I've always wondered?I thought the .300 Win Mag was a .308 bullet on a .338 Win Mag casing?So what's the difference?

Thanks

Kyle

Ballistically, very little.

Dimensions do differ. The 300 WM is longer (2.62") and has its shoulder more forward. The 30-338 is 2.5", etc.

Okay.I knew their had to be a little difference or they wouldn't have made it.

Thanks

The 30-338 came out before the 300mag.

The 300's shoulder is a teensy bit further forward and the 30-338 has a slightly longer neck.

At the Air Force Marksmanship School at Lackland AFB, San Antonio, TX, we loaded a lot of the .30-.338 rounds for our high power shooters. When the .300 Win Mag came out, we tried it to see if it was any better. In a hunting rifle, YES. In our target rifles, the longer neck and slightly lower case capacity seemed to be better.

I have owned and reloaded for both the 30-338's and 300 win mags for years. For hunting 300 Win Mags are factory loaded with all the associated pluses. The 30-338 is more accurate, and easier to load for. I don't have any 300 Win Mags left there all gone and there won't be anymore. My 30-338's are forever keepers. So I speaking by my actions there isn't any choice. I started with an open mind on the 300 Mags but experience loading for it really turned me off permanently. If I ever got another I would probably just rely on factory ammo for it for all I would use it, plenty enough accuracy for hunting, and no hassles.

The 30-338 doesn't give up much in velocity department to the 300 Win Mag. I get solid 2950 fps with 200 gr bullets in both my rifles, and both of my rifles are capable of 600 + yard shots, which is farther than I shot at game anyway. When I was in the height of my magnumitis I was doing a lot of 1000+ yard work with my 30-338's and they always performed. This was what the round was developed for, and it does it well.

But for your average hunting this level of accuracy isn't required, and it is a wildcat which means ammo availability. Too bad the 30-338 wasn't the 300 Win Mag, but I doubt Winchester would have made a round that close to the 308 Norma which is very close to the 30-338.

I was under the impression that the Norma was simply the 338 necked to 308. Hmm.
Anyway, Winchester wanted to cash in on the high-velocity craze, so they bumped the shoulder forward so those 150's would go faster. Not sure who shoots those in the Win Mag, but I guess some do. Looks like for 180's and up they all act the same. I'd think the longer neck helps stabilize the bullet into the chamber, but that's just a thought.

quote:

Originally posted by Kyle:
I've always wondered?I thought the .300 Win Mag was a .308 bullet on a .338 Win Mag casing?So what's the difference?

Thanks

Kyle

The .30-.338 is nearly identical to the .308 Norma Magnum, which predates the .300 Win. Mag. by several years. IMO, if Norma had not taken the .338 case and developed the .308 Norma, the .300 Winchester would be the .30-.338!

Winchester had to be different, so they lengthened the case a little, and moved the shoulder forward a little....... and now, the .300 Win. is different!

They say the .30-338 is more efficient cause the heavier bullets don't take up so much powder room in the case. The biggest difference is that you can't buy .30-338 cases or factory rifles. That is exactly why I had one made.

quote:

Originally posted by El Deguello:

quote:

Originally posted by Kyle:
I've always wondered?I thought the .300 Win Mag was a .308 bullet on a .338 Win Mag casing?So what's the difference?

Thanks

Kyle

The .30-.338 is nearly identical to the .308 Norma Magnum, which predates the .300 Win. Mag. by several years. IMO, if Norma had not taken the .338 case and developed the .308 Norma, the .300 Winchester would be the .30-.338!

Winchester had to be different, so they lengthened the case a little, and moved the shoulder forward a little....... and now, the .300 Win. is different!

