quote:

Originally posted by Macifej:
What's rubbish Carcano...?

The data is loaded into Ammoguide by "contributors" not the publisher.

Ah, thanks for explaining. The Wikipedia principle thus: garbage in -> garbage out.

This comment is not to disparage the (very interesting and educational) thread as such; it only qualifies the opening "source", so to speak.

Carcano

If you have interest, you may consider logging on to Ammoguide and updating those calibers of which you have additional knowledge. Just like AR, it's only as good as the information contained there-in.

What happened to the 8mm calibres

The rise and fall of calibres are sometimes as a result of specific circumstances and not because they did not perform well enough. In the sporting or hunting world, we see clearly the preference of the American/British group favouring imperial calibres, whilst in Europe they like their metric calibres. However there are a few exceptions today, such as the ever so popular 7 mm Remington Magnum in the USA. The goal of this article is to give an overall view specifically on the 8 mm family of cartridges and why they are not so widely used anymore. Let us look at 2 standard calibres, the 8 x 57 mm and the 8 x 60 mm, and 2 magnum calibres, the 8 x 68 mm and the 8 mm Rem Magnum. For brevity sake, I have ignored the other less common 8 mm offerings, as well as all the 8 mm wildcats.

Germany fought 2 world wars with the 8 x 57 mm Mauser (all the above mentioned calibres were hunting cartridges ) ... quite remarkable, it speaks of excellent design and service by this calibre. The 8 x 57 mm Mauser was adopted as the German service rifle way back in 1888 - this was the date when it all began for the 8 mm family that was to follow. Initially it had a diameter of .318" but it was later changed to .323" in 1905. Little could they foresee the major impact that their 1888 design would have on the gun world. It was used both by the military and by hunters.

Hitler denounced the Treaty of Versailles in 1934 and started with rapid re-armament in June 1935. This time, Germany went to war with the short version of the Mauser, the Karbiner 98 Kurz - it had a 23.6 inch barrel instead of a 29 inch barrel, as it was too long for trench warfare. Between 1934 and 1945, over 14 million were manufactured. While reloading was slower than with a .303 Br, the German Kar-98ks accuracy was more than enough to make up for it. The Mausers rate of fire was 15 rounds per minute, whereas for the British .303, it was 20 rounds per minute, but with a detachable magazine holding 10 rounds. The Mauser had a magazine capacity of only 5, and so stripper-clips were used to reload quicker, but it was obviously slower than the .303 Br, where one could just insert a fully loaded magazine of bigger capacity. It is interesting to know, that just before the start of World War 2, the Germans replaced the 154 gr spitzer bullet at 2,880 fps with a 198 gr spitzer boatail bullet at 2,575 fps. The main reason was that the bigger powder charge of the 154 gr load produced excessive muzzle flash in the shorter barrel. At the same time they gained better sectional density even though they sacrificed velocity - overall a much more lethal and devastating load ... more momentum and better penetration whilst the lower velocity was less destructive on the bullet. Norma of Sweden still offers ammo for the 8 x 57 mm - a 196 grainer at 2,526 fps, which is ideal for larger antelope at short to medium range. Ironic enough, there was an influx of military 8 x 57 mm rifles into America after the war, and so American ammo manufacturers started to produce ammo for this calibre, but it was totally under loaded and thus its popularity waned against the 30-06 Spr. Here is their load with a 170 gr bullet and it is also happens to be their only load for the calibre:

IMR 4350 --- 43 gr --- 2,315 fps --- 36,800 CUP

After Germany lost the First World War, the Peace Treaty of Versailles limited the number of 8 mm Mauser rifles to a mere 100,000; barely adequate for Germanys defense and sporting fraternity. Strangely enough, sporting rifles of sportsmen were included as well. To comply with the treaty and to save many rifles, it was decided to redesign the calibre, by extending the case to 60 millimeters. This was a minor change, and original barrels were simply re-chambered - everything else remained the same. Amazing you might say, the perception to control or the illusion to control the German Folk. So, the 8 x 60 mm Mauser became the new sporting rifle of Germany and it gained immediate popularity - not much of a choice. Luckily for us, the 7 x 57 mm Mauser escaped the same fate, and continues to be popular even till today in South Africa.

