The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Medium Bore Rifles If Penetration was the only Factor.....Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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If penetration was the only factor, much of my hunting could be done with a 160FS from a 7x57@2650. or for longer range a 7mmRemmag160tsx. How is it then, when I need to tag a Moose,Elk,Sambar, on the edge of thick cover, the 9.3x62-250gnNF/bX,makes me feel a bigwhole lot better? I dont want to this to be a seriously over the top pissing on smaller bore post.  cause Rounds like the 7x57 offer much for their size, but your in good jest and sensible thoughts are most welcome!  Technically speaking, If I was hit in the chest at 5-10yds with one of the following: Broadhead, 160Fs, 12guageRifle Slug. I would more than likely have have a better chance at moving off the spot (under my own will) from the broadhead..and least of all from the 12gSlug...yes?  | ||
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Bigger animals, bigger bullets, bigger holes. That's kind of the way I pick a cartridge for given species. I'm sure a 160grBarnes or FS or NP would cleanly take moose. If all I had was my .280 for moose, I would use it, but I would want my .338-06 w/ 250gr bullets.  LIFE IS NOT A SPECTATOR'S SPORT! | |||
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The bore size of the unfired bullet means much less than the expanded size of the bullet.Therefore a smaller diameter bullet will in some cases create a larger wound channel than larger bullets. | |||
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At a loss of penetration, which IS needed more with the increase of a beast.  "They who would give up an essential Liberty for Temporary Security, deserves neither Liberty or Security." ---Benjamin Franklin "SIC SEMPER TYRANNUS" | |||
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In all honesty I see what you mean, but I do feel it comes down to amount of time with a certain round or lack there of. Point being if you took your lighter rig and lighter slugs and went and dusted a few critters with it the confidence would be there and no issues or questions would exist. Mark D | |||
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Depending on both the bullet used and the velocity produced.I will put my 300ultramag using the 180gr tsx up against any 338win mag or 35whelen when comparing wound channels on larger game animals.The tsx opens well and retains much more weight than most other bullets,and when driven at 3380fps,it creates a wide yet very deep wound channel. | |||
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That's a no brainer to me. Kinetic Energy= mass x Velocity(SQUARED).  I still love my .35 Whelen though, and barrel life is much better than a .300 Ultra. BTW, my next rifle will probably be a Sendero II in .300 Ultra, so I ain't knocking it at all!!!"They who would give up an essential Liberty for Temporary Security, deserves neither Liberty or Security." ---Benjamin Franklin "SIC SEMPER TYRANNUS" | |||
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Tradition. Nearly anything from the 6.5 Swede to the 375 H&H will kill, but bigger bullets have been dropping big animals faster for so long that intelligent people have quit fighting over it - except here. Okie John "The 30-06 works. Period." --Finn Aagaard | |||
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Hence the reason I've decided on the .340 Weatherby. Larger bullet, higher speed. A well constructed (read that Barnes) bullet with it's retained weight penetrates very well. It also opens to better then twice it's original size to create a reasonably wide wound channel. Kinda the best of both worlds.  "The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they are ignorant, but that they know so much that isn't so. " - Ronald Reagan | |||
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And if you want to live in the past before the premium bullets or high velocity cartridges were invented,the bigger bullet will provide quicker kills.However,I prefer to live in the present. | |||
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I kinda like the past. Okie John "The 30-06 works. Period." --Finn Aagaard | |||
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It shows. | |||
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I don't think you would go very far with a broadhead in your chest.It would probably go thru and they make a big hole. Dave | |||
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Old age is a high price to pay for maturity!!! Some never pay and some pay and never reap the reward. Wisdom comes with age! Sometimes age comes alone.. | |||