Fred Huntington took the 338 case and necked it down called it the 30-338. The 308 Norma Mag kept the same shoulder angle but changed the shoulder width plus afew other things. The 300mag and kept pretty much the case desgin of the 338 as to shoulder width just moved the shoulder forward and shorten the neck to allow for more case capacity and legnth the case. The 308 Norma Mag and 300win mag are more closer in case length 2.559/2.620 than the 30-338 length 2.500 same as the 7 mag. Had Fred Huntington (RCBS) not done the 30-338 plus Fred had alot of other caliber his RCBS line he was working on Win may of done the 30-338. The 308 Norma Mag never came into play. Rem played with the 338 case and came out with the 7mag. I honestly beleive Win learned a lesson and when they came out with the wsm it was in 3 calibler and they add one and same with the wssm. I also think Win remembered when rem came out with the 40x in 30-338. Alot of folks including me were disappointed when win came out with the 300mag instead of the 30-338 but over time both caliber have survived. I have customs in both calibers. I shot a 308 Norma Mag for awhile and only problem was brass just not alot of it around and pretty soft stuff. I see you can still get 308 Norma mag brass. Got to remember back in the early 60's no computers around so took awhile for some information to get around. I was lucky lived in northern Calif had RCBS,Pacific and Miro-sights so got things alittle faster. My first custom in the 60's was a 7mag wanted the 30-338 but couldn't get the reamer.

Just to keep things straight the 308Norma was not developed from the 338 win It was developed from the the 358 Norma necked down.During the middle and late 50's there was a flurry of wildcatting with short mag in 30 cal from many different wildcatters. They wanted 300H&H plus performance from a std length action. Norma had introduced their 358 a couple years prior to that. They seen a market and offered factory made cases and actually loaned chambering reamers to gunsmiths and the 308 Norma took off. This would have still been in the late 1950's. Rem didn't bring the 7mm Rem out until the early 1960's (about 62). Win was sleeping while Rem & Norma took a big chunk of the market. When Win finally decided to drop the 300 H&H and bring out their own short mag they designed it so it would just clean up a 308 Norma chamber and most of the other wildcat short mags. They offered cheaper ammo & brass than Norma and all other american manufacturers started chambering the 300 win cal.Had Rem and Savage started chambering the 308 Norma tne 300 Win would likely never have been created.

As a practical matter, the .300 Win. Mag. is a standard factory chambering, while the .30-338 is not.

That's the real difference between the two, although if you hone your imagination real well and stay awake at night thinking about it, you can come up with a theory or two that'll justify a preference for the .30-338.........

quote:

Originally posted by snowman:
Just to keep things straight the 308Norma was not developed from the 338 win It was developed from the the 358 Norma necked down.During the middle and late 50's there was a flurry of wildcatting with short mag in 30 cal from many different wildcatters. They wanted 300H&H plus performance from a std length action. Norma had introduced their 358 a couple years prior to that. They seen a market and offered factory made cases and actually loaned chambering reamers to gunsmiths and the 308 Norma took off. This would have still been in the late 1950's. Rem didn't bring the 7mm Rem out until the early 1960's (about 62). Win was sleeping while Rem & Norma took a big chunk of the market. When Win finally decided to drop the 300 H&H and bring out their own short mag they designed it so it would just clean up a 308 Norma chamber and most of the other wildcat short mags. They offered cheaper ammo & brass than Norma and all other american manufacturers started chambering the 300 win cal.Had Rem and Savage started chambering the 308 Norma tne 300 Win would likely never have been created.

I agree with the above and to add that when Win. came out with the 264, 338 and 458 WM's we all waited for their 300 mag. Target shooters were already using the 30/338 so that seemed to make sense. But Norma beat Winchester to the market with their 30 mag.

The 300 WM has warnings in the Nosler handbooks on what bullets that can be used. When someone who uses the 180 Protected Pt. Partition with it's poor ballistic coefficient then you know it's a troublesome cartridge.

It's too bad we are stuck with the 300 WM. Due to many circumstances development ran off the track to belted bottlenecked rounds, then to blown out belted rounds and then to the final difficulty the 300 WM. That cartridge is sort of evolution in reverse with lots of little things being wrong.

Oh for the .30 Newton but it was not to be.

Nobody is stuck with any cartridge,It seems funny that the 300 win is the most popular 30 cal.

Savage, you simply don't know what you're talking about when it comes to .300 Win. Mag., and I'll bet you have just about zero experience with it at the range, in the reloading room, or especially in the hunting field.

