I "enjoy" cleaning my rifles..But, I also worry that I might be going a little crazy!!
I lay in bed and wonder if I got out all the copper..
My routine goes like this...I clean after every 10-15 shots, or when I change powder in my reloads.
Montana X-treme, 3 times to get the fouling, then Sweets with nylon brush, run 2 dry patches, then Montana again, maybe 1, followed by 2 dry patches, the last using Remoil...bored yet???
Is this "too much" and will it hurt my barrels???
What about using abrasive cleaners, every 300 rounds or so???
Save me, and my barrels from myself!!..sakofan..

Save a ton of work- get a can of Wipe-out. Just squirt it in the barrel, let sit up to 8 hours depending on amount of fouling, then clean with a dry patch. If the patch is very deep blue, put some more in the barrel and let it sit a while longer. When cleaning with this, it removes 100% of the fouling, with no scrubbing or abrasives to harm your barrel.

Where can purchase "wipe Out"? I have read all about it but it's not available locally. web links would be great.

ken..what about the copper???
will wipeout take it out too????..sakofan.

Sakofan,
The blue on the patches Ken is talking about is the copper fouling. So yes, it will remove it.

If you are cleaning as much as you say you are, I would hope that you are using a guide rod.

You could potentially do more damage with your rod than leaving a little fouling in your bore.

Something else to lay in bed and think about.

Larry

It is made by the Paul Company. Paola, KS. Phone #785-883-4444. The people there are very helpful and informative.
I learned about the product on these forums, and I am glad I did.

Yeah I reckon wipe-out is the best, do a search for wipe-out under big bores you will get heaps of info or try there site www.paulcousa.com ...Les

Powderfinger..I do use a bore guide, I failed to mention that...if I didnt, I would have a bunch of smooth bores by now...LOL..thanks fellas, I'll try the wipeout..I dont know if I can wait 8 hours to run a patch through..hahahaha..sakofan...

I've tried most everything on the market. Wipeout is the best so far

From the blue color, wipe out must contain ammonia. If so, what would be wrong with leaving say Shooter's Choice or Butches in your bore overnight? That's supposed to be a big time no no.

I've used Wipeout for several months now and not only does it work--it saves work! It has almost no odor and won't harm bluing or stock finishes. If I remember correctly, there is no ammonia in it. Several copper salts are blue colored so that doesn't always mean there is ammonia present. I usually get the powder fouling out, run a couple of dry patches through the bore, then fill it with Wipeout and come back several hours later. A couple of my rifles that are well broken in take less than 30 minutes to get completely clean. You owe it to yourself to try this stuff!

Good Hunting,

I think Cabela's, Midway, and some others are starting to stock Wipe Out also. Although it doesn't use ammonia, it does use an ammonia like organic compound called monoethanolamine. It is recommended to not set the gun up in such a way as to allow the Wipe Out to run into the action(point the barrel slightly down from horizonal so any drips will come out the muzzle end). It is recommended that stocks, wood or synthetic, barrel finishes, actions or magazines, or most any non steel parts, not have contact with Wipe Out. Clean off any Wipe Out coming in contact with anything other than the chamber and rifling. Wipe Out is the best. Any way that is my opinion on it. Best-o-Luck

I'm sorry to dissent, but I've used a full can of Wipeout now and I'm not impressed at all with it. It doesn't get all the copper out and it certainly doesn't get all the powder fouling out. I've done some tests in which I used Wipeout to clean the bore until patches came out clean. Then I wet patched with some Shooters Choice followed by some scrubbing with a bronze bore brush which was then followed by another wet patch. There has always been a considerable amount of powder fouling still present in the bore. It does a pretty good job on the copper, but it's not as good as Barnes CR10.

[ 04-02-2003, 00:15: Message edited by: Delta Hunter ]

BEFORE YOU USE REM-OIL AGAIN, read my thread on
"why no teflon in the bore after cleaning"... I beleive in the reloading forum

The teflon is supposed to be inert (non-reactive) ans therefore can cause the solvents to not actually get down to the copper. I read something about that, and asked the question,......then several members more knowledgeable than I, responded to explain why in the sinclair catalog, a few of the bore oils specify "no teflon"

FYI

I'm gonna preach heresy here and say that I often leave less-aggressive solvents in my bores to soak. Hoppes #9, Shooters Choice and GM Top Engine Cleaner do a fine, albeit slow job of softening up the copper and capturing the carbon that finds its way out of the barrel's pores over a couple days after firing.

The chemists among us will surely issue dire warnings that such practices cause cancer, bore erosion and hair loss but I'm comfortable with what I've been doing for decades. I'm a serious target shooter so if this had any serious impact on how the rifle shoots, I'm sure I'd've seen it by now.

Redial

At first I felt the same as Delta Hunter until I called Terry Paul and got the scoop. If a gun has not been cleaned using Wipe Out and you use it for the first time, the patches could come out looking clean. If this is the first cleaning, use it, wipe it out until clean patches and then do it again and leave it over night. If you don't get the gun really clean to begin with, the carbon is still built up. After making sure the bore was CLEAN the Wipe Out process is the best going.