Ballistically, the 8 x 60 mms longer case with its greater powder capacity, was capable of a higher velocity, shooting the same bullet. Its popularity spilled over to Austria, Belgium and France. The sporting version of the Mauser, model A and B, became very sought after amongst hunters the world over. K98 actions were sold to various rifle builders, including the British gun trade. It is estimated that overall, more than a 100 million standard military Mauser 98 actions were built and about 126,400 sporter Mauser actions were built by the Oberndorf factory. Today, the custom built rifle trade is thriving, particularly in Europe - The Model 98 Mauser action is still the undisputed choice for hunting rifles. The ingenuity of the Mauser design is what makes it so special, such as controlled round feeding, secure extraction and its excellent gas deflection system.

The 8 x 60 mm was dropped from production in Germany in the late 1950s, but Belgium were still making it for a good 20 years more. We should bear in mind that the Mauser factory was destroyed after WW2 and Germany was in turmoil. This cartridge was ideal for Europes big game such as Red Stag. Bullets vary from 154 grains to 227 grains and so the 8 x 60 mm rifle could be used for both long and short range work. Another popular bullet weight for the calibre was a 185 grainer. With a heavy bullet, such as a 227 grainer, the biggest antelope everywhere could be hunted for meat. The 8 x 60 mm saw use in the former Belgium colonies in Africa as well as in the RSA and the former SWA. Belgium and French hunters were not allowed to own 30-06 Spr rifles, as it was considered a military calibre, and hence the 8 x 60 mm was the closest rival. Sadly, about 5 years ago, RWS announced that they have discontinued their factory load, firing a 187 gr bullet at 2,810 fps, which is a very hot load in my opinion. However, I did still see some RWS ammo a year ago on Formalitos shelf. Handloads with a 200 gr Nosler Partition bullet will yield around 2,400 fps at safe pressure levels.

Another German design, was the 8 x 68 mm for long range work. With its bigger case, it could propel the heaviest 8 mm bullets at what was considered magnum velocities, way back then. The most popular bullet weight was a 224 gr soft point bullet - the standard factory load. I consider the stronger constructed 220 gr Swift A-Frame bullet to be the optimum for this calibre (2,700 fps). The 8 x 68 mm has the same powder capacity as the 300 H&H. The 8 x 68 mm was introduced in 1938 and it was setting the standards during those early years. However, it never gained a strong following in North America, for its elk and moose, or in Africa for Eland. Its main stronghold has been confined to Europe. The 8 x 68 mm was however popular with French and Spanish sportsmen, although relatively few were built up to WW2. In America though, the 300 Weatherby Magnum, introduced in 1948, provided stiff competition, whilst the 300 Win Mag became only available in 1963. Today the 8 x 68 mm calibre is declining in sales even though it is perhaps the most potent 8 mm calibre, shooting a 224 gr bullet. Ballistically, I would much rather prefer using a heavier bullet, than the other magnum calibres that mostly offer factory loaded ammo with 180 gr bullets. The neck of the 8 x 68 mm case is long in comparison with the 300 Win Mag, and is thus better able to hold a long bullet, such as a 224 grainer. 8 x 68 mm ammo has become scarce though, but it is still offered by RWS. The following load comes from a Rottweil reloading manual:

Min Load: 60 gr Rottweil R907 -- 224 gr RWS-KS bullet -- AOL 85.1 mm -- 2,477 fps
Max Load: 63 gr Rottweil R907 -- 224 gr RWS-KS bullet -- AOL 85.1 mm -- 2,625 fps

Remington introduced their 8 mm Rem magnum in 1977. It was based on the 375 H&Hs big case, just like the 300 H&H - 72.39 mm, about 4.4 mm longer than the German 8 x 68 mm. Strangely enough, it also did not become popular as its use was limited to the biggest North American game. Again, an excellent design. Only one proviso, like with all magnums, it should be used with strongly constructed bullets to prevent them blowing up on big and tough game. Poor bullets can ruin a calibres reputation ... we should never forget, the bullet is doing the killing and bullet performance is what counts ultimately. Initially, Remington offered 2 bullet weights - 185 grains and 220 grains, but the only factory ammunition offered today by Remington is a 200 gr Swift A-Frame bullet at 2,900 fps. It yields a fairly sharp recoil; more than the .300 Win Mag. Col. Craig Boddington, an American gun writer an avid hunter says .... "The 8 mm Remington Magnum has become one of my favorite hunting cartridges" - for elk, that is. Furthermore, he prefers handloading as he believes factory loads, i.e. 200 grain bullets, are not up to the calibres potential. What does he mean? ... Let me quote the man - "The Big Eight needs handloads with 220-grain bullets to reach its full potential". The message is very clear; increase your bullet weight. I love my 300 H&H, which also gives sterling performance with 200 and 220 grainers, but at somewhat lower velocities, as its case holds about 15% less powder. The 300 H&H became quite popular in South Africa and other former English African colonies, between its introduction in 1920 and 1963, when former British colonies became independent and the British had to leave.

