I am contemplating a 300 WSM in Browning X-Bolt Stainless Stalker.
How versatile is this cartridge, with particular reference to 180 gr bullets? Much is said about the fact that it does not handle heavier bullets well.
I will shoot mainly 165 gr monolithics, but will need to shoot 180 gr bullets at reasonable velocities too.
For use in open terrain for a wide range of species by me and clients.
Please tell me what 180 gr bullet you shoot and at what velocity.
Bear in mind that this rifle has a 23" barrel and our South African powders are a bit slower than those in the US.
Thanks

I guess I would want to ask why you feel like you will "have to" shoot 180s. Years ago I was preparing for my first elk trip and I asked my buddy in Idaho whether to load 150s or 180s in my '06. He told me to load the 165s; said they were as flat as a 150 and hit as hard as a 180, practically speaking.

I have very little experience with a 300 WSM, but I did load seven boxes of 165 Speer GS for a buddy with a Tikka. I used one grain less than the max load of Ramshot Hunter, and seated the bullets to the cannelure. Remakably enough, the load shot .5 MOA...

Good luck with whatever you choose to do!

Do you have any experance with a 30-06 or a 300 win mag? It sits in between them. Quite frankly I'd rather have a 30-06 or a 300 win mag if it's going to be one of my main rifles.

If I recollect correctly the 300 WSM performance is slotted between the 30-06 AI and the 30-338 WinMag. In your Browning SA the use of 180gr bullets will place the performance closer to the 30-06 AI due to their deeper seating to function from the magazine.

Thanks for the replies so far.
I already use a .270 and 338 WM. The 338 is a big, bulky (with suppressor) Sako 75 that I don't enjoy carrying all day.
I find the 270 140 gr NAB just too light for difficult shots on big animals like kudu and gemsbok. Often my client has the 270 and I would like a stronger back-up option.
The reason I say that I want to be able to shoot 180's is that I believe not using them in a 300 mag of whatever sort is a missed opportunity, especially for a dedicated hunt on bigger animals like zebra, gemsbok, etc.
I stand corrected on this, hence asking for experience with both 165 and 180's.
This particular rifle (X-Bolt) is relatively lightweight and should be a pleasure to carry. The recoil will be removed by the suppressor and it will be used for everything from steenbuck/ springbok upwards.
Please keep the replies coming.

IMHO, The short actions limit OAL of the loaded cartridge too much, severly limiting bullet selection. There is a reason that the 30/06 and the 300 Win. mag are so popular.

.300 Win or 30-06 with a premium Swift, Partition, North Fork.

Better ammunition availability. For client use, the '06 offers more manageable recoil and gives up very little to the magnums if anything inside 250 yards. As you know, increased velocity can impede penetration (<<a vote for the '06). With both of the above, sometimes, noticeably better feeding than the WSM. Consider a 200 gr on larger animals.

Just my .02,......

Golly !! I never knew a 30-06 needed a premium bullet 150 GRAIN AND UP. Learn some thing new every once in a while. roger

I love my .300 WSM and find it very versatile. I've shot everything from small pronghorn to gemsbok with 150 grain TTSXs and haven't recovered a bullet yet. Quick clean kills are the order of the day.

I shoot a 180 Failsafe (obsolete but I have a few hundred) in mine at 3057 fps with rl-17 powder. I think it works just fine but it's not the only cartridge that will work well.

I am kind of a WSM fan in all calibers.

Zeke

Thanks for the responses.
To put my issue into more perspective, I do own a 30-06 that can be used for clients too and the 300 WSM will be primarily for my own use.
I really like the slim lines of the X-Bolt Stainless Stalker and do not care for the idea of a heavy 300 WM, especially for carrying all day after smaller antelope or pigs. I have a 338 WM when needed.
I will use 165 gr bullets primarily but there are occasions when a heavier bullet will be better for bigger animals.
Thanks Zeke and DesertRam for your input too.
Keep them coming!

You don't save a great deal of weight on the short action so I'm not sure why a 300 Win Mag would necessarily be heavy. Try one in a Tikka T3 Hunter for example if you want to save weight. I'm not sure the T3 Lite comes in 300 Win but it does in WSM.

Your Sako without the silencer and with a light scope is probably not that heavy either, but too each their own I guess.

Our propellants are close to IMR4350 (S365 when properly specced and not too fast as some lots were) and IMR4831 (S385 is slightly slower probably in my experience comparing my results in my rifles to the US manuals). We desperately need a slower propellant like a 7828.