ANYONE with even a modicum of experience with the .300 Win. Mag. knows that those old alarums about the so-called "short-neck", etc. are just old wives' tales, and nothing more. I have fired hundreds and hundreds of rounds of handloaded 180 gr. Nosler Partition Spitzer bullets through various .300 Win. Mags. over the course of the last dozen years, and I have yet to see the day when there was any bullet slippage, any insuffcient neck tension, etc., etc.

In fact, just about every .300 Win. Mag. expert I know who has really used it laughs over that kind of assumption.

But I know, you read all about it in Nosler's manual, so by gadfry, you know all about it......

AD

Hi Allen,

It's a beautiful day here. I am just having fun.

By the way why do you shoot the protected point in the Partitions? Or maybe you have some 300 WM's with extended boxes? If so why did you do that?

quote:

Originally posted by xp100:
Nobody is stuck with any cartridge,It seems funny that the 300 win is the most popular 30 cal.

The biggest selling car at one point or perhaps even today is the VW beetle. Talk about a lousy design. What the heck does the public know anyway? That's proof that the answer is not much!

The 300 WM is the VW beetle of cartridges.

300 Winchester Magnum History and General Information.
The 300 Winchester Magnum was developed by winchester based off of their own .338 win.mag. by moving the shoulder area of the cartridge forward .156" and lengthening the case .120", winchester introduced their 300 to the public in 1963.
The 300 winchester magnum has enough power, using 180 grain bullets to drop deer well beyond 600 yards and it will take elk at 500 yards.
The 300 winchester magnum is one of the few cartridges that really make the case for free boring and a longer action, with bullets seated deeply in the cartridge case it's full potential can not be realized by the limited case capacity of deep seated bullets.
note: (see rifle gunsmithing free bore)

The 300 winchester magnum when loaded with 180 grain bullets recoil is quite substantial but is still controllable, a good recoil pad fitted to the rifle is a must have.

gunners Den

quote:

Originally posted by allen day:
Savage, you simply don't know what you're talking about when it comes to .300 Win. Mag., and I'll bet you have just about zero experience with it at the range, in the reloading room, or especially in the hunting field.

ANYONE with even a modicum of experience with the .300 Win. Mag. knows that those old alarums about the so-called "short-neck", etc. are just old wives' tales, and nothing more. I have fired hundreds and hundreds of rounds of handloaded 180 gr. Nosler Partition Spitzer bullets through various .300 Win. Mags. over the course of the last dozen years, and I have yet to see the day when there was any bullet slippage, any insuffcient neck tension, etc., etc.

In fact, just about every .300 Win. Mag. expert I know who has really used it laughs over that kind of assumption.

But I know, you read all about it in Nosler's manual, so by gadfry, you know all about it......

AD

Being around when the 300mag came out there was alot about the short neck etc and how the manufactors were pushing such a lousy round (Same stuff being said about the 300wsm). I got Noslers reloading manual #1 and #2 and no where does it talk about bullets or what type to use. Only comments are in #2 about the neck being .26 long and how popular the 300 mag is with the target shooter and hunters. To be honest I favored the 30-338 over the 300mag mainly because I support Fred in his design plus I had alot more positve informantion on the 30-338. You have to realize back then most things came by word of mouth. In time through the manufactors push of the 300mag and the shooters all those negative things about the 300mag weren't true. The only thing that has always stayed from those days is the short neck on the 300 mag. Only thing I wish I'd of kept was the Browning 308 Nroma Mag. You have to stop and think from about 1958 to 1962 came the 7mag,264,300mag,30-338,338mag and 300 norma mag I know there is some I missed. That was alot in just 4yr span. Look at whats come out in the last 5ys with the short cases. To me it's all part of moving forward in the shooting game. well good luck.

I have shot and hunted with both the 30-338 and the 300 Win....There is no difference in the two thats worth discussing..and I might add that I have shot a lot of 308 protected points because I bought a 1000 seconds some years back and never had any trouble with them in any 30 cal...

That said I have always been partial to the 300 H&H because I like the 200 and 225 gr. bullets and it handles them better than any of the short magnums, all but the 300 Wby...but thats not much of a reason as the all do the job...

Basically the biggest difference in any of the 300s is the jabber that surrounds them! Get a life whichever one you have is great