How much difference in performance and accuracy is there between the Sierra 165 grain HPBT and SBT? I bought the SBT's last year and found the tips took a beating on the in and out of the magazine. I bought some of the HPBT's to try this year. I moved to these because at the range I'm hunting the 150g Nosler BT's were making a mess of the meat. I was planning on trying some loads that worked well with 168SMK's in terms of accuracy. Suggestions would be great.

MLC
I have used the 165 Sierra HPBT in the 308 for many years on many animals. It is a little bit stouter than the 165 Spz. I have shot deer antelope and pigs with it. It has performed perfectly. I have never recovered a bullet.

My latest thinking in order to make my rifle life as complicated and interesting as possible is to carry both of those loads as they shoot the same out to 200 yds.

Then the SBT's will be for long shots and the hollow points will stay in the mag for regular deer hunting which is at pretty close range.

Savage 99
I have taken several antelope at 350 to 375yds and one at @550yds with no problems. This was in a 308 Steyr SSG with the fairly mild load of 39,5gr. of IMR 3031. Still had plenty of expansion.
This load shoots real good in H&K 91's M1-A's and FN-FAL's too.

Over on 24 hrcampfire the Gamekings are getting beat up by some. The writer, John Barness, says they are only good for varmints.

Some shoot that 165 SBT at much higher velocities and it may be too soft for short range high velocity impact.

I bumped up to the 165's(from the 150 nosBT) since popular opinion seems to be the heavier moderate velocity bullets do a neater more thorough job at closer ranges. I have a maximum 200 yard shots from my stands though the ones I've gotten have been under 100.The last one I got was with a SBT Gameking at +/-50 yards. It showed none of the explosive fragmentation that the Noslers did at a similar range.
What bullets do the fellows over at the campfire champion?
Are they using a 308 or more 300 win mag velocity for comparison?

[ 10-16-2003, 09:12: Message edited by: MLC ]

MLC,

Just go to the forums at www.24hourcampfire.com and search the forums. There is more than one topic on the matter in various places.

The GK's are bashed pretty bad over there. I like them but have used the flat base which they call Pro Hunter for the most part.

Crazy things happen with bullets anyway. It's not an exact science.

If there was an 165 gr .30" Pro Hunter that's what I would use.

MLC, Forget the Gamekings, and try some 168 Matchkings, 42grs. RE15. Yeah, I know, they're not a hunting bullet, but funny thing is, they have the same jacket thickness as the gameking, both have a tendancy to lose their jackets, as most boattail bullets do, but they are devastating on any game in the USA, I did a test with 150MKs in my 708, shooting at 3 water filled milk jugs, to see if they would pencil through as some would suggest, not so, the jugs were totally obliterated and a nice quarter sized exit hole in the 3rd jug, and of course the MKs are very accurate, they shoot in the 4s in my 708 S/S Rem. Check out some recent threads about the bullet and hunters that have used them on LONGRANGEHUNTING.com, Remember, If Sierra sold these bullets as hunting bullets, they wouldn't sell as many bullets, would they. Jay

Befor I heard how worthless the gameking are, I killed a nice 5x6 Roosevelt bull with the 180's out of my 300 win. Broke the off side shoulder with a quartering away shot. My longest shot on a big game animal was taken with the same 300 on a blacktail buck using the 165 gr hpbt. I'm not into pissing matches, I'm not trying to start one. I don't really shoot light for caliber bullets so maybe that explains partly why I haven't had the negative experiences with the game kings. I'm alway amazed how some guy jump from ballistic tips to failsafe when a good old fashioned lead core is the best of both worlds. I guess marketing makes the world go round.

[ 10-18-2003, 03:29: Message edited by: Rogue 6 ]

The 165 HPBT GameKing is a hell of a good bullet out of a 308. I shoot it at 2750 fps from a 25" barrel. Have yet to recover one and all game hit with it has been DRT. For that matter I have had good luck with the 150 SHP GameKing on deer. The 150 GameKing if used in a one of various 300 magnums might not be a good idea, but I believe the 165 HPBT would work just fine from a 300 mag. Both are extremely accurate.

Shoot Safe, Shoot Straight......RiverRat

I understand the HPBT is a little more stout than the soft-point although I've never shot an animal with either one.

What I CAN say about the HPBT and have a leg to stand on is that it's an accurate somebody. Many years ago during a highpower match, I shot a 198 at 600 yards using that bullet with IMR4064 in a Krieger barreled M1. OK, a really long time ago

Cheers!

Redial

If you really want to know how good, or different, the various 165 gr. SBT, HPBT GameKings and the 168 gr. MatchKings are I suggest you contact Sierra's Tech. Reps and ask them. ( 1-800-223-8799).
Here's what they told me. The MatchKing is not recommended as a game bullet by Sierra. What's more they are more expensive than the game bullets listed, so why would they recommend cheaper bullets unless they really were better ?
The jackets and cores on the GameKings are not the same as the jackets and cores on the MatchKings. The jackets are thiner and harder and the cores are harder on the MatchKings than the GameKings. The hollow point opening is much smaller on the MatchKings.
This results in much different performance at impact. To open a MatchKing anything like a standard game bullet, one needs an impact speed of 2300 fps. plus. There is nothing in the bullet to limit this expansion once it starts. Any impact speed below that, the MatchKing will tend to tip over and tumble becuse most of the bullets weight is in it's butt. E

I don't consider the Match King a game bullet and I'm not a Sierra fan, but any bullet will kill a deer 99 times out of 100...Deer just are not that bullet resistant...I have killed many deer with 22L.R. in the heart and lung area...and thats why this arguement persist...

Elk are a different story, and deserve a premium bullet IMO....

Depending on the time and place my father killed lots of deer with a 22rf during the depression. He always said you shoot them through the lungs with a 22 or his 300 savage they all run between 50 and 100 yards and drop dead. Bullet placement is the key more often then the bullet it self.