Is there any 338's being built based on the 308 Winchester?

a think its called a .338-308. ive seen it in some rifle magizines. can get over 2800 with a 185 barnes or 2530 with 210 noslers. it would be a great woods rifle i think.

It's a fairly common wildcat, known as the 338-08.

MM

Thanks for the info. Such a cartridge interests me, just about right to build a project rifle on. I was sure I had heard of it before but afer a quick search I came up with nothing so I figured I would ask. Now to find some more balistic info on it and maybe a chambered barrel.

HANLOADER'S DIGEST 17th Edition Page 18 "The Baby 338"

This is one that has always interested me and in one of the best gunzine articles I have read about it the author quoted, "The 338-08 is to the 338-06 as the 308 is to the 30-06" as far as performance with equal bullets is concerned.
I know the accuracy load with the Hornady 200 grain flat point bullet was the same as the one I use in my 338 Mag for local deer and close shots.
39.0 grains of 3031.
Makes it into a 33 Winchester!

LouisB

LouisB,

Don't you love the versatility of the .338WinMag?

I shoot 250gr Hornady RN at 2250fps over 50gr of RL-15 for a friendly, but lethal load.

MM

Heavy V - I think anyone who has ever had an urge to own a .358 Win would love this .338/308.
Sounds like a neat little wildcat to me.

I have a 338/308. It has replaced my 338/06 as my main hunting rifle. I have been using the that 338/06 for a lot of years and very sucessfully.

I have killed Deer, Elk and African plains game with the 338/308.

Go to http://www.Shooters.com and go into the Wildcat topic and look for the thread "Ken Waters and the 338/08"

DD

[ 12-05-2002, 18:40: Message edited by: Double D ]

MontanaMarine,

How well does the 250 Hornady RN at 2250 expand on deer size critters? I wouldn't expect much at that speed.

BigIron

In the same vein the .358 Win and the 9,3 x 57mm are avalible in factory trim as oppssed to wildcat status.

Aleko

Just a question for you Aleko what's a .358 Win and the 9,3 x 57mm have to do with "338 built on a 308 Case?" That's the question asked in this topic.

DD

DD,

It seems that Aleko means that the .358 Win, for instance, is available over the counter and that adds value to a rifle in my opinion. And of course the cartridges are so similar that nobody is going to prove that one performs a lot different than the other.

I am all for "you" making up wildcats, I have done it, just don't expect "me" to offer you much for your gun should you need to sell it.

Don Martin 29 you are right. The ballistics are so similar that the comparison is like apples and apples. Since the ballistics are the same the argumnet of avalibility is the only valid concern.

So phoey on all those wildcats, because they don't do something different....Ban all wildcats as redundant because there already is a cartridge that drives that weight bullet at that velocity.

Oh yes ban all wildcats because you can't buy ammo over the counter.

Yep fellas you are definitley right lets just stick to the old over the counter favorites, like 22-250, 25-06, 270, 280, 7mm STW, 308 Winchester 35 whelen, 416 Remington Mag and other tried and true factory produced ammo. We don't need any new wild cat Calibers.....do we now. Nopw wait a minute those ones won't work they all started life as wildcats.

As far as anyone buying my Wildcat rifles. If I sell them for any price I am money ahead. Ya see I take my wildcats out shooting, testing, learning. By time I am ready to sell one, it is wore out. But then I don't normally sell them, pull the bbl's and make something else. I will confess, Most rifles I build for Customers are sme sort of wildcat, becasue they can't get them over the counter

As far as comparing one caliber to another, you have a good point. What's the need. Why do we have to have so many different 7mm or 30 cals.

So what you fellas are saying that we should only have one caliber. How about the 30-06. Look what you can do with that from prairie dogs to elephant have been taken with the acaliber.

You can do all manner of target shooting at all ranges.

An just think, the cost of ammunition will come down if we were standardized to say four or five different cartridges.

For that matter if we standardized calibers we could standardize rifles We don't need anthing more that a 98 Mauser anyway, chrome molly at that. What need do we have for the Blaser. It doesn't out perform a good 98.

Damn, we could make this sport so dull and boring.

But then that group who is always so negative about change or challenge still wouldn't be happy. They would be belly aching about how if we changed the shoulder angle and shortened the neck of our standard caliber....well you get my drift.

Damn, we could make this sport so dull and boring.