As for teflon, it has made no difference except to better prevent rusting for me. I can live with that. Wipe Out will take the teflon oils out as well.

larrys, I talked to Mr. Paul also when I first ordered my WipeOut. He said to take my rifles, which I had been cleaning in the traditional manner, and let them sit overnight with WipeOut in the bore. He assured me I'd be surprised at how much fouling came out of the bore in the morning and that after that I'd then have a perfectly clean barrel to start with. Well, I did exactly that and the next morning the patches came out perfectly clean, not dirty as he said they would. My traditional method must have been working pretty darn well to begin with since the WipeOut didn't remove any additional fouling.

So then I shot the rifles and used WipeOut in these dirty bores. I let them soak all night and the next morning I did get dirty patches. I put some more Wipeout in the bores and let them sit all day. When I got home from work I patched them out again and the patches were dirty again. I continued doing this until the patches came out without any signs of fouling. Fine, I thought, my rifles are now clean.

But being the curious kind of guy I am, I wanted to see if Shooters Choice along with a brass brush would remove any additional powder fouling. I honestly didn't expect it to, but it did and quite a bit I might add. After a couple more instances like this, I have concluded that WipeOut does not do as good a job as the method I had been using all along. I just don't think there's a substitute for a good scrubbing with a bronze brush or something like JB paste every now and then.

[ 04-02-2003, 02:13: Message edited by: Delta Hunter ]

I cant find Wipe Out at my local gun shop, but I did try Shooters Choice ..Spray or foam something, sorry, I just had a brain seizure...
And I was really impressed with it, especially on the copper...
No solvent that I have used seems to perform well on the carbon AND the copper...this stuff is really legit!!!
I scrubed with a brush real good, and let it sit, and tried some Sweets 7.62 after and got nothing on the patch, no blue, no nothing!!!
I thought I was the only guy that cleans his rifles a couple days after a hard day at the range..you people are sick, sick, sick....
About the Rem Oil, a guy told me Saturday, that he heard of teflon based oil, ruining 2 Hart barrels for some reason, that the teflon " gummed " up the rifling some how???......sakofan..

Guys, I may be wrong. But I have always thought that that carbon buildup was benfital to a barrel and consistent velocities. I usually take Hoppes and get out the main powder fouling. Dry out with patches then use wipe out on the copper overnight.

Delta Hunter I too thought that wipeout was no good as I followed the instructions strictly. But since I have let the bore soak in it overnight I have changed my tune.

If you put Shooter's Choice in the bore with a brass brush the colouring you see may be from the ammonia reacting with the brushes and not copper fouling in the bore. (And if you have been using Shooter Choice & not washing your bronze brushes in lighter fluid there would be heaps of colour showing)

I'd be interested to see if your your results changed if you just patched with Sweets or Shooter Choice or used only Nylon brushes after cleaning with Wipeout.

I have patched with Sweets after wipeout and the patches showed no colour. Its a bit of a pain to have to leave it so long (especially as we have strict safe storage laws)but the benefit is that you don't use many patches at all. In fact I am finding I don't need to brush.

But I do find that to get out the powder residue there is nothing better than Hoppes 9. After that I hit it with wipeout.

I've done the "Sweet's after Wipeout test" and have not gotten any additional color. I pushed two Sweet's soaked patches through the bore, then followed with 10 strokes using a Sweet's soaked nylon brush, then allowed 15 minutes of sitting time and pushed through a clean patch that came out with only Sweet's on it. Did this with 3 different rifles. I'm sold.

Good Hunting,

Please reread my post guys. I'm talking about POWDER fouling, not copper fouling. I'm saying that WipeOut used in conjunction with patches alone is poor at removing POWDER fouling. Shooters Choice and a bronze brush is much better at removing POWDER fouling in my experience.

As far as copper fouling is concerned, I prefer Barnes CR10.

To remove copper fouling I use common household ammonia. After normal cleaning to remove powder residue I plug the chamber (plugs are available from Sinclair) and fill the barrel. After a few hours I check the bore with a flashlight ,and when the copper is gone I drain it, dry it with patches, and lightly coat with Ballistol.
It's cheap and easy.

Leocal....do you use ammonia w/ stainless steel barrels???
I thought this was a taboo...sakofan....

I may be judged to be judged to be totally out in left feild on this one BUT, If the barrel was broken in properly and cleaned right during the break in period, you shouldn't see a significant need for a copper removing cleaner but every 60-80 rounds! Hoppe's#9 with patches and a good brush will remove the powder residue and when you see accuracy start to dwindle then Sweet's will clean up the copper and you can go back to tight little groups!! The one step that gets missed is to run a patch through the bore with either Hoppe's or whatever you use,(REM OIL works too) before storing the rifle so that you don't shoot a "dry bore" when you get it back out! Why do you think it's called a fouling shot? GHD