A last thought ... of all the 8 mm calibres, the 8 x 68 is really the only one that promoted shooting the heaviest bullet, i.e. 224 grains, with a sectional density of .307.Most of the .300 Magnums came with 180 and 200 grain factory loads, with the exception of the 300 H&H, as Winchester used to offer a 220 gr load at 2,620 fps, but no more. I do believe that an eland needs a strongly constructed 220 grainer. I remember very well one day during 1977, when I was shooting on the bench with the late Willie Klotz, when he said to me that the 8 x 68 mm was for the connoisseur, and that it was quite unique in what it offers ... I was bedazzled, I did not quite understand and nor did he offer an explanation, perhaps because it was so obvious to him. Being a German gunsmith his whole life, he regarded himself as an expert in any event. What could the benefits possibly be over the 300 magnums?

* It is better suited to be built on a modified standard K98 action, as it has a shorter case than a 300 H&H or a 300 Weatherby Magnum.

* It yields lower pressure than the .300 Magnums, as the diameter is bigger and hence the expanded volume gets bigger as the bullet leaves the case when fired.

* It is a genuine Mauser design on a Mauser action.

* Some might consider its beltless case an advantage.

I would like to throw a stone in the bush now ... Did Winchesters .338 Win Mag, introduced in 1958, not perhaps occupy the US market for bullet weights between 225 and 250 grain, being the calibre of choice for long range big antelope, such as elk? A bit bigger bore than an 8 mm, but still a contender. Especially the 250 grainer in .338", with its good sectional density of .313, launched at 2,660 fps. However, the .338 Win Mag could not get itself entrenched in the SA market though, because of the arms embargo period (1979- 1994). It may change slowly now, but I think the 375 H&H has already captured that section of the market for bigger game and the fact that the .338 is not legal on buffalo.

Who will develop the next 8 mm calibre? Who is promoting the 8 mm today? Remington? I dont think so, as the one they have is good enough. Will Winchester perhaps go for a 8 mm after all the years during which they never had one? I doubt it. Will any European country? I dont think so, as the 8 x 68 mm is well designed. The 8 x 60 mm is history, as no manufacturer chambers for it anymore, but in my opinion, just as good as a 30-06 Spr. So, it looks like the 8 mm market has become stagnant. It has nothing to do with design. Existing rifles will be inherited by the next generation, who might use them or the youth might even have their own preferences. Once bullets and cases are becoming scarce, the end is near. I guess, sad circumstances killed the 8 mm and the present day mania of manufacturers to push lighter bullets faster as opposed to sacrifice some velocity for increased bullet weight. With scarcity of components and the high cost of imports, the most viable option seems to be the 300 H&H, if you have a need for a 220 grain bullet, but you will have to handload as all factory ammo only comes in 180 gr bullets. Also, no factory made rifles are offered anymore in 300 H&H - you have to get one custom built if you want a new one. We as hunters, must voice our opinions as to what we want. Most gun writers will write what their masters, who pay them, would like to hear. The new wave now is the short magnums by Winchester, which will most probably supercede the recent wave that Remington had with its ultra magnums, but sadly they too, by virtue of a short case neck and shoulder, cannot offer the hunter 220 gr loads.

John Pondoro Taylor already said in the 1930s that we had too many calibres, when he proposed that we only keep a bakers dozen (13). A tough call ... especially for today, with its unabated proliferation of calibres!

Warrior

quote:

Originally posted by Blair338/378:
Mac,

That's ancient history..........

