can anyone please provide me with some info on this caliber?? pros , cons.

I'm no expert but..... The AI version has roughly EIGHT % addition case capacity over the standard .280 Rem case. That works out to about 80-120 fps additional velocity, give or take a bit.
Many claim that the AI case with its sharper shoulder has a positive effect on accuracy. Who knows? I took an already accurate .280 and had it redone to an AI and so far, I can see no difference in accuracy.

I did mine as an experiment, and have only done a little bit of load work. If all one gets is an additional 100 fps,which is what I'm getting, no deer or elk will know the difference.

Maybe it is an inherently more accurate case design? So my normal .6" groups will shrink to .55"? Nosler has some data. There have also been several articles written in Handloader and Rifle magazine.

FN in MT

Shooter:

I presently own one. It is my third. All were built on HVA small ring commercial mauser actions. I like a 22 inch barrel. I have heard it argued [with considerable merit, I concede] that such a short tube defeats the purpose of improving this particular cartridge.

I used to have a slew of loading data from my own bench testing, but inadvertently threw it away. I've not begun to do load development yet on my current rifle.

Kenny Jarrett has written extensively on the .280 Ackley and describes it as capable of reaching "the doorstep" of 7mm Rem Mag performance. I think it is particularly well suited to 150 grain bullets. As I recall, Reloader 22 and VihtaVouri N560 powders are excellent choices at that bullet weight.

As I have stepped back and considered the cartridge, I have a difficult time choosing the .280 Ackley over say a .270 Winchester unless one wants a deer/elk combination gun and likes to reload. In that scenario, the .280 Ackley is more versatile than the .270 Win.

If you are a "one-gun" shooter and mostly deer, I would go with the .270 Win. The standard .280, IMHO, holds no measurable advantage over the .270. The .280 Improved is superior and worthwhile simply because you can get a significant performance improvement over the standard .280, getting very close to the 7mm Rem mag., but with less powder and without the belted case head.

Jordan

thanks for the info guys.

happy holidays.

Improved cartridges are a complete waste of time and money. I have three of them and cannot think of what to say but fool me once, fool me twice is on the tip of my tounge.......... but I can't finish it.

Now if something is wrong with the existing chamber and you really like the rifle otherwise then it's possible to say correct the headspace by rechambering.

I have a 30/06 that I had done to the fire formed version. It's just a pain now. On top of that I did not have the caliber stamped on the barrel. I don't know if I could even sell it now and get more than what the action and stock are worth.

The .280 Ackley is a fine cartridge. I've shot probably a couple of hundred of them over the past 21 yrs. and the very first custom rifle we built at Jarrett's when I worked there was a .280 Ackley. I just started building myself one not long ago. However, despite what Kenny writes, it is not the equal to a 7mm Rem Mag. It very evenly splits the difference between a 280 Rem and a 7mm Rem Mag. If you want to squeeze the most out of a 7mm bore on a standard bolt faced action, then the .280 Ackley is the way to go. If you want 7mm Rem mag performance, go with the 7mm Rem Mag.

Shooter65,
I have been shooting a 280ack imp for over ten years and I am very satisfied with it. I took a brand new unfire 280SS BDL to Dave Tooley and told him what I wanted. The finished product still does all that I require of it and more. It is extremely accurate with bullets from 120 Barnes X to 160 Nosler partitions and while I am not going quite as fast as a 7 mag the versatility of this round is tremendous. I have two friends who have also had 280ack's built and they are very happy with theirs also. It is the best all round rifle I have and I have the ultimate confidence in it's ability to perform the task's I give it whether it be from a tree stand at under a 100 yards or in a cut over at 400 yards. It has never let me down and I have not had anything to go farther than 25 - 30- yards after being hit, most never move from their tracks. DRBOB

So far, my only experience with Ackley Improved cartridges is with the 8mm-06 variant.

IMO: The velocity advantage is only part of the equation. In addition to the somewhat modest velocity gain and (perhaps) some increase in inherent accuracy due to the 40 degree shoulder, the increase in brass life is signifigant.

I have never had a case show any signs of case head seperation. Case failure was always due to split necks or loose primer pockets after 12-14 reloads @ somewhere near 60,000psi chamber pressure. Either of these failures could be remedied. Case neck anealing every 5 loads and a primer pocket swager from Hart would further extend case life. Case stretching seems to be virtualy eliminated, at least reduced to a minimum.

I am currently considering have my .280 M700 Mountain rifle rechambered to Ackley Improved. I haven't decided if that would be worth it. (rechambering a factory barrel on a functioning rifle) However, if one was doing a rebarrel job, or had reason to pull an existing barrel anyway, then having the chamber cut to Ackley Improved would make perfect sense to me.

