I was wondering if anyone had a photo of Col. Townsend Whelens actual , personal ,35 Whelen '03 Springfield ??

Roger

I cant believe it !! 120 hits and no-one can find me a photo of one of the most well known and historic rifles ever built ? Surely someone has a photo somewhere ?I remember seeing one of Whelen with the gun in his right hand (parallel to the ground )

Roger

Roger, You might try posting your question in the gunsmithing section or else PM Michael Petrov in Anchorage, AK as he owns at least one of Whelen's Spfld's and has a handle on the whereabouts of many other Spfld sporters.

OK, does anyone have an email address for Michael Petrov ?

Roger

you can look him up in the members directory or his e-mail is mipetrov@acsalaska.net

Thanks Phil,but that email doesn't work.
Any other suggestions >

Roger

My mistake. I wrote an i and it is suppose to be a j. His e-mail is mjpetrov@acsalaska.net

Thanks nug' I've got some old gun digest's,I'll have a scout through them.
I'll try again Phil !

Roger

Roger, If you like old classic Spfld sporters make sure you order one of Michael's books. He is the expert on them.

The November and December of 1962 issues of Guns & Ammo have parts I and II respectively of an article entitled "Colonel Townsend Whelen's Guns... A Rifleman's Battery". I don't know anything about part II, but part I includes pictures and descriptions of 17 of his rifles, but no .35 Whelens.

Kurt

I remenber The part about the rifleman's battery
but I don't have it any more.

Thanks Kurt,I don't suppose you could scan the article if you still have it ,could you ?? I have some old
"Guns and Ammo" from the sixties,I'll have a look through them. Maybe we should go through our old magazines ,record the issue dates, and create an "online library",in some way ?? any thoughts??

Roger

didn't col Whelen use the 400 Whelen before the 35? just curious.

A little tidbit of history for you.

In the early 1920s Frankford Arsenal loaded some 40 caliber soft point bullets into necked-down Cal 30 Model 1906 cylindrical cases. I have one and other collectors do also. Mine is dated 1922 and 1921 dates are known also. One cardboard box is known and is marked ".400 Whelen."

You don't suppose that Col Whelen used his influence to use the facilities at Frankford Arsenal for one of his pet projects, do you??

Later, in the early 1950s, Warren Page mysteriously got his hands on some experimental Frankford Arsenal brass to make his 240 Page. Col Whelen was Page's shooting buddy. . . You do the math.

Ray

Yes ,wetdog,apparently he had his .400 converted to .35 in the '50s.

Information thanks to Michael Petrov

Phil (458win ),its not so much the springfields ,but classic rifles of that era; Griffin and Howe and safari rifles in particular.Also rifles built on p14/m17 actions.
Shooting as a sport or recreation is one thing but if I'm trophy hunting I prefer to use a classic rifle in a classic calibre just like they did back in the day.

These new whizz bang ,cant miss, shoot a mile,indestructible plastic things just dont do it for me !..........." I'm gettin' too old for this s@#t !! "

Roger

quote:

Originally posted by wetdog2084:
didn't col Whelen use the 400 Whelen before the 35? just curious.

The progression was the .38-Whelen, the .400-Whelen and then the .35-Whelen. Had Winchester continued to make the 275-grain .38-72 bullet there was a good chance that the .400 and .35-Whelen would never have happened.

How about the early 1920s article in AR when Whelen stated that the 35 was the first cartridge that he designed?"

Ray

This is the rifle in question that was converted from .400 to .35 in 1950, it belongs to a friend. Sorry for the poor photo, my pocket camera.

quote:

Originally posted by Cheechako:
How about the early 1920s article in AR when Whelen stated that the 35 was the first cartridge that he designed?" Ray

If you will quote the issue I'll look that up. May I suggest you read,
http://www.z-hat.com/smashing_the_headspace_myth.htm

I don't have the exact issue number in front of me but I seem to recall that it was 1923, perhaps the one that you mentioned.

All of the Frankford Arsenal 1921 and 1922 headstamped 400 Whelen cartridges that I know of have a shoulder diameter of .457 to .458. I know of 3 different bullets used, a RN SP, a hollow point that appears to be a Western Tool & Copper Works, and a solid.

The box at Frankford is dated July 23, 1923.

There are several known 35 Whelen cartridges loaded in the same FA 21 and FA 22 headstamped cases but, so far, nothing has been found to indicate their association with Frankford Arsenal.

Since Whelen and Howe both worked at Frankford during this time period it's not surprising to find many things of a non-military nature that were made using the Arsenal materials and facilities.

Ray

I pulled my files on the Whelen cartridges and there is no doubt that the .38-Whelen was first then the .400-Whelen and then later the .35-Whelen. When Whelen introduced the .35-Whelen he clearly stated that they followed the same lines used when developing the .400-Whelen.

Michael

I don't question your timing of the Whelen cartridges.

With Frankford Arsenal having been close in 1977 and records scattered here and there, I doubt if we'll ever find out what those 400 and 35 cartridges really are.

Ray