The only decent European 8mm is the 8x68S

You seem to be in agreement with the late German gunsmith Willie Klotz.

Warrior

quote:

I would never feel undergunned with an 8x60S!

Certainly not. The 196 gr bullet in this caliber is plenty medicine for any game.

Warrior

RWS is still producing the 8x60S with the 181grs Doppelkern-Bullet.
I have done a lot of reloading with the 8x60S, it is no problem to get pressure tested loads with the 196-200grs bullets up to 2700fps, and 2550fps with the 225grs!

quote:

Originally posted by carcano91:

quote:

Originally posted by Macifej:
Interesting comparison of the major 8mm cartridges of the late 19th century. All of them could be loaded to modern performance levels and brass is either available or easily formable.

European 8mm's

Oh my - what RUBBISH.

I wonder about the gall of the chap publishing this shtuff who did not even bother to get the bullet weights right. Sheesh.

Carcano

That would be me - AmmoGuide is my site. The bullet weights are exactly right. Not close - exactly correct. To the grain. Period.

And before you reply as hastily as you posted, you might want to actually read the page (if one's attention span permits it), especially the description of the tool and how it works above the graphs. Most credible people find that it helps to actually understand something before you condemn it.

Lastly, Sheesh back.

Who knows where 8x75R brass can be purchased in the US..??

No one...??

Nice piece of wood Ray. Where did you find it?

Hey Doug!!!!! good to hear from you. Hope you had a good T-Day. I got that from a guy in N.C. who made it for me. I was supposed to get Maple but Black Walnut came instead. I am still waiting to get it finnished. I am sorry I do not have his info, I am at work right now. I have to get it bedded before I do the final finish on it. One of these days.

I have a Siammese mauser in mint shape (action & barrel) and had made very usable 8x52R Siammese cases from 45/70 brass. Volume of these cases is approx 2 grs GREATER than Winchester 8x57 brass. I do not deliberatly load the siammese mauser to the same pressure that a std 98 action will handle but they will handle moderate loads that are more than powerfull enough for deer,elk black bear etc. I find it a lot of fun getting some of these old rifles turned back into useful "shooters".

quote:

Originally posted by snowman:
I have a Siammese mauser in mint shape (action & barrel) and had made very usable 8x52R Siammese cases from 45/70 brass. Volume of these cases is approx 2 grs GREATER than Winchester 8x57 brass. I do not deliberatly load the siammese mauser to the same pressure that a std 98 action will handle but they will handle moderate loads that are more than powerfull enough for deer,elk black bear etc. I find it a lot of fun getting some of these old rifles turned back into useful "shooters".

Excellent!! maybe you could post some photos of the rifle and loaded cartridges, etc....???

I'm gathering up components for a build myself. Decided to do an 8x56R HM since I couldn't find any reliable source of 8x75RS brass. I'm making a run of .329" x 175 grain HX bullets. Have new brass from PRVI and LW has the .329" barrels.

Big Fun!!

If you are looking for 8x75RS brass, you can take 9,3x74R and reform them in a normal 8x75die! No problem!

quote:

Originally posted by Monastery-Forester:
If you are looking for 8x75RS brass, you can take 9,3x74R and reform them in a normal 8x75die! No problem!

Ja! Danke...the 9.3 x 74R brass is pretty light stuff...think I'll order some proper brass direct from Europe...

I´m just reading Thomas Pakenham´s book, The Boer War.
Is the 8x57 the cartridge the Boers used in the Mauser rifles they bought from Germany just before the war started?

quote:

Originally posted by Arild Iversen:
Is the 8x57 the cartridge the Boers used in the Mauser rifles they bought from Germany just before the war started?

No, the Boers shot the 7x57 in their Mausers.

- mike

Thank you Mike, sorry for the little OT.

I have personaly abandoned my long time favorite; the .30-06, in favor of an old Spandau Mauser '98 in 8x57. Has quickly become my favorite bolt gun. Not that anyone gives a rats a$$, but just figured I'd throw in my 2 cents. Still experimenting with bullets for it however.

quote:

old Spandau Mauser '98 in 8x57

Lets see some macro photos of the beasty...

quote:

Originally posted by Arild Iversen:
I´m just reading Thomas Pakenham´s book, The Boer War.

His book The Scramble for Africa is good too.

