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one of us |
First: Thanks to all of you who have helped earlier (choosing cartridge for scandinavian moose and competition). I have an "ultraprecision, - long range" rifle "in the works". It's going to take me *1 - 2 years to complete the project *(reason: financial and due to process of building). I have allready chosen the receiver. It's made in Norway and is very similar to a Nesica, with a single-row magazine and it is very stiff. I have "been around a bit" when it comes to cartridges, - but now it seems that I have trouble in choosing the cartridge for this project. I would really appreciate your input on what to choose. I have the following requirements: - It must be an inherently accurate cartridge. - It must work in a standard lenght action. - It must be widely distributed/known, - so that I can get ammo. most places in the world (not a wildcat or obscure proprietary design then). - It must be flat-shooting. - It must be able to kill mid sized game (up to 500 pounds) on 3 - 400 yrds. - And last, and not so important, it must not be too much of a barrel-eater. My suggestions are: .338 Win. Mag, .300 Win. Mag., 7mm. Rem. Mag., .270Wby. Mag, 264 Win. Mag., and .257Wby. Mag. As you see, I'm not allergick to belted designs and I have not mentioned any shortmags (Win. or Rem.) - but if anyone have any such suggestions, I'm listening. Looking forward to getting a bit of feedback and hopefully clearing up a bit. Yours. | ||
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| one of us |
Looking at your choices... You might be surprised how "obscure" wby cartridges are in other parts of the world, even in the United States! I would easly pick the 300 win mag. Though a 270 winchester would be a great pick, considering you mentioned "game up to 500 pounds", I think a world wide hunter might be better served with a 300. | |||
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| One of Us |
I would think that the .300 win mag would be a great choice and if you want more power than that then I would look at the .300 Ultra Mag if the rifle will be heavy enough. Brass & Dies can be bought over the net. | |||
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| one of us |
If the rifle weight will be 8 or more pounds, then the .338 Win Mag really is a terrific round and would allow you to go over the 500 pound line with ease. The 338 seems to be more effective at transferring energy to the target than do the 30 mags. My pre-64 M70 with a Krieger SS barrel holds a 2" or better group at 300. Plenty accurate. If sighted at 300 yards, a 338 shooting Federal High Energy 250 grain Noslers will have a max rise of 5.4" at 150 yards and a drop of 12.1 at 400 yards. Easily minute of Elk out to 360 or so yards. | |||
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one of us |
Logically, the availability requirement nixes the Wby cartridges. Barrel eating requirement nixes the 264 and the 7mag. Leaves the 300 and 338 win. The 300 win has an excellent track record for accuracy, and is more available than the 338. I'd buy a 308...... LOL! Dutch. | |||
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| one of us |
Jedi, quote:(I should also like to add the very accurate 7mm Weatherby Magnum to this list) Going by your stated requirements and your list of cartridges then I would choose the .338 Winchester Magnum. Ammo is available everywhere, period. It has a great track record for accuracy, flat shooting, works great in standard length actions(this leaves out all the Ultra Magnums and longer Weatherby’s and the short magnums), is suitable for any game that walks in North America and is one of the easiest cartridges on barrels today. All the other cartridges you stated are great in their own accord and none are so called barrel burners if you don’t live on the ragged edge of velocity reloading. But they all have certain quirks that keep them from being the one I would choose. Lawdog | |||
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| one of us |
7mm Rem Mag it can fire heavy bullets of very high BC fast enough for some really long range work. | |||
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| one of us |
7mm Rem mag or 300 Wby Mag both very popular and will do the job. ![[Wink]](images/icons/wink.gif){kind=icon} | |||
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one of us |