The WSM will probably work fine but no reason not to get a Win Mag or to use the 338 Win Mag... an even better choice for backing up. I like a 200gr in the 300 Win Mag and I don't think those heavies are the forte of the WSM, but I don't have one so will leave an opinion on that to those who own one.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by AFRICAN LEADWOOD:
You don't save a great deal of weight on the short action so I'm not sure why a 300 Win Mag would necessarily be heavy. Try one in a Tikka T3 Hunter for example if you want to save weight. I'm not sure the T3 Lite comes in 300 Win but it does in WSM.

Your Sako without the silencer and with a light scope is probably not that heavy either, but too each their own I guess."

Thanks for the tips re powders. Have a look at the specs of the X-bolt. See http://www.browning.com/produc...ainless-stalker.html
Definitely lighter and slimmer. If I can only shoot 165's, then that is not the end of the world.
To me the irony is that the 300 WSM is faster than the 30-06 yet appears less versatile. Not sure if this is true, hence the original question.
I am still curious about real experiences and velocities with the 180 gr bullets.

quote:

Originally posted by bartsche:
Golly !! I never knew a 30-06 needed a premium bullet 150 GRAIN AND UP. Learn some thing new every once in a while. roger

Sometimes need. Sometimes don't. Hope that helps. :-)

I have owned two customized Winchester Model 70 .300 WSMs since 2001. My main bullet of choice has been the Federal 180 grain Trophy Bonded (Bearclaw). I've literally killed scores of game with those two guns and that particular bullet. In Africa I've taken everything from eland and giraffe on down to the smallest duikers, as well as Desert Mule Deer and Coues Deer in Mexico. I've also taken Mule and Whitetail deer, antelope, and other game in the Western and Midwestern U.S.

I've been shooting a Kimber 300 WSM since they came out several years ago. I started loading the 200 grain Nosler Accubond because I couldn't find any 180's at the time. The load was so accurate it wasn't until this year that I even tried any 180's, which are also extremely accurate.

My 200's were right at 2800fps using IMR4350. I'm sure I could have gotten higher velocities with a different powder but I didn't see much point in it.

quote:

Have a look at the specs of the X-bolt. See http://www.browning.com/produc...ainless-stalker.html
Definitely lighter and slimmer.

KAROO - the point I'm getting at is that this is rifle dependent, not calibre dependent. It is not a 300WSM vs a "heavy" 300 Win Mag decision as you put it. The weight difference between the X-bolt in WSM vs Win Mag is 5 oz (about 140 grams). On that basis I would choose a 300 Win Mag every time. The Tikka T3 for example has only one action length for the different calibres.

Certainly a T3 or an X-Bolt is lighter than the Sako 75, but it is my feeling that a 8 1/2 lb rifle is not "that" heavy or cumbersome. As I said, to each their own and 2 lbs is a significant difference. I agree that hiking around the mountains of the Eastern Cape weight is an issue.

But that was a bit of a drift. My real point is that you save little going to a 300WSM vs a 300 Win Mag and I think you give up a great deal.

Ive owned and loaded for both;hated a lot with the 300 Win Mag. I know they are close.

But if I intend any use of the heavier 30 caliber bullets i would definitely use the 300 Win mag in a M70 action. I might even set the mag box up for H&H length so I could seat the 200 gr Nolser further out. I did this for years with a H&H pre 64 action.It worked great.

Do you plan to use factory loads? The reason I ask is because my experience, and that of others that I know, is that the .300 WSM is loaded to very high pressures in order to match its velocity claims. Shooting factory ammunition very often results in difficult bolt lift from excessive pressures. This problem would be exacerbated when shooting in a warm climate.

I certainly understand your desire for a light rifle for carrying, which still has sufficient power for the game you anticipate. But the problems which come with the short magnum series (high pressures, difficult feeding due to the cartridge shape, reduced magazine capacity due to the cartridge diameter, and scarcity and cost of ammunition) make the WSM a dubious choice. Check out the size and weight of an A-bolt .30-06 next to the same in WSM. If the ergonomics of the '06 suit you it might be a better choice.

Stonecreek: I understand your concerns as expressed, but from real world experience since 2001 in using the 300 WSM across the world and in warm climates like Africa and Mexico, as well as the Western U.S., I have to respectfully disagree with you. I have never experienced any of the issues that you outlined. I also have a close hunting friend that has used the 300 WSM as well as the 270 WSM in those areas of the world, along with Alaska, and he too, has never experienced any of the issues that you outline. I also shoot a 325 WSM, a 25WSSM, and a 223WSSM and have never had a problem with those calibers either. My hunting buddy also reloads, but I don't. Not saying that they might exist, but maybe we're lucky?
Do you own or shoot any of the WSMs?

quote:

Originally posted by Use Enough Gun:
Stonecreek: I understand your concerns as expressed, but from real world experience since 2001 in using the 300 WSM across the world and in warm climates like Africa and Mexico, as well as the Western U.S., I have to respectfully disagree with you. I have never experienced any of the issues that you outlined. I also have a close hunting friend that has used the 300 WSM as well as the 270 WSM as well, in those areas of the world, along with Alaska, and he too, has never experienced any of the issues that you outline. I also shoot a 328 WSM, a 25WSSM, and a 223WSSM and have never had a problem with those calibers either. My hunting buddy also reloads, but I don't. Not saying that they might exist, but maybe we're lucky?
Do you own or shoot any of the WSMs?