I would like to read those books too. I think I'll search for them.

I also like this discussion - it's very interesting since I have lately become interested in the 8mm in all its variations, but particularly the 8x57, 8x60S, and a wildcat the 323 Hollis.

I've got a new reamer and new Redding dies for the Hollis, but no rifle yet. But I do have the action, stock, and barrel blank - ready to be assembled. This is basically the ballistic equivilant to the 8x68S, but uses the 308 Norma brass, so it will fit almost any standard magnum action with no modifications, such as the Ruger, or the CZ medium magnum, or a MK X with a magnum bolt face. The 8x68S is a neat cartridge but requires a special action. The 323 Hollis achieves the same thing using a readily available action with no modifications at all.

The 8x68S has been described as the perfect cartridge for the 8mm afficionado, THE cartridge for the medium bore connoisseur. If that's true, then the 323 Hollis is the same to the handloader.

Soon I'll have one or two 8x57s. I've got one in the making on a MK X action, some pre chambered barrel that I got a deal on, maker unknown, a Hogue stock, Gentry safety, Timney trigger, and-so-forth.

Another on a CZ 550 action from Brownells, with the factory three-position safety, a take-off factory walnut stock, and a pac-nor stainless barrel that's a clone of the factory contour. They traced my CZ 6.5x55 barrel.

I'm really looking forward to putting them to good use.

KB

quote:

Originally posted by Kabluewy:
...a wildcat the 323 Hollis.

I've got a new reamer and new Redding dies for the Hollis, but no rifle yet. But I do have the action, stock, and barrel blank - ready to be assembled. This is basically the ballistic equivilant to the 8x68S, but uses the 308 Norma brass, so it will fit almost any standard magnum action with no modifications, such as the Ruger, or the CZ medium magnum, or a MK X with a magnum bolt face. The 8x68S is a neat cartridge but requires a special action. The 323 Hollis achieves the same thing using a readily available action with no modifications at all.

The 8x68S has been described as the perfect cartridge for the 8mm afficionado, THE cartridge for the medium bore connoisseur. If that's true, then the 323 Hollis is the same to the handloader.

KB

KB, educate me, please... Other than the attraction of having something different, what is the advantage of a .325 Hollis over an 8mm Rem Mag??

I know the Remington was never all that popular, but in terms of being the ballistic equivalent of an 8x68S, it sure does the job. Correctly headstamped cases can still be had, which will not only save the hassle of forming cases, but also save potential problems when passing borders with over-zealous control personnel.

These days, finding an action of .375 H&H length is not really an issue. So finding a suitable home for an 8mm Rem Mag should not be impossible.

- mike

Long thread - I have to give my 2 cents (I'll make it Eurocents, so this is a more valuable post than it was were it written by an American ).

I don't think the 8mm is dead - nor that it ever will die.
When looking at the performance of the calibers, they seem pretty much never to fail the users, and they are available in many a variety suiting many different hunting situations. Of course, talking about an 8mm, it is not suited for elephant! However, in the mid-range and upper mid-range you should always be able to find an 8mm that suits your needs.

I'm curious about the comparison 8mm v. .30cal, as the 8mm would to my mind be closer to .338. This is probably due to the popularity and actual use of the calibers. By which I mean that .30-06 is used about on same type of game as the 8mms.

One forte of the 8mms for sure is the availability of good bullets in various weights. The problem seems to be to find heavy bullets, those heavier than 200grs - they are few, indeed. However, looking at the performance of the 200grs bullets I doubt if heavier are very much needed in fact.

My experience with the 8mm is limited to the 8,2x53R which is a necked-up 7,62x53R. 200grs @ 2525fps.
Unfortunately, I have not shot many animals at all, but the performance has always been impeccable, and with very low recoil which I like!

Perhaps some think that there should be a newer 8mm designed, but I don't think that a cartridge being old makes it any worse!
For sure, the old designs work on lower pressures and lower velocities, but again, looking at the practical performance I cannot really subscribe to such a demand myself.
And as we've seen with some of the longer variants, for sure there is plenty of power and flat-shooting 8mms available.

I've seen an 8x75R loaded round in Africa, left behind by a client who used it in a Blaser Single shot. It was certainly an impressive looking round and I assume would be perfect for the largest soft skinned game.

quote:

Originally posted by Macifej:

quote:

Originally posted by Monastery-Forester:
If you are looking for 8x75RS brass, you can take 9,3x74R and reform them in a normal 8x75die! No problem!