Only one question really, between 7RemMag and 300WinMag: How heavy do you want your bullets to get? I believe 175gr is max for the 7. The 300 can take up to 250gr. Of course 200 or 220gr will give you a little more speed, but the extra-heavy weight is available if you want it. I'm with the majority on this. The 300WinMag is a great cartridge. As a novice reloader I've experienced zero problems reloading, short neck or not. Everything seats nicely to 3.340. Accuracy has been outstanding with stuff ranging from 125gr to 220gr. All this in a bone stock hunting rifle. Good energy to any reasonable range, and with less abuse than a 338. Given the list of options you posted, it's a slam dunk for the old 300WinMag. | |||
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| one of us |
Golly, I gotta tell ya that I think the recoil of the .338 Win Mag is over estimated by those that haven't shot them a lot. The 300 mag rifles tend to be a bit lighter and, I think, tend to recoil more sharply. The 300 Win Mag and 308 Norma Mag (which is a wonderful caliber) seem more uncomfortable to me than the 338 Win Mag (and mine weighs just over 8 pound ready to hunt). The 7mm Rem Mag is a good caliber, but I don't think it delivers as much energy to the target at range because of its smaller diameter. Will certainly kill deer but may be a little small for larger species. If extreme range is the issue (more at 400 and over than under 400), a 30 Mag is probably a good answer if the rifle is heavy enough (both for comfort of recoil and for sighting stability). At lesser ranges and in any situation where the animal is getting larger, I'd opt for the 338. Of course if you hunt in places where the game can eat you if surprized yet ranges can be very long, the .416 Rigby with 350 gr Barnes bullets has a trajectory similar to the .338 and delivers bunches of energy to the target. Cost of cases and bullets becomes a real issue though. Whatever you do, make it YOUR choice and have a ball with it! | |||
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| one of us |
Thank you very much for your input. I have been "staring myself blind" on all factors when choosing a caliber for this rifle... I guess one reason is that, given my specifications, the choices isn't exactly "exotic", and thus "less exciting ..." Thanks to your input I see that a .300 Win. Mag. would be the optimal choice, - I had figured this one out my self, but the choice seemed so "standard" ... I guess there's a reason why it's "so standard" a choice! I'm settling for a .300WM., then - and I'll be aware of the short neck and take this into concideration when the rifle's being made (so that longer bullets can be more optimally seated). Thanks. | |||
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| <Safarischorsch> |
quote:The 8x68S would fit for your requirements but it is probably difficult to get it in the US or in New zealand... So i would take the 338 Lapua MAG! | ||
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| <eldeguello> |
quote:If not important. O.K. But these ARE barrel eaters. The .264 Win. and .257 Weatherby are the worst of this group. For your reqirements, there are several "plain vanilla" standard-head cartridges that would work. Included in these are the .30/'06!!, the .270 Win., and the .280 Remington/7X64mm. I'd try a .280 Improved or 7mm Gibbs! ![[Big Grin]](images/icons/grin.gif){kind=icon} [ 11-12-2003, 15:39: Message edited by: eldeguello ] | ||
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| one of us |
Safarischorsch: I've been interested in the 8x68S for a long time, - utilizing a standard action "to the max", and being a factory cartridge (The .300 and .330 Dakotas being the ideal in design, but have too poor quality brass made for it, and would be too much work to make my self). But it doesn't quite meet my requirements when it comes to being easily available around the world (Canada, Alaska, South Africa and Eastern Europe). If I could count on to always be able to bring my own ammo. I would have chosen either a standard 8x68S or a wildcat based on it, like .338 or .300 OAM or Tooley. (it is possible, though, that I'll have made a barrel so chambered and have a bit of fun with it on the range and where I may bring my own ammo.). Eldeguello: It is most likely that I'll choose .300 Win.Mag. for this rifle, - and this is based on reason and the fine feedback I've gotten from you all. - The .264WM and .257Wby. has lazer trajectories, but is disqualified on the grounds that you mention (and that they are too obscure). ![[Smile]](images/icons/smile.gif){kind=icon} | |||
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| one of us |
