quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
Allen ,
Don't you think the term "inherent accuract" has been beat to death...I suggest that a good barrel, proper bedding et. has more to do with hunting accuracy than anything else...Lets keep "inherent accuracy" to the benchrest gang, there again I think its somewhat abused...

AMEN Ray.....this term is purely baloney....it implies there's something about it that's accurate because of if design and not relevant to the way it's constructed.

The 7x57 is perfect for an intermediate 98 action, like the FN 24, but gets lost in the standard length 98.

The 7x64 is perfect for all standard mausers and modern long actions.

The 7mm-08 is an insult to both Mauser and Brenneke.

And you can get away with calling a 7x57 a .275 Rigby (like I did), thats got to be worth something.

7x57 is of the "Royal "class,
7mm08 is a dumpy hedgehog like little harlet with a head to big for its body,that keeps working the LasVegas scene trying to get its bigbreak,it aint gunna happen,a blow-in with too little too late,nor is it ever going to shake the original truely Gracious,balanced and poised Lady of the African Plain, for,She is established on rock! the other on shifting sands.
Nor is anything ever going to worry the African Queen ,375 Holland&Holland.

Schromf said, "I was hoping this thread came around, good lets talk 7mm's. First right up front let me set the record straight these are both fine rounds. The 7x57 is my favorite cartidge out of the whole cartridge kingdom it is a truelly great round. The 7mm-08 sits about one step down on the ladder from that. In my opinion it is a testament to the Winchester marketing department that the 30-30 ever got to be America's favorite deer cartridge, when the 7x57 was available. Lets see flat shooting, moderate recoil, and just dynamite on deer, how the 30-30 even got in the game is one of universes mysteries. Ditto on the 7mm-08 this is the esssence of a deer cartridge."

Probably the biggest reason the 30-30 came out ahead was the average American was in love with the lever action rifle and the neat little Model 94 carbine sat well in a scabbard on the horse. That's probably still one of the reasons the cartridge is still around. It does do what it was designed to do.
Bolt actions didn't even start to begin to be popular here until after WW-1 when returning soldiers with experience using bolt actions started to want them. From then on, they became the more popular style of action, yet the lever gun still hangs on quite well.
Paul B.

quote:

The 7x57 is my favorite cartidge out of the whole cartridge kingdom it is a truelly great round. The 7mm-08 sits about one step down on the ladder from that.

Here is a toast to you ...

Don't need any more power for medium sized game and you can shoot it all day long.

One convinced man is already a majority

Chris Bekker

quote:

This befudled me. How can the 08 go faster with less powder? A little more reading and I found my answer. Four more inches of barrel. Nosler used a 22" barrel with the 7x57 and a 26 incher with the 08. So if you add what 100 fps per inch? You end up with 3292 fps vs. 2922 fps.

No doubt barrel length had something to do with it, but basically, the difference between a 7X57mm and a 7mm/08 is the same as the differene between a 6mm Remington and the .243 Winchester - hardly any! Since it has more case capacity, the 7X57mm will outperform the 7mm/08 IF BOTH ARE LOADED TO THE ABSOLUTE MAXIMUM in strong action rifles having the same barrel length!

Factory 7X57mm ammo will always be underloaded due to all the old rickey pre-'98 Mausers and Remington rolling blocks out there chambered for it.....

IF I owned a nice 7mm/08, I would not sell it and run out to buy a 7X57mm. But I own 7X57's, and have no plans to replace them with 7mm/08's either......

I've had both rounds. Currently my deer rifle is a 7X57 and my buddy's deer rifle is my old 7mm-08. They both excell at taking whitetails. The 7-08 does have 2 advantages; at least here in western Pa., 7-08 factory rounds are more available, and it is available in short rifles, such as the rem model 7, which make wonderful woods guns that can still reach out across a field or down a pipeline.
notwithstanding the above, I prefer the 7X57 if only for the joy of hunting with a classic carterage.

TerryR

Actually, as I understand it, the 7-08 wasn't dreamed up as a niche filler by the gun makers but rather worked its way into wide spread usage thru word of mouth. The availability of cheap .308 brass and superior performance and lower recoil of the 7mm bullets attracted the attention of the steel shooters. The next step was to discover it made one dandy deer rifle. My first 7-08 was made up while it was still a wildcat.

My newest rifle is a 7mm-08. I am having a great time learning what it likes. The little devil has gobbled up quite a few accubonds and ballistic silvertips already. Anyway, someone asked about the niche it was designed to fill. If I remember correctly, it was the handgun silhoutte guys that really got the 7mm-08 rolling. Then Remington jumped on it before some other company could stamp it. Seems like that was the story I read.

Its a my horse is bigger than your horse argument a pissing contest. Both cartridges will kill the same animals jus as fast as the other.

Of course both rounds will kill the same game and so will the .257, 270, 280, 30-06, 264, 25-07, 7 mag and a host of others, that wasn't the question...there is not a lick of difference in killing power between the 257 Roberts and the 300 Win with a proper shot...the end results are the same.

The 7x57 has the biggest case, the big dog sleeps on the poarch! so its better balistically than a 7-08..

The 7-08, like Brad said is made for a short action, another croc IMO, that 1/4 inch or so of bolt travel only effects those that cannot chew gum and walk at the same time! simple opine Atkinson logic, towit many do not agree! ...

Both are fine cartridges...Pick the one that suits you.