Ja! Danke...the 9.3 x 74R brass is pretty light stuff...think I'll order some proper brass direct from Europe...

8x57R is all you need Mac!

If you choose to persist and need some help getting the stuff pm me and i'll see what I can do to help.

Regards,

GH

quote:

Originally posted by mho:

quote:

Originally posted by Kabluewy:
...a wildcat the 323 Hollis.

I've got a new reamer and new Redding dies for the Hollis, but no rifle yet. But I do have the action, stock, and barrel blank - ready to be assembled. This is basically the ballistic equivilant to the 8x68S, but uses the 308 Norma brass, so it will fit almost any standard magnum action with no modifications, such as the Ruger, or the CZ medium magnum, or a MK X with a magnum bolt face. The 8x68S is a neat cartridge but requires a special action. The 323 Hollis achieves the same thing using a readily available action with no modifications at all.

The 8x68S has been described as the perfect cartridge for the 8mm afficionado, THE cartridge for the medium bore connoisseur. If that's true, then the 323 Hollis is the same to the handloader.

KB

KB, educate me, please... Other than the attraction of having something different, what is the advantage of a .325 Hollis over an 8mm Rem Mag??

I know the Remington was never all that popular, but in terms of being the ballistic equivalent of an 8x68S, it sure does the job. Correctly headstamped cases can still be had, which will not only save the hassle of forming cases, but also save potential problems when passing borders with over-zealous control personnel.

These days, finding an action of .375 H&H length is not really an issue. So finding a suitable home for an 8mm Rem Mag should not be impossible.

- mike

Mike,
I already mostly explained my reasons. I remember once watching some young fellow at the range trying to sight in his 8mm Rem mag. It was an ordeal just to watch him twitch and flinch, while burning up almost two boxes of ammo. He finally gave up.

That thing was a horrific boomer. I know the 323 Hollis is a magnum too, as well as the 8x68S, but I suppose it's a state of mind too.

I started accumulating the parts to have a gunsmith make a 8x68S for me, but I could never get past the magazine width/length, feed rails, action length, bolt face and other feeding issues. So I gave up on it and sold all the parts. This discouragment was primarily brought about because I had several standard length Magnum actions, which fed the standard belted magnum cartridges very well, with no gunsmithing modifications or tweeking needed for feeding or functioning issues.

A cartridge that had been on my wish list for a long time was the 308 Norma, but while considering the 8X68S, I had accumulated lots of 220gr 8mm bullets, and I had 250 or so pieces of new 308 Norma brass. About that time I met a fellow who uses the Hollis for elk hunting. Oh well - timing and circumstance and 2,000 8mm 220gr bullets brought me to replace the 308 Norma on my wish list with the 323 Hollis.

So I committed to the project when I bought the reamer and dies. The way I figure it, I would buy dies anyway, and the reamer cost is OK when you compare it to the cost of the special parts and gunsmith work to get a 8x68S to work. Besides, I may be able to sell the reamer later, and I simply see no reason to search out or use a longer action when a standard length will do just fine - just use a cartridge that fits it. I still think its a better idea for me than the 8mm Rem or the 8x68S because I want to use the actions I already have.

Also, if I want to cross a border with a rifle, I'll just pick a different rifle that isn't a wildcat.

I could have chosen the wildcat 8mm on 338WM brass, but then that would be too close to the 338WM - - wouldn't it?

KB

quote:

Originally posted by Ghubert:

quote:

Originally posted by Macifej:

quote:

Originally posted by Monastery-Forester:
If you are looking for 8x75RS brass, you can take 9,3x74R and reform them in a normal 8x75die! No problem!

Ja! Danke...the 9.3 x 74R brass is pretty light stuff...think I'll order some proper brass direct from Europe...

8x57R is all you need Mac!

If you choose to persist and need some help getting the stuff pm me and i'll see what I can do to help.

Regards,

GH

Thanks GH....let me see how I do with the 8x56R...I might want to have one of each...

KB, sounds like a good project.