Eldeguello: I see your point in choosing a "more standard" cartridge, or an easily fireformed Ackley version. I have been looking hard on the .270 Ackley Improved - being quite close to the .270Wby.Mag. with less powder to burn (does anyone know how close to a .270Wby.?) It is, sadly, no factory cartridge, and I could "be stuck" with using "standard" .270Win. on a hunting-trip abroad. I'm not quite sure what I'll be loosing in accuracy if so were to happen, perhaps someone knows? | |||
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| one of us |
I see that the .338 Lapua Mag. is mentioned. I know of several people that have the fine Sako TRG 42 so chambered and have reported nearly "one-hole 3-shot groups" on 100 meters, and fine three-clowers on 2 and 300 meters ... It is a very accurate rifle and cartridge! But I don't need the power, muzzle-blast, recoil, cost of ammo and large rifle it requires. I do not think the ammo is so readily available everywhere either. In a project where the factors I mention isn't important - just choosing something of the most powerful and accurate there is, - the .338 Lapua Mag. ought to be considered. | |||
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| one of us |
mstarling, Lawdog_Gary: I absolutely see your argument of either choosing a .338 og .300 Win.Mag. - Based on your replies you have helped me to "clear up" a bit - and thus I have been able to come closer to choosing the .300 Win.Mag. The 7mm Wby.Mag. was one of my favorite options for long range work earlier (combining many good factors), I plainly forgot to put it on my list, but as many have commented Wby. cartridges is a bit too "obscure", and ammo could be hard to find in some places (and the 7mm Rem.Mag is very close to it). Savage99: I have "disqualified" the calibers with bores smaller than .270 cal., based on yours and many others comments here. The .270 and .300WSM is the only shortmags that comes close to being on my list, but the .300 Win.Mag. seems to be a wiser choice, since it is one of the more common cartridges to find + it's more than potent enough and because of its proven track record of accuracy. (I would have used a medium lenght action for the WSM's thoug (if I had chosen one)... seating of the longer bullets). | |||
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| one of us |
So 300win mag is more popular than a 7mm rem mag, in Norway? That certainly isn't the case in the USA, in my are the popluarity would be 30-06 270win 7mm rem mag 243win 300win 300weatherby .308 30-30 | |||
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| one of us |
Major Caliber: No, the .300WM isn't the most popular caliber in Norway ... I guess the 7mm Rem Mag is more popular, but ranking very close to eachother. In Norway this would probably be the list (not based on any statistics, just on what I experience being the most common): #1) 30-06 #2).308 Win. #2) 6.5x55 #3) 9.3x62 #4) 7mm Rem. Mag. #5) I guess the .300 Win.Mag. ranks somewhere around here. Perhaps some other Norwegian/Scandinavian knows better? But my point isn't what is the most popular, but rather what is more common to find - so that ammo can be found/bought where I would like to hunt, because I may not be able to bring my own ammo. to all places. I know (have learned) that 7mm Rem.Mag, .300 Win.Mag and .338 Win.Mag. is the most available of those cartridges in question here. The .300WM just seems more OPTIMAL for what I would like to use it for (*based also (*the very reason for posting the question) on comments on this string). | |||
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| one of us |
I have found the same thing re: ammo, the 300 mag is more plentiful and more varried in its loads... and its usually cheaper. | |||
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| <mike aw> |
300 Win mag. | ||
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| <Orion> |
Win .270 martin | ||
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| one of us |
6.5x55. I assume you will use a scope with target type turrets and a laser rangefinder? If so, cranking the correct windage and elevation eliminates the need to use some superdupermagnumboomer. | |||
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| one of us |
I'm pretty sure you just described the .270 winchester. Of course, .30-06 and .308 Win fit the description pretty well too (so would .280, but it's not all that common). The only reason I see to not use one of these 3 is if you will frequently be hunting game over 500 lbs and you implicitely say you are not. If not one of these 3, I would suggest the .300 Win Mag, but I don't see the reason to jump to a big .300 if the game doesn't warrant it and you can get the job done with a lighter / handier rifle. Regards, Lou | |||
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