I just picked up a Ruger tang safety in 7x57....it is long throated,I want to load up some Sierra 150 gamekings...the powders I have on hand are H414,H380 and IMR 4831....I loaned out my reloading book.....hoping someone can offer some help,and should I just seat the bullet long or factory specs?????
I am looking for an all purpose load,for deer and elk under 200 yards........thanks

Bob

My favorite powder for the 7x57 is AA4350, I am not a big fan of 4831 in the 7x57 doesn't give me the velocity or the accuracy I like.

My best loads are AA4350, RL-15 and RL-19 using a Nosler Partion 150 gr.

If I had to pick your powder choices it would be a toss up betweeh the IMR 4831 or the H380. You can safely start your loads on the IMR4831 at 44 grs and work up from there.

quote:

elk under 200 yards

I shoot a lot of Sierra bullets, great at the range and deer sized animals. I even have the 150 grs loaded ( all for my 7x57 ), these are not great bullets on Elk though. I have personally both seen and had core jacket seperations using these, and yes these were recovered rounds. I would pick a better elk bullet, I'm not saying they won't work as I just said above they will and I have used them, but not anymore on elk hunts. If you don't want to spend the bucks on the Nosler's or premium bullets, I would use the Hornady 154 gr or a Speer 145-160 gr. All of these work better on large animals.

I have the same rifle and my go to load feature h-414 and 154 horn it shoots the 139s well to.

Never loaded any 150 grain bullets for the 7x57, but go with the 140's. For them, H-414 is THE powder for best accuracy.
Don

48 gr. IMR 4831(start lower) Seat bullet out as far as your magazine and throating will allow and still have reasonable engagement in the neck.

As earlier stated that bullet would not be a first choice on game larger than deer.May be old hat but I would go with the 175grain bullets for Elk size game. roger

For deer, I like 140's at 2950fps in the 7x57 and have always had the best luck with H414. For bigger game, 160 Noslers at 2780 fps, again with H414 work in my Ruger. I haven't shot any deer with them yet, but the 140 Barnes TSX shoots great in my old MkII.

Chola: Welcome to Accurate Reloading. I used to own a Model 77 in 7x57, but my very first Model 77 was in .284 Winchester. I wish I still owned that rifle. My 7x57mm now is a CZ 550 American. Your Ruger has a 1x9.5 barrel twist. The funny thing about rifles, and others have said it on this thread, is that no two are alike. A Sierra 150 gr. GameKing may shoot well in your rifle, but an indentical Ruger Model 77 made just before yours was manufactured, or just after it, may not shoot the Sierra 150 GameKings as well, or it may shoot them but with patterns of five to six inches rather than groups. Case in point, my brother owns a beautiful CZ 550 Full Stock in 7x57mm and his friend bought an identical rifle from the the same gunshop three days after he saw my brother's rifle. The actions on my rifle, my brother's rifle and his friends' rifle are the same. The barrels are all 1x8.66 twist barrels, mine is 23.6 inches long and my brother's and his friend's barrels are 20.5 inches long. This is the same barrel, just shorter in all three rifles. Same action, same barrels. My rifle loves Hornady 162 grain SST bullets and H414 powder. It also shoots sub minute of angle groups with 160 grain Nosler Partition bullets and the same powder. With 48.3 grains of H414, my CZ will put three SSTs into a group of less than a half inch at 100 yards. The same load in my brother's rifle shoots six inch groups and the same load in his buddy's rifle shoots groups that are 1.25 inches. We tried adjusting the seating depth, tried adjusting the powder charge, tried changing primers and nothing we tried could make those six inch groups shrink on my brother's rifle. Now, my rifle will shoot the Noslers into a .75 inch group with the H414 powder, and so will Duffy's rifle, shoot the partitions right at .75 inch and his buddy's rifle also shoots the partitions well. A friend of mine owns a Model 70 Winchester FTW in 7x57mm and it will not shoot the SSTs worth a hoot, even the 154 grainers, but, it will shoot the 150 grain partitions into tight little groups, but not with H414. It likes H4350, however, with IMR4350 the groups open up. His rilfe has a 1x10 barrel twist.

