally, if this seems like a paid advert to the AccuBonds, it isn't. I'm merely saying I have had good results with them and my rifle likes them.

- Lars/Finland

I will not again argue with the results form the Accubond. It has been a great bullet for several calibers I shoot. However, I simply cannot afford to shoot them just because they are Accubonds, and for the critters I chase, they are not needed but in a few cases of the smaller caliber faster thing. They are what I load for my daughter now that she is the proud owner of the pre mentioned 25-06. She has used it along with her oldest son to take some very nice deer, hogs and coyotes at pretty respectable distances. But there again, they were both brought up under me and how I hunt, they neither will take a shot that is not going to put the bullet through the vitals in the shortest path, and they neither will shoot one more than half way back on the ribs on a quartering shot. If I, or they, have to pass on the shot, we consider ourselves lucky enough to have been a witness to the quarry we sought after and have enough respect for it, to let it walk away till another time.

I am finding great results with "standard" bullets also. That said, if I was hunting stuff that bites back, I would pay attention to bullet construction. I don't think I would chase brown bears with accubonds, but I am sure if you put it where it needs to go, you're all set.

Premiums really aren't needed at all for deer. If you are talking elk or African game it probably depends where you live. The guy that lives in Elk country or Africa is probably less likely to use premium.

The guy paying $8,000 to travel on a paid hunt probably wants all the insurance he can have. At that expense, spending extra on premium seems like a wise investment.

I can see your point but its no differnt to say if your going on a 9k hunt for moose why use a smaller gun that needs a premium bullet. Why not just pick up something like a 338 that is more then capable of taking any moose with a cup and core bullet. To me a 9k hunt would surely be an excuse for a new gun anyway. Im not saying premium bullets dont work. My point was that they are secondary in importance to putting a decent bullet in the right spot and a 30 buck for a box of a 100 bullets will surely let you practice more often and cheaper then a 60 dollar for 50 box of premiums.

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:
For me it would be unthinkable to shell out $9,000 on a moose or elk hunt and then take off with a box of Federal sure shocks in the suitcase.

Up until recently the "go to" bullet has been the A-Frame for "high stakes hunts". Lately the Accubond is offering me a high quality bonded bullet and something the A-Frames don't.....a very high Ballistic coefficient.

Granted the high BC don't mean much out to 250-300 yards but it's there in case it's called for and I'm able to use it.

It's looking more and more that once I've purchased a bonded bullet the additional gains of other (spendy) bullets are quite questionable.

Sooner or later there's a point to which we are no longer gaining anything in terms of performance or reliability.

I was once asked "At what point in the animal's death did the bullet fail"? My reply is that it was at the point that it run over that ridge after being hit and down hill another three hundred yards that I had to pack him back from!

Yes, I know that using a super premium is no guarantee of this never happening.....but there's more to life than just killing the animal. That said....it's beginning to look like the laws of diminishing returns take over quickly after one has purchased a bonded bullet.

For the guy that says...."I can do the same thing with a Remington Core Lokt".....I offer no argument at all. They served the former generation quite well.

It definately has some advantages to hunt and practise with the same bullet and load. The most obvious is sight in and less logistics. But another important point is that at least some guns (mine) get a lot more copperfouling when switching brands than sticking to one.

I get 7 - 15 Sierras per premiumbullet in 30 caliber. Easy choice for practise when also considering how Sierra bullets shoot. I love TSX and Accubonds for hunting but I might try the 220 RN Sierra in 30-40 next season, it looks very right.

And Quintus, the is no need for an argument, the 30-40 Krag is superior and a great choice for 90% of shootable game.

What constitutes a "Premium" bullet? Wouldn't you consider the Accubond a "Premium" bullet since it seems to offer the best of both worlds? Good B.C. (long range performance), accuracy, good weight retention.

There are many arguments for and against premiums. I really do not think they are necessary in general, unless you are shooting light-for-caliber bullets, shooting very large animals, or law dictates no lead. Another issue is that under 3000 fps, it seems to me that they are not necessary. At the slower velocities, some of the premium bullets may actually be worse due to poor performance.

I have largely ignored them over the years mainly due to cost. I have tried Barnes bullets and they were great in one rifle and not so in my other one (7 mags). I finally found that I could load Hornady Interloc 175s and Nosler Partitions with the same load and they hit essentially the same POI. I use the Hornadys to sight in and shoot deer and then switch to the Partitions when it comes time for heavier animals.

If I intended to hunt elk or moose with a 139 grainer in my 7 mag, I would probably go with a copper bullet again, but I really do not intend to do that.

As long as it shoots accurately, the bottom line is use what your pocket book allows you to. There is sure nothing wrong with either one.

quote:

Premium bullets.....when do we have enough?

It's my recollection that the first premium bullet commonly available was Nosler's partition. It came about after ol' John lost a moose due to his pushing the limits of a conventional bullet too far.

In my opinion, pushing the envelope is still the only reason to go to the more costly bullets. Few of those routinely using 'em really need 'em; big game was being taken by skilled hunters with cup and core bullets from iron sighted Mod 94/.30/30s a hundred years ago. But, premium bullets, power house rifles, huge scopes and costly bullets are fun to play with and talk about, so why not?

quote:

Originally posted by scottfromdallas:
Premiums really aren't needed at all for deer. If you are talking elk or African game it probably depends where you live. The guy that lives in Elk country or Africa is probably less likely to use premium.

The guy paying $8,000 to travel on a paid hunt probably wants all the insurance he can have. At that expense, spending extra on premium seems like a wise investment.

I live in elk country and have only killed one elk with a non-premium bullet. It worked just fine, shot a cow elk at about 30 yards with 180 grian Winchester PP ammo and an 06. The rest have been Nosler Partitions 150 grain bullets out of a .270 Win. They just shoot so well that it is what I've used, started with them back before I started reloading.

That doesn't mean I haven't went back to using cup and core bullets to hunt elk. I just haven't connected with any elk since I hung up the old .270 to play with different cartridges. I've carried a .338-06 using 200 grain Hornady SP and an old Krag running 180 grain Sierra RN, and a Whelen using factory Remington 200 grain ammo.

When I went to Alaska to hunt black bear I must have burned through at least 200 rounds of .30-06 200 grain NP ammo I reloaded before I went. Hell the bear didn't need that bullet at all. I had them on the bench and thought, why not? I didn't know what else I'd use the bullets on.

I'm planning on going back this May for a spring bear hunt, going to use the .375 JDJ I think. I doubt I'll be running a premium bullet of course it just isn't needed in that cartridge either. I'm going to see what a 235 grain speer will do and if I can't get them to group I'll look for a different bullet.

When I am hunting Deer sized game I will use anything that shoots well in my rifles, the faster loads getting premium bullets. Hunting game larger than Deer my first choice is North Forks, then Nosler Partition or Accubonds. Dangerous game gets North Forks, softs and solids if needed. I beleave in the premiums and have never regreted money spent on them, and have never had a bad experience with them. Good shooting.

IMO, the Accubond line by Nosler are the best hunting bullets available - accurate with high BCs and they hold together for deep penetration. Regards, AIU