Ray,

I couldn't agree more about the short vrs long throw BS. I have spent the afternoon and evening getting ready for hunting this weekend, and doing a last minute once through on the rifles. They all ready to go to my satisfaction now. But doing the yearly servicing gave me a chance to sit down with all the rifles, my G33/40 feeds the best, my short throw rifles don't hold a candle. My next best feeder is my 09 Argentine. The two on the bottom of the list are the CZ550 in 6.5x55 and Remington 308.

I doubt the Rem 308 will be around next year, its a backup only this year, in case one of my boys breaks something.

Long action, short action, whatever.
Anyone ever notice that a long action Remington 700 action in 30-06 will actually hold a .375 H&H loaded round with room to spare? Has anyone noticed that the bolt throw is long enough for that same .375 H&H cartride? No magazine block to accomodate a shorter round. No special bolt stop to limit the distance the bolt has to move.
Probably wasn't the place to post this, but I just couldn't help myself.
Paul B.

I am currently having a custom 7-08 built. I wanted a short action, mountain rifle. I could not decide between the 7x57, 7-08 or 284. That was until I went to the store and found no store carried 7x57 or 284 ammo. I handload, but from a practical standpoint, it made more sense to me just in case I did go on a hunting trip and lost my ammo etc.

Basically, they all perform pretty much the same, but the 7-08 doesn't have the coolness factor as the others.

Must be a Colorado thing...Idaho has plenty of 7x57 ammo in the stores..and brass is a dime a dozen around here...

G33/40 actions are horded like gold bullion, we cheat, steal and kill for them...

Ray
The advantage of the short action is not, IMHO, in the shortness of the action, it is in the fact that many short actions are in short rifles. In Idaho there may not be much advantage in a short rifle, but here in Pennsylvania and the rest of the East where we hunt in forests, a short rifle can make it much easier to get a shot off. That is why you still see so many Marlins on the first monday after Thanksgiving. A 7-08 in a short rifle gives you a rifle as handy as a lever action 30-30 yet still has the ability to reach out across the cornfield.
I suppose that one could just as easily make a carbine out of a standard action, but from the factory it seems that if you want a short rifle you have to take a short cartrige.
Personally I still like the 7X57 but when my buddy wanted a deer rifle I suggested a 7-08 for two reasons. The primary one being that I know that he will always buy factory ammo. In western Pa. all the stores have 7-08 many don't stock 7 mauser ( the only way I've seen it listed here). The second reason was that there are a fair number of used 7-08's, including mine, which could be had at a very good price. 7X57's are pretty rare.

TerryR

TerryR - you could be right but I hunt in Georgia where the woods are just about as thick as I have ever seen, yet I haven't seen a major advantage to a rifle that is a few inches shorter. There are plenty of Marlins in the woods down here but there are plenty of bolt action rifles in various short action, long action, and magnum chamberings as well.

Still - I would say the most popular chamberings I've seen over the years are the .270 Winchester, 7mm Remington Magnum, .30-30, .308, and .30-06.

I hunt in the wide open Rockies of Colorado and still find a short rifle handier. I lugged around my long action, long barrled 338 for 5 days and thought it sucked. I much would have prefered to be packing my short barreled, short action 243, but it doesn't have the horse power for elk. But a 7-08 does.

Ray, funny part is both stores I went to had 303 British, but no 7x57 or 284!

Buzz
Most people here also hunt with standard length rifles, as I do. There is a perception, however, that a shorter rifle is faster in a snap shot situation, especially in heavy cover.

TerryR

If you own one or the other it doesn't make sense to sell it to rush out and buy the other, but if you own neither now
then the 7mm-08 has a slight edge...

Not from a ballistic sense, the two are effectively identical.
The "extra powder capacity" arguement ignores that
each cartridge will be probably be "happy" with a different propellant.

Look at the selection of rifles available in 7x57
as compared to those available in 7mm-08.
Factory 7mm08 ammo is a MUCH broader selection even ignoring the higher pressures it's loaded to.

as for the 6mm Rem? if you install a 6mmRem barrel onto a long action it's a better cartridge than the 243Win, though not by a lot, in a short action? Buy a 243Win.

70gr Noslers loaded to 0.010" short of the rifling in my Rem700 Varminter would not fit into the magazine...

I just gotta ask, what idiot at Remington decided to chamber a 57mm long cartridge in a 308 length action?

I traded that rifle away even though it was a superbly accurate rifle because I didn't want a single shot.
I found NOTHING that would shoot the way I liked that would fit into the magazine!

AllanD

quote:

Originally posted by Jay Gorski:

quote:

Originally posted by ElCaballero:
Somewhere on here someone made the statement that the 7-08 is ballistically superior to the 7x57. Now the only way one could out perform the other IMO is speed. So I did a little research according to the Nosler Reloading Manual fith edition the 7x 57 tosses a 140 gr bullet at 2892 fps using 51.5 gr of RL19. The 7mm-08 tosses the same bullet at 2922 fps using 49 gr of RL19. Both were max loads.

This befudled me. How can the 08 go faster with less powder? A little more reading and I found my answer. Four more inches of barrel. Nosler used a 22" barrel with the 7x57 and a 26 incher with the 08. So if you add what 100 fps per inch? You end up with 3292 fps vs. 2922 fps.

I know that there are people on here that know reloading and ballistics much better than I. What are your thoughts?

Ah, It's more like 20fps per inch.

That is more like it. I get 2831 fps in my 20" 7m08 with 140 TSX and it is not hot yet. Haven't tried to push it since it is fast enough and very accurate. best is .230
If I could get 100 per inch I would be screaming with a longer barrel.
I could not say which is better but with the performance that I get and never losing a deer with the 7mm08 I will just stick with it.