Both the 8x68S and the 8mm Rem Mag can be somewhat "lively" in the recoil department. Not really cartridges for the recoil shy. On the positive side, I happen to believe the increase in bullet diameter makes a difference on heavy game. It seems to me, the big 8's offer the perfect compromise between trajectory and large'ish bullet diameter.

Good luck with your Hollis, it sounds like an awesome cartridge.

- mike

Say GH..!! Are you using an 8x57 of some provenance that you wanna show us..??

quote:

Originally posted by Macifej:

quote:

old Spandau Mauser '98 in 8x57

Lets see some macro photos of the beasty...

Wish I could Macifej, I need to get a camera. It's a '1916 Spandau, with a turned barrel to remove the steps. Has a bolt handle with a couple of semi flat spots on the inside, that a shootin buddie said was an African style for better perchase. Never seen one like it before. Anyone heard of this before? The stock looked exactly like a Winchester model '54 stock, until I had my stock building buddie reshape it to resemble the old British style rifles of Africa. Has old steel Redfield aperature peeps on it. One of my all time favorite rifles. Anyone else have any 8mm rifle pics? Cheers!

quote:

Originally posted by Macifej:

quote:

Originally posted by Monastery-Forester:
If you are looking for 8x75RS brass, you can take 9,3x74R and reform them in a normal 8x75die! No problem!

Ja! Danke...the 9.3 x 74R brass is pretty light stuff...think I'll order some proper brass direct from Europe...

Why not? I order my Leupold scopes from the USA!

8mm cartridges are strongly europeans,8mm rem magnum its just copy

I'm not sure why some people have the idea that an 8mm Rem Mag is a brute and totally unable to shoot accuratly. The 8mm Rem is between the 300 wby and the 340 wby. So is its recoil. All of these can be handled with a bit of practice. I have and shoot several 8mms. starting at the top I have an 8mm Rem, an 8x68 an 8mm 338 (identical to the 8x68 ballistically) 8mm-06 an 8x5R Siamese and several 8x57s. The 8x68 does not take a special action. Many of them have been built on reg 98 mauser actions. The diameter of the case head is slightly smaller that the H&H cases head but any mauser . Win 70 pre 64,p-17 bolt face can be easily opened up to handle the 8x68 case(or its little brother the 6.5x68). All are excellent hunting rounds. Even my old Siamese mauser is effective . Cases are made from 45-70 brass and case capacity is slightly greater than the 8x57. While I would prefer to stay away from any real hi pressure loads. std 8x57 velocities are easily obtainable. Read 30-06 type performance for those who don't speak the 8mm language. A good 200 gr bullet at 2600 + fps is pretty effective on most game anywhere in this world.

Just back from my gunsmith, checking on his work on my new 8*68S
This one will be very close to the original 7(!) rifles in this caliber built by Mauser Werke in 1941, just before the war stopped all production of civil rifles. Verdamt Adolf!
My rifle will of course be built on a regulary Oberndorf M98 action, not the magnum action used for these rifles. The 8*68 cartridge was considered too large for the standard action, the english bulit their 375 on these actions, though

In the recent years I've played with the 8*60S, the 8mm-06 wildcat, the 8*68S, 9,3*62M and the 9,3*64 Brenneke. All superb hunting round without that silly belt...
Very effective rounds burning medium powders, getting high velocity out of 22-24 inch barrels.
Lazzeroni go screw

M

quote:

Originally posted by Blair338/378:
Mac,

That's ancient history..........

The only decent European 8mm is the 8x68S

I agree!

Decent - yes - and mostly because it has no war history, and it's plenty fast. In the right action, with adequate supply of brass - excellent.

KB

My 8x68S is built on a standard Sako Magnum action. It shoots lights out w/Barnes 180 TSX and RWS brass. No feeding issues whatsoever. We did do a minor extractor modification to accomodate the small head size but that's it. It's a great cartridge.
sbsmith

An 8X75 in a Ruger No. 1 would make a hell of a rig, I am thinking ...

quote:

Originally posted by carcano91:

Oh my - what RUBBISH.

I wonder about the gall of the chap publishing this shtuff who did not even bother to get the bullet weights right. Sheesh.

Carcano

That would be me. And I wonder about the intelligence of someone who doesn't understand the word "average". Or maybe it's the CONCEPT that escapes them. Either way, it's a wonder.