[ 12-25-2002, 02:49: Message edited by: wildcat junkie ]

About 14 years ago I had a 280 AI 40 degree shoulder built on a Rem 700 action with 26" Hart bbl and HS stock. This rifle shot 66.0 grains of R-22 only with Norma brass and loaded with a drop tube but chronographed 3133 with a 160 grain Nosler Partition, Speed SPFB, or Barnes X. It would clover leaf three shots from each and the collective three shot groups would shoot within 1 1/4" at 100yds. When my supply of Norma brass ran out nothing else came close. I literally loved that rifle (in a guy sort of way, ya know)and had all the CONFIDENCE in the world in it. Nothing walked away once I decided to kill it and I do not recall having to shoot anything more than once. YES, I am very high on the 280 Ackley. I still shoot a 6MM Ackley (actually the reamer is noted as 244 Remington Ackley Improved to 40 degree shoulder). So you don't have to ask yes, I am just as enamored with that cartridge as the 280. It is sad the bigger gun manufacturers don't wake up to more of the Ackley cartridges. How long did it take them to finally admit the 338-06 and 35 Whelan justify being standardized, finally. I like magnums for certain jobs but most hunting "jobs-so to speak" don't need one. Good Hunting, "Z"

The 280 AI would be a waist of my time. Anymore I try to stay away from "AI(s)" or cases that require extensive modification or fire forming, unless it is worth it/ highly specialized. The 280 alone is a fantastic cartridge.

Mine is built on a Remington 700 LA, so I can seat bullets out as far as possible. Hart 28 1/2" barrel, ya don't carry it very far, basically to the sand bags. Fajen Laminated stock. I shoot 87grain Hornady V-Max bullets on top of 50.0 grains of R-19 WW cases and Federal Bench Rest Primer.

For the life of me I can't get two shots to even cut one another at 100 yards but I can keep 5 inside 1" @ 200yards I'm down to 5/8" to 3/4" and on. Obviously I'm getting some yaw (big time) but last spring I made a head shot @ 398 yards-laser measured.

Basically, this is one super long range rig. Oh, yea, I have a Leupold 8.5 X 25 (I think that's the top end, I usually shoot it @ 20X due to heat mirage.

I would highly recommend the cartridge. Originally I looked @ the 25/284 and liked it however, what I like most about the 6mm Ackley is you only have to fire form the original 6mm and I then outside turn the necks and I'm good to go for up to 3 more loadings, usually two before I turn the necks again.

I'm a big Remington action fan and I feel a good squared up action/barrel and a high quality barrel make the gun what it is. Sure the scope and neck turning and good accurate bullet, but to me all that is essential anyhow. I really think accuracy is relative to how much time you want to invest in your reloads. I take alot of pride in mine cuz I enjoy the feeling of pride after having gone through the process and make long shots look routine. However, I do not clean primer pockets etc. for what I'm doing I don't need to. Good Luck and Good Hunting, "Z"

Actually it was at the top of the chart, so to speak, yet I could get 5-6 reloads after the initial fire forming and I didn't think that was bad at all as that was 6-7 actual firings. Yes the Norma brass is very uniform and had a larger volume. The primers had a flat face yet the curved contour of the edges of the primers was still the original rounded primer contour. I've seen 270 Winchester brass do the same thing on fewer loadings, i.e. case head seperation, at the time I was also full length sizing each time.

Don't know if this is a confession, but I do prescribe to the theory that if you own a race horse you don't hook a plow to it. However, anytime I get close to the top of the load chart or exceed a conservative manual I am very cautious.

With that said, yes I did sell the rifle a couple years later as no other type of brass allowed me to even get to 3000fps. I even tried Lake City "06 brass and no deal.

Now that the brass is available I just may layaway a nest full and have another 280AI made. This time on a Rem 700 LA (still) with a Hart bbl, and Fajen laminated stock.

Zed,
I'm curious, and would appreciate you input. I work with 280 and 223 ackley improved and love these rounds except for the over pressure signs being harder to read. I use Norma 280 in a Pac-Nor barrel chambered by Pac-Nor and can't get anywhere near your speeds. I'm on the seventh loading of the first 100 cases and seeing no signs of thinning now. What were the pressure signs that told you you coundn't load the other brands up to Norma levels?
Take care

I currently own 4 Ackley case's 17 Hornet, 22-250AI,7-08AI, 280AI, I love them all. The 280AI is a great cartridge and is just right for long range deer hunting. I like using 140 to 150grn bullets. I really like the 150grn scirroco. But I had John Lewis build me a 7-08AI on a sako action 20 inch barrel. I get 2970fps out of this little screamer with 140 BTs. That is about what you get out of a stock 280 with 4 inches less barrel. I wonder what I would get out of a 24 inch pipe? Needless to say since getting this rifle I only use the 280AI for long range deer/Elk hunting. This gun (7-08AI) shoots in the .300s every time I go to the range. All this in a short compact rifle. I like the Ackley�s and some really increase your velocity even with short barrels

Savage 99, I couldn't agree more... I see the AI's as a complete wate of time.