Now, to your question. The Ruger Model 77 nad the Ruger Mark I(I both have exceedingly long throats, as you are aware. I found that my rifle liked the bullets seated as close to the lands as I could get them. The magazine length is long enough to seat the bullets way out there. You might measure one of your bullets to see what the overall length of the cartridge will be right to the lands with that particular bullet. With my Rugers I could not get that close to the lands with 150 grain bullets, so I loaded them as far out as I could get them. Your measurements will dictate how far out to seat the bullet. As for powder, you might look seriously at H4350 and someone responded to one of my posts one time stating his rifle loved RL-19. I do not load 150 grain bullets for my CZ 550 American, just the Hornady 162 SST or the Nosler Partition 160 grain and in each 48.3 grains of H414 works like a charm. Good luck with your 7mm and have fun with it. It is, in my opinion, just about the best caliber there is going these days. Tom Purdom

I own 2 Ruger 77 Mk 2s in 7 x 57....

While everyone speaks up for the slower powders...RL 19 & 22, IMR 4350, 4831; H 4831 & 4350; H 414 etc...

Both of mine would not shoot a darn thing worth a darn....Until I stumbled across using IMR 3031 in them... 40 grains regardless of bullet weight!

This was like about 5 minutes before one was going on the used rack at the gun store and the other was going to the gunsmith for a re barrel job to another caliber....

175 grain Corelokt and 40 grains of IMR 3031 and I had myself a 1/4 inch group at 100 yds! I couldn't believe it so I loaded up some more with several types of 175 grain bullets.. same thing!

Then I tried it with 160s, 154s,150s,140s, 139s... same thing....

needless to say, I kept both rifles...

ONE has a 3 x9 Leupold on it, and a 160 grain Speer Mag Tip and 40 grains of 3031 and use it for elk, deer etc...

The other has a 4 x40 Simmons Whitetail Classic scope on it, and its load is a 154 grain Hornady with the 40 grains of 3031 for bear and Elk in thick brush....

The only other powders that have grouped as tight have been RL 7, IMR 4198, SR 4759 and Blue Dot shotgun powder...

ON the flip side in a horse trade.. I ended up with a Winchester Featherweight in 7 x 57... That rifle shoots ANYTHING you feed it down the barrel like it thinks it is a heavy barrel varmint rifle....

I have known people who have had the Winchesters with similar experience.. and those with Rugers that had similar experiences that the 3031 recommendation cleaned them up dramatically....

Don't ask me why, I just go with what works! I hate to get rid of a firearm.. feeling the same as trading in my son on another one!

cheers and good luck..
seafire

quote:

Originally posted by chola:
I just picked up a Ruger tang safety in 7x57....it is long throated,I want to load up some Sierra 150 gamekings...the powders I have on hand are H414,H380 and IMR 4831....I loaned out my reloading book.....hoping someone can offer some help,and should I just seat the bullet long or factory specs?????
I am looking for an all purpose load,for deer and elk under 200 yards........thanks Bob

I use a 150-grain bullet with 50 grains of IMR 4350 for a "mild" load in my Rugers. This load gives just at 2700 FPS, and I believe around 50 grains of H414 with the 150-grain bullet would do just about the same for you. If you use Nosler Partitons or Barnes X's, it should do for elk as well as deer. My 7X57mm elk load is a 175-grain Nosler Partition with 54 grains of RE 22 which gives a MV of 2720 FPS from my two Rugers, a No. 1A and an M77 "Tang Safety" model, both of which have long throats.

Of course, you need to approach this load from around 5% below, and I have to load my 54-grain charges in two increments - I pour about half in with a drop tube, then tap the side of the case for about ten seconds with a plastic screwdriver handle to settle the powder, then add the rest. This leaves about 1/4" of the case neck empty to start the bullet. The same charge, 54 grains, of Norma MRP or old Norma N205 will give very comparable results.

This is a group shot with the 150-grain Nosler BT & 50 grains of IMR 4350 load from a Venezuelan Mauser @ 110 yards- very typical performance from that particular load. The 175 grain load shoots about as well as the 150-grain load.....



I fired the first two shots, then adjusted the scope left 1", and fired the one that hit on the left - the red circle indicates where it would most probably have hit had I not made the sight change.....

What Seafire/B17G said! I have a couple of 7X57s which shoot very well with several combinations. I also have a 500 count box of 150 grain Remington PSPCL that wouldn't shoot in either rifle with any powder combination.
I tried his load of 40 grains of IMR 3031 and my '98 went from groups of 4"+ to an average of 10 groups that was only 1.36". It works!

I know this isn't a 7x57 but I had a 284 that would not shoot H-4831 or IMR4350 worth a hoot. So I decide to try some 3031 the loads they had in the manuals weren't exactly burning down the barn. I loaded some 154 with the 3031 going about 2750FPS, man it did wonders went fron shotgun groups to less than 1/2 inch groups went out that deer season and killed me a decent buck.