Fellas the discussion is the 338/308. I have one. I built it on a early model Ruger 77 that started life as a .243. Got the shot out rifle for cheap at a Pawn shop. I have played with it for two years. I have used the Barnes 175 X bullet, the Nosler 180 BT and the Nosler 200 BT. I have killed Deer, Elk, Kudu, Springbok, Blesbok, Impala and Wildebeest with it. I am waiting to hear from the Montana Marine and his use of the 250 Hornadys.

And since I brought it up, I think a Blaser would make superb platform for a 338/308. What a handy little package. Wow!

DD

[ 12-09-2002, 03:38: Message edited by: Double D ]

DD - You're reading a LOT more into what's been said than is really there. Take some deep breaths and calm down. No one is coming to get your wildcats. No one is even talking bad about them. It'll be OK.

Double D,
Take a couple of aspirin and get some rest, your working too hard, my man....

The glory days of wildcatting are over with, all has been done, fun and games is all thats left. the purpose of wildcatting was to come up with inovention, something to add, something worthwhile to feed the industry and make happy shooters..It's over, kapute. Nothing new is left, even the factorys new ones were done by the Germans in 1930..and Dakota, Rem and others are claiming new revelations with old and mostly forgotten stuff.

All the man said was we have something just as good as the 338-08 which is an oldie and never had anything to offer over a 358 or 9.3x57. As nice as you may think the 338-08 is, he is correct....

I always liked the 338/284 and had a couple of them along with a couple of 338-06 in various versions, they were not as good as the 338 Win. and on and on...

If you want to play wildcatter, then be my guest, I did, but I never kidded myself it was more than fun and games....

No flame, just facts.

Thanks Ray

Aleko

Ray,

Your right about one thing, I have been working a lot of hours. A hell of a lot of hours. This new job and promotion is suppose to be for the better. I am having a hard time seeing the better.
I haven't popped a cap in three months, I missed deer season this year for the first time in I don't know how many years.

The Glory days of wildcatting may or may not be over. That's debateable. But it sure is still around. Just look at all the wonderful new components out there to play with. A wide range that wasn't around back in the 40's and 50's.

Take a drive up to Gooding and stop in to Brockman's shop and ask him if he has a reamer for the a .416 on a 300 Ultramag case. Ask him if he uses it. I know he does, I used his reamer my self last spring. How about a 338 WSM or RSM. If Jim doesn't have one of those, I'd be surprised. I know at least two other different sources for those reamers. In fact, what brought on all these UM's WSM's, and RSM's factory cartridges based on the 404 case, the Wildcatters. Wildcatters, who built them and the wildcatters who shot them.

Did innovation stop just because we invented a wheel.

You say you had your fun playing with the wildcat's, so why can't we. None of use were saying that the 338/08 was the "THE" answer. We we sharing the different things we had done with the 338/08.

Now to throw in a remark like "we have something just as good as the 338-08 which is an oldie and never had anything to offer over a 358 or 9.3x57" or "In the same vein the .358 Win and the 9,3 x 57mm are avalible in factory trim as oppssed to wildcat status" is like walking into a Chevie Truck owners club meeting and saying FORD is better. It's nothing more than an argument starter. It's flame.

Yes I do want to play wildcatter, You did. You said it was nothing more than fun and games....That's all I want out of it. You don't have some lock on fun and games do you?

So now that this thread is totally trashed, I will offer my apologies to heavy varmint, Sask_Hunter, MontanaMarine, Fat Albert, TCLouis, Pecos45 ,and BigIron. I allowed the flamers to draw me into argument.

DD

[ 12-09-2002, 11:49: Message edited by: Double D ]

Ray,

Often wildcatting is for practical reasons.

Take a mate of mine with his 25/300 Win and 270/300 in.

He liked the idea of 257 and 270 Wby but not the freebore. He could have solved the freebore with non standard reamers.

However, that would still leave him with expensive brass and also he would need two reamers. Why. Because the double radius shoulder of the Weatherbys will not let you chamber a 270 Wby with a 257 Wby reamer and have the neck and throat cut separately if you wish to use standard dies.

In addition he has a rifle set up around 300 Winchester so as you can see in this case the wildcatting is for practical reasons.

What about 22/243 instead of the 220 Swift. No feeding problesm and brass is everwhere.

What about 270/08 in the light mild shooting rifle to go with 270/300 Win. A 7mm/08 does not share the same bullets or barrel blanks.