It has always amused me how most AI user's also have 24-26" tubes on their rifle's... that certainly "enhances" the AI's velocity .

My own 280 Rem had a 22" bbl. With RL 22 and 139 gr Hornady's I got right at 3,250 fps. My rifle perhaps had a "fast" barrel, but our local smith (of national repute... wink, nod) get's 3,300 fps with his 22" bbl'd 280 and RL22/140's. I "backed off" to 3,150 despite having no pressure indications as 3,250 "spooked" me a bit.

I remember one of Finn Aagaard's articles describing his use of one of Jarrett's 280 AI's... he was definately NOT impressed with Jarrett's velocity claims. I guess old Finn was just too practical.

BA

[ 01-02-2003, 09:56: Message edited by: Brad ]

Easyup, Sometime ago I read an article by Ross Seyfreid, who I think, knows more about guns and reloading than anyone walking today. Sometimes you may not like how he says things but after visiting with the guy on the phone for 2-3 hours,several different times, I believe what he says.

Thus, he indicated that the best was to measure pressure is to measure the web of the case just up from the base. After a couple reloads you will see a ring start to develope some of that is from a full length die (providing you are using a full length die) this is the same area you want to measure and not let the expansion exceed .005". I have read some say (Not Ross) .005"-.008" but I think that is to much.

Let me tell you guys I really hesitated to write that note as the load uas what we called the 7MM Mag. data 66.0 grains of R-22. I thought I was nuts but it worked. It filled the case up into the neck WITH a drop tube and was a compressed load! (DUH) The chamber had been long throated and the bullets were seated with a Fremont in-line bullet seater to about the middle of the neck. Like I have said before I believe in the saying you don't hook a race horse to a plow and admittedly I pushed this horse to the limit. But I was still on safe ground, I feel, as I was getting the 5-6 reloads out of the brass.

This was possibly due to two things, in my mind, the great quality thinner brass and an awesome HART SS barrel that was smooth and uniform, if you are using a Pac-Nor you are good to go (can't remember if that was you or someone else-anyhow, Ross said I had hit the "sweet spot" with the whole deal i.e. every component was compatible with each of the others and the gun. Even beyond that I think P.O. Ackley, who I respect and only wish I could have met and talked to, hit on something we still do not fully understand and appreciate. That was those cartridges with the straight walled case, long neck and the 40 degree shoulder. My experience with Ackley Improved cartridges tells me there is something about the general shape of these cartridges that burns powder uniformly and consistently. I will also say I believe that slightly compressed powder loads shoot more uniformly and thus more accurately and possibly slightly faster.

Essentially, that is the deal you can believe it or not but I'm tellin' ya the real deal. When I told Ross about it and asked if he thought I was crazy he laughed and said yea, but not cuz of this!

Get some Norma brass,fire form it, outside trim the necks for length and uniformity, clean the inside of the flash holes once, if needed and get your R-22 drop back 10% from the 66.0 load and start one half a grain at a time and use a long drop tube for the powder. I'll also tell you this was the most uniform load I have ever had with standard deviation and extreme spread being in the 5 and 8 fps area time after time. Also I don't know what the deal was with the 3133 velocity but if I was it once, which I did, I saw it 25 times, from two chronographs. Well there it is I have exposed my soul. Can't completely explain it but now you know why grown men cry, once in a while. Back then I would have traded my pickup for 100 rounds or that Norma Brass!

Good Luck, Good Hunting, "Z"

Easyup, I reread your post and one thing that may be a huge difference is my chamber was long throated,which I mentioned,and which I like to do with Ackley cartridges. Two reasons I like to use med to slow burning powder-depending on cartridge and caliber-and obviously I like seating the bullet out as far as I can. I also use an inline bullet seater and seat it just off the lands an 1/8" to maybe 1/32" I know that is a big defference but see what your rifle likes.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not talking Weatherby free bore where you can stick your foot in there but I think long throating is important with Ackley cartridges. Give the bullet a little head start while the charcoal is warming up and I believe it helps (only HELPS) keep pressures in line.

Hey I've flattened my share of primers and even lost a couple if ya know what I mean. Proving the modern Mauser and 700 action are mirraculously strong and there is a God, cuz I'm still sitting here. But that was Elmer Keiths fault for writing about duplex and triplex loads. This 280 AI and that stuff aren't even in the same world. But it does really interest me!

Good Luck and Good Hunting, "Z"