John

WOW..........thanks fellas...that's awesome info....gonna get some IMR 3031 tomorrow and try it out....I picked up some H414 already....I did manage to find a good load for me using H4831SC and Remington 175gr softpoints.....3 shots into an inch at 100 meters....no recoil either...was surprised all to heck......OAL is 3.065,which worked the best out of all I loaded up

I load 50 grains AA 4350 and a CCI-200 behind 145-grain Speer GS's for my son's custom 7 X 57. (Max load, so work up...) I discovered the load during barrel break-in right after my gunsmith buddy finished the rifle. I was counting shots, and 47 thru 50 went into 0.4" at a hundred... My 'smith buddy was tickled to death!
Bullet is seated just off the lands, and even then it makes for a compressed load, but it darned well shoots in Mark's Springfield.
I think for elk I would work up a load with a 140-grain Swift A-Frame, and let the good times roll!

So you use 40 grains of IMR3031 for every bullet weight....I may have to load some up and see,just picked up a bunch of new brass,I'll have to get them prepped as soon as I get a holiday here....thanks for load suggestion,definately gonna give it a whirl

quote:

Originally posted by seafire/B17G:
I own 2 Ruger 77 Mk 2s in 7 x 57....

While everyone speaks up for the slower powders...RL 19 & 22, IMR 4350, 4831; H 4831 & 4350; H 414 etc...

Both of mine would not shoot a darn thing worth a darn....Until I stumbled across using IMR 3031 in them... 40 grains regardless of bullet weight!

This was like about 5 minutes before one was going on the used rack at the gun store and the other was going to the gunsmith for a re barrel job to another caliber....

175 grain Corelokt and 40 grains of IMR 3031 and I had myself a 1/4 inch group at 100 yds! I couldn't believe it so I loaded up some more with several types of 175 grain bullets.. same thing!

Then I tried it with 160s, 154s,150s,140s, 139s... same thing....

needless to say, I kept both rifles...

ONE has a 3 x9 Leupold on it, and a 160 grain Speer Mag Tip and 40 grains of 3031 and use it for elk, deer etc...

The other has a 4 x40 Simmons Whitetail Classic scope on it, and its load is a 154 grain Hornady with the 40 grains of 3031 for bear and Elk in thick brush....

The only other powders that have grouped as tight have been RL 7, IMR 4198, SR 4759 and Blue Dot shotgun powder...

ON the flip side in a horse trade.. I ended up with a Winchester Featherweight in 7 x 57... That rifle shoots ANYTHING you feed it down the barrel like it thinks it is a heavy barrel varmint rifle....

I have known people who have had the Winchesters with similar experience.. and those with Rugers that had similar experiences that the 3031 recommendation cleaned them up dramatically....

Don't ask me why, I just go with what works! I hate to get rid of a firearm.. feeling the same as trading in my son on another one!

cheers and good luck..
seafire

Use H414 and seat the bullet out as far as you can or about off the lands....Work up your own max load as the books do not treat a good 7x57 well because of the model 95s floating around...It will shock you at the velocity you will get with a perfectly safe load...

I shoot my 7x57 long throated Mauser at velocities that equal the .280 and even factory loaded 7 mags, but of course the 7 mag in factory persuasion is really meek, as compared to a good handload in them...

Seafire,

WOW! That's one helluva 7x57 you've got there... With 175's performing like that and careful shooting you can drop anything on the planet with ease. Congrats on a helluva rifle/load combo. Fascinating that it does it with varying bullet weights too.

PS: Are you using standard primers and std COAL (or are you seating to the lands in your rifles)?

I don't currently have a 7x57 but it's a round I certainly plan on adding to my rifle battery some day, as it's a true classic in every way - second only to the old '06.

Chola,

I love the old tang-safety M77's, the one's I've had were smoother/slicker actions than the MkII's I've had generally. I also like that tang-safety, it's very natural and quick to get into action.

458 Ruger:

I only use standard primers, even in my magnums when I occasionally load them up....

the 40 grains of IMR 3031 came out of a Hodgdon manual, older one... I think they listed 38 grains with the 175 grain bullets, but it was also listed at lower than 50,000 CUP pressure so I just worked up that extra two grains just in case...

But it just worked well with all bullet weights with little variation in MV with each different bullet....

I have also noticed the same pattern in my 338/06 with IMR 4064.... 50 grains gives an MV of 2550 fps with a 200 grain bullet... on the other end with a 250 grain bullet and 50 grains of IMR 4064, it gives a MV of 2500 fps....info straight out of Sierra manual... So I load that up frequently... go from a 200 grain Ballistic Tip to a 250 grain Round Nose at my initative and do not have to readjust the scope settings.. I like that sort of flexibility!