I have only just started

Mike

If we were all practical then we would not bother with a lot of stuff. So wildcats do have a place.

I jumped on the .338/08 as I am a fan of the .358 Win.

Now that the WSM's are out I don't think there are going to be many more 338/08's.

The wildcats are fun to play with and some have become very succesfull factory rounds. I'm currently kicking around the idea of a short light carbine using the 300WSM necked up to 358. Maybe even Ackly improving it. Winter is a wonderful time to let the mind wander.

Another wildcat that sounds interesting is the .338-404. Some say that this wildcat is much like a .338 RUM, but I have no idea about it. However, right here in this forum there is handload data for it, in the Reloading Pages.

There are many reasons for building wildcats,
one of them is vanity.The"I have something you don't have"mentality,that may be the reason a lot
of wildcats are built.Many people have the desire
to be unique or to own something uncommon,witness
the vanity tags on motor vehicles.

If a person only wanted to hunt game there are
factory made rounds to cover every hunting situation that would be encountered,but without the
wildcatting that was done in the past,we would be
a lot poorer in our selection of factory rounds availible now.

I have built quite a number of wildcats in
the past 30 years or so.I have never knowingly
duplicated someone else's design.Some of my designs did not meet my expectations but I learned from each effort.

The wildcat that I am working now with fills a
special niche not availible from the factory.

I desired a small capacity .30 caliber round
to shoot heavy cast bullets at approximately 1200
fps but still be able to load to 30/30 levels.
Since accuracy was my prime concern I did not want another leveraction.The 30/30 case had more capacity than I thought desireable.

I had a like new Remington takeoff barrel in
30-06 caliber and a singleshot action I was not using.The 30-06 chamber has enough throat to
handle the heavier 30 caliber bullets.The 30-06 case has plenty of neck for cast bullets.

I faced the chamber end to a diameter of.457
and fit it to the action.I then ground the bottom
of a set of loading dies in 30-06 caliber until
they sized the .303 British case to fit the chamber.The resulting case is 1.625 inches long and has a capacity of 34.1grs of water.

I get very good accuracy with this round and it is very cheap to shoot.

Out of pocket expenses were 20 dollars for a
set of dies to grind down,therefore I named this wildcat the .30 HLS CHEAPSKATE.

Wildcatting can be justified at times.

WC

First of all, Thank You Double D for drawing interest to this thread. Many interesting points were brought up as a result of your post.

Now I would like to explain my interest in a 338/308.

1. It is a Wildcat and I want to have at least one if not for any other reason but to be the only kid on my block to own one.

2. I do like the 308 based cartridges and since this one compares more favorably to the 358 than 308 then all the better for what I am trying to achieve with this project.

3. I have not shot a factory made cartridge in so long I can't remember the last one so the only added expence should be the re-bore and dies.

4. Let's face it, the 358 Win. is not a popular round today despite its loyal following. I havn't found one in my local gun stores, havn't even seen one for sell on the net. in a bolt action for a few months. Factory ammo is not readily available "in my area at least", and the dies would have to be ordered. What I am saying here is that I like the 358 and since it and it's components are so scares anyway why not have my first wildcat based on something that compares to a factory offering that I like but would be almost as difficult to achieve. As a side note, once built there is a better selection of 338 bullets in my area than 358.

Well, those are my "excuses". Do they make since? Ol Hell, does it really matter?!?

No need for a wildcat eh? That's true nobody NEEDS one. But since when did anyone of us here get something because we needed it. If that's the case why travel to Afica when we have big game in North America? Oh ya, because it's something different. I think I'll keep my .416 Taylor.

Wildcatting is not dead and recent events on this forum prove it. Some of our fellow posters will finish their .600 Overkills and start reporting the results fairly soon. The .600 Overkill adresses the headspacing issues with the .585 Nyati by adding a belt, and the resulting redundancy of the shoulder allows .600" dia. bullets. Not to my taste, and certainly not as practical as the .510" cartridges, but it should be a wonderful cartridge for those who use it, and wildcatting is more about specificity than a more broadly defined characteristic of practicality.

Admitttedly in the smaller bore diameters it is difficult to do something new, but I find the fast-twist bores in combination with the heavy-for-caliber HPBTs to be fully within the purview of wildcatting. The long bullets won't shoot accurately in slower twists, and some smaller bullets won't tolerate the fast twists, so factory cartridges may not shoot in the faster twists. Some of our older bores are shooting farther and better than ever.