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Woodjack, If I had to take a large animal in thick cover with my 9.3x62, I'd use a 286 Woodleigh soft point. As with your 7mm selection, the 286 has excellent BC, as do many of the other bullets mentioned above, which all lead to penetration. Penetration is good. A bullet that penetrate has greater opportunity to mess things up. If it holds together and gets bigger on its trip, it messes things up worse. The 7mmRemMag pretty much duplicates with 160gr bullets what a 30-06 will do with 180gr bullets. Both are excellent choices because people can manage them and inside reasonable hunting ranges, they are deadly. The 9.3x62 is a 30-06 on steroids. It will do it just a bit better. For a cartridge based on a case in the 30-06 class, the 9.3x62 is really quite fabulous. Most folks can manage it, and it will kill anything you point it at. Kudude | |||
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Gerard I think I remember you posting about the advantage of using a lighter bullet for the 9.3X62. Would you please educate me on the advantages of a lighter faster bullet. I see your friend took a wildabeast with a 22-250 and a 40gr HV. What is the largest game you would recomend for my .223wssm and your 40gr HV @ 4700fps. Thanks Dr B | |||
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Dr B, Difficult question because the answer must be laced with a number of caveats. We know from field experience that the 40gr HV at 4700fps will penetrate between 12" and 39" (see Gina's shot on the blesbuck.) , depending on the impact speed and what it encounters on the path through the animal. The closer the shot, the less the penetration. So I must say that, if you shoot with surgical precision and possess the self control to back away from a shot that cannot work, any game animal that will require a minimum of 12" of penetration to get to a vital element, can be taken. Apart from the black wildebeest on our Gallery, we know of one man who has taken 17 gemsbuck with the bullet at 4200fps from his 22-250. Against conventional wisdom, he does not take shots close in and usually takes his shots between 200m and 400m where penetration is better than 12" and closer to 39". For general hunting where the shot cannot always be chosen carefully or circumstances dictate that shots will be less than perfectly placed, I would limit myself to animals of less than 200lbs live weight. Less than perfectly placed would be a broadside marginal lung shot or a raking going away shot into the chest cavity that does not exit, it does not mean a badly placed gut shot or jaw shot. This is what I do with the 22x64 on our cull hunts and I have no trouble with shot and escaped animals. The blesbuck below was taken at 420m with a 220 Swift and resulted in an instant knockdown.   | |||
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I think you'll see them run farther with a shotgun slug than a 7x57 with a 160 NP or North Fork. They use nothing but shotguns across the line in Iowa and they are not particularly a sudden killer on whitetails, which are normally flattened by a .220 Swift, much as Gerard describes. Thinks in terms of a muzzle loader versus a center fire, the slug gun is much like a black powder rifle in bore size and velocity. It is certainly a killer, but so is pretty much anything else on whitetails. A shot not taken is always a miss | |||
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A Toyota pickup and a Peterbuilt both hit a building. Which one will do more damage? | |||
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Toyota pickup at seventy miles per hour will do much more damage than a Peterbuilt at 10mph. It will probably go deeper into the building as well due to less frontal area. | |||
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The above statement was the original question or under tone. It seems pretty sound to me. We shoot similar size animals, such as Eland, with the 9,3 x 62 and is indeed a well-picked tool for the job, especially when we consider bushveld ranges as hinted above. Adequate penetration (in relation to the target) is always an issue and is a function of the bullets expanded diameter as driven by the force (Mo/Xsa)and that must be related to the depth of an animals heart that must be reached, be it a perfect broad-side shot, frontal shot angled shot or a maverick type shot to go through the intestines from the back. What matters to me most is that the bullet must go through the heart when its petals are at its widest and be intact to severe the biggest hole for the quickest drop. This is naturally more important with bigger an tougher game than frail game like Springbuck, etc. A 250 gr Barnes-X bullet in a 9.3 is devastating medicine, even for buffalo, and will provide deeper penetration than a 286 gr soft expanding bullet that expands more - simply the relationship of force applied over frontal area. However, the 286 gr Rhino bullet expands to 21 mm and provides an awesome killing effect on big game at modest velocity of 2,250 to 2,300 fps. No need to milk extra velocity at the price of increased chamber pressure. Chris | |||
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