As far as OAL: I just load the bullet to magazine length... the throat will take it regardless of bullet weight in my featherweight and both of my Rugers!

Recoil is also less than a 308, with the 175 grain loads....

cheers
seafire

I had a 7x57 R77 made in '76, and, before I discovered the long throat they all seem to come with, it only shot patterns with the 140 Nosler SB's I was using.

My current 7x57 M70 Fwt. favors H4350/150 W-W Power-Points/WLR primers; one of the 4350's DOES seem to be the powder for the 7x57, at least with the 140-154 grain bullet weights. Since you don't have any 4350, unfortunately, you'll probably have decent luck using Hodgdon's data for H414. My load notes show some good results with H414 and 154 Hornadys, but, the H4350 worked better, and that's what I stuck with.

Good luck. What a great round the 7x57 is!!

Load smart. Load safe. Triple check everything. Never use load data from the 'net without checking against pressure tested load data from a known source. Typo's happen!!

I took Seafire's advice and tried out 40gr's of IMR 3031 and my 150 gr Sierra bullets......worked very well...I could only try them at 50 meters,but the results are still awesome,much better than it has shot previously....when they get all the new target boards up,I'll post a traget with 100 meter results.....sure does seem to work for me ....thanks again to all who replied,I am a new reloader and definately appreciate all the help and advice I have been given already

R-West. What cartridge overall length are you using with those 150 gr. Power Points in your M-70? I have one of those rifles and so far it won't shoot them worth a damn. Every other bullet I've tried has been one inch or less, with some very much less. Yet if I get a 1.5" group in one out of ten tries, I feel a miracle has occurred. FWIW, I have trhee rifles in 7x57 and that bullet won't shoot in any of them.
Paul B.

Hi Paul. Sorry, I don't have the data here - I'm at work (T-1 connection), and the load data's at home (28k modem , so I don't visit AR much from home). I'll check tonite.

BTW - I had a similar problem with the P-P's, which I'd purchased in bulk, then, one night I stuck a few of them on the digital scale, and discovered their weights varied quite a bit (almost 2 grains from high to low, if memory serves), so, I got out some baggies and segregated them in 1/2 grain increments, and, voila`. I even stuck some of the segregated ones in a 280 Rem, and got good results there, too. I was talking with another guy a year or so ago who'd had a similar problem with bulkies.

You can go about nuts with that segregating stuff, y'know? About halfway through the 500 bullets, with little piles of 149.0-149.5; 149.6-150.0, etc.., sitting all around, I got to thinking 'hmmm, 149.4 is actually closer to 149.6 than it is to 149.1, yet it's in THIS pile, maybe I should put it in THAT pile'. AAARRRGGGHHH!!

Chola:

Glad you posted a pic of your target using the 40 grains of IMR 3031.... that is pretty much the same results that my Rugers seem to give...

Nothing much anyone can argue with on groups like that.. Glad to pass it on...

As I said, I sort of just stumbled upon it at the 12th hour just before I was ready to wing that Rifle and Rebarrel the other one I had ended up with...

I don't question it.. It just works, which is 'close enough for government work" in my opinion....

now hope it brings you some luck in the hunting fields this fall....

cheers
seafire

Okay, Paul. Checked my load notes, and, the 150 P-P's are set at 3.000" o'all, which works fine in MY rifle. Your throat should certainly be able to handle that, but, quadruple check, etc., etc...

Did you have a chance to weigh any of your P-P's? Just curious if you found the same weight variations I did.

R-WEST. Yes, I did notice quite a substantial weight difference in the batch of 150 gr. 7mm Power-points that I have. some were as muxch as two grains IIRC.
Paul B.

I find that in my Ruger 77 Mark II 7x57 I can generally load to an overall cartridge length of about 3.08 to 3.10 inches, using spitzer pointed bullets.

I haven't tried this cartridge length in any other 7x57, such as a Model 70 -- this may be too long for other makes of rifles.

I did try the 40 grains of IMR 3031, and so far it has not yielded good accuracy for me in my rifle. I used it with the 139 gr. Hornady BT Interlock bullet.

I've had the best results, for any bullet weight, with H-414 powder.

Just for grins and giggles, If anyone wonders, since I am such a proponent of IMr 3031 in the 7 Mauser.... my second all around choice would be H 414.. that powder seems to like the 57mm family of cases.. as well as 308 sized cases.....

Just 3031 really cleaned up my two Rugers in 7 x 57..

cheers
seafire