From my point of view we are still doing new things, and it would not matter if we were not. We're all having fun in our own way.

quote:

Originally posted by Wildcat Crazy:
There are many reasons for building wildcats,<br />one of them is vanity.The"I have something you don't have"mentality,that may be the reason a lot<br />of wildcats are built.Many people have the desire<br />to be unique or to own something uncommon,witness<br />the vanity tags on motor vehicles.<br /><br /> If a person only wanted to hunt game there are<br />factory made rounds to cover every hunting situation that would be encountered,but without the<br />wildcatting that was done in the past,we would be<br />a lot poorer in our selection of factory rounds availible now.<br /><br /> I have built quite a number of wildcats in<br />the past 30 years or so.I have never knowingly<br />duplicated someone else's design.Some of my designs did not meet my expectations but I learned from each effort.<br /><br /> The wildcat that I am working now with fills a<br />special niche not availible from the factory.<br /><br /> I desired a small capacity .30 caliber round<br />to shoot heavy cast bullets at approximately 1200<br />fps but still be able to load to 30/30 levels.<br />Since accuracy was my prime concern I did not want another leveraction.The 30/30 case had more capacity than I thought desireable.<br /><br /> I had a like new Remington takeoff barrel in<br />30-06 caliber and a singleshot action I was not using.The 30-06 chamber has enough throat to <br />handle the heavier 30 caliber bullets.The 30-06 case has plenty of neck for cast bullets.<br /><br /> I faced the chamber end to a diameter of.457<br />and fit it to the action.I then ground the bottom<br />of a set of loading dies in 30-06 caliber until<br />they sized the .303 British case to fit the chamber.The resulting case is 1.625 inches long and has a capacity of 34.1grs of water.<br /><br /> I get very good accuracy with this round and it is very cheap to shoot.<br /><br /> Out of pocket expenses were 20 dollars for a <br />set of dies to grind down,therefore I named this wildcat the .30 HLS CHEAPSKATE.<br /><br /> Wildcatting can be justified at times.<br /><br /> WC

I read your message is I follow interest not the creation of all your Wildcat because according to this that I have stink read had you create of other wildcat;
Because I try to gather most possible information this for it that I exclaim you all it I see that you been expert one in the field;
To give me Wildcat could you which you have create is stage of training of cases is has leave of that it case if you have of table of ballistics her shall not be of surplus;

Mercie for all

P.S: I shall want to have your address to be able to contact with you or to be spelled

quote:

Originally posted by Double D:
Just a question for you Aleko what's a .358 Win and the 9,3 x 57mm have to do with "338 built on a 308 Case?" That's the question asked in this topic.<br /><br />DD

They're better cartridges that are already available. Only excuse for a .338 on a .308 cases is just to be different.

I think Federal cartridge Co. already beat you to the punch! That is what the new 338Federal is.

Interesting thread.......started four years ago.....

quote:

Originally posted by Heritage Arms:
In the same vein the .358 Win and the 9,3 x 57mm are avalible in factory trim as oppssed to wildcat status.<br /><br />Aleko

The .338-08 is not longer a wildcat. It's now the .338 Federal, and this company is producing ammo for it.

quote:

Originally posted by NBHunter:
No need for a wildcat eh? That's true nobody NEEDS one. But since when did anyone of us here get something because we needed it. If that's the case why travel to Afica when we have big game in North America? Oh ya, because it's something different. I think I'll keep my .416 Taylor.

Well, don't forget the .375 Taylor. In my view this wildcat would make an outstanding all around cartridge for Alaska, and even Africa. I love using my .338WM, but would not mind a .375 Taylor at all.

Wildcatting is quite a great concept.

quote:

Originally posted by Heritage Arms:
In the same vein the .358 Win and the 9,3 x 57mm are avalible in factory trim as oppssed to wildcat status.<br /><br />Aleko

I believe this one has just been legitimized by Federal. They call it, very imaginitively, the ".338 Federal. It is a .308 Win. necked up, or a .358 Win. necked down, and loaded with .338" bullets. But it has been around for ages as the ".338/'08" wildcat........

The 338 Federal has always sounded to me like a necked down 358 WCF. Good shootin'. Packrattusnongratus

Wow, this thread came back alive after a long hibernation!

quote:

Originally posted by BCSteve:
Wow, this thread came back alive after a long hibernation!

I just realized that when i saw one of my previous answer to the original question. I posted twice!