I too have never experience any issues in Africa or North America. I load and shoot 6mm WSM, 6.5 WSM, 270 WSM, 7mm WSM, 300 WSM and 325 WSM. Like I said, I'm kind of a WSM fan! Nary an issue and some are real "long rangers" and get shot all summer long.
Zeke

Sorry about my typing skills. I meant the 325 WSM. (Not 328). I love the 325 WSM as well. Using it in Namibia a year ago August, it literally knocked three gemsbok right off of their feet using the 180 Trophy Bondeds. I also shot a Hartmann's Mountain Zebra with it as well as a Damaraland Dik Dik with a Barnes Banded Solid out of the same rifle.

I shot my 300 WSM in Namibia using the 180 grain Partition and 65 grains of IMR4831 for 2960fps. It worked well on springbok and warthog.

Point taken, Leadwood.
I do still have a 338 for a dedicated hunt for bigger game, but really want an improvement on my 270 in killing power, without giving up the lightweight and easy handling.
All my personal hunting rifles wear suppressors, by choice.
It is heartening to see the success noted here with 180 and even 200 gr bullets, but I will be well served by a 165 gr monolithic, I am sure.

quote:

Originally posted by Use Enough Gun:
Sorry about my typing skills. I meant the 325 WSM! (Not 328). Man, I love the 325 WSM as well! Using it in Namibia a year ago August, it literally knocked three gemsbok right off of their feet using the 180 Trophy Bondeds. I also shot a Hartmann's Mountain Zebra with it as well as a Damaraland Dik Dik with Barnes Banded Solids out of the same rifle.

We knew what you were saying! 328 would be odd but so is the 325 since that's just a name and doesn't denote the bullet diameter. Haha I guess some NA hunters weren't ready for an 8mm WSM.
I used the 325 in Africa when I wasn't using my bow. It worked to perfection with Barnes 200 gr TSX pills. My daughters used 300 WSM and 7mm WSM and my son was the odd ball and used a 7mm Rem mag. All loaded with TSX Barnes.

quote:

Do you own or shoot any of the WSMs?

No, not any more, and due to the issues outlined.

People's experiences vary, but even if you don't experience pressure problems there are a couple of things which are unavoidable with the WSM series. One is that you sacrifice at least one round of capacity (maybe two as compared to an '06) in most WSM magazines. Another is the cost of ammunition and/or brass, along with its less widespread availability as compared to many more common calibers. These may be minor issues that are of little concern to some shooters, but may be of greater concern to others.

A 180 grain .30 caliber bullet at ~3,000 fps is an excellent prescription for most types of "thin skinned" larger game. It seems to make much more difference to the shooter than to the animal what kind of rifle or cartridge launched the projectile.

quote:

Originally posted by Karoo:
I am contemplating a 300 WSM in Browning X-Bolt Stainless Stalker.
How versatile is this cartridge, with particular reference to 180 gr bullets? Much is said about the fact that it does not handle heavier bullets well.
I will shoot mainly 165 gr monolithics, but will need to shoot 180 gr bullets at reasonable velocities too.
For use in open terrain for a wide range of species by me and clients.
Please tell me what 180 gr bullet you shoot and at what velocity.
Bear in mind that this rifle has a 23" barrel and our South African powders are a bit slower than those in the US.
Thanks

Karoo, I've had six different 300 WSM's. 4 had 24" barrels, one a 23" barrel, and one a 22" barrel. I like 23 or 24" best.

It is no trick at all to get 2,950 fps with a 180 and any powder suited to the 300 WSM. My last 300 WSM was with a 23" barrel, and I found that the then new RL17 pushed a 180 to 3,030 easily and with good accuracy.

Like most I've got a bit of prejudice, and don't see the need for the 165 with this round. To me, a 300's raison d’être is 180 grain+ bullets.

I generally used 180 Nosler Partitions. Sometimes Accubonds.

My farthest kill with the 180 NP was a bedded antelope buck at a lasered 547 yards. The closest a bull elk at 50 yards. Both were decisive kills.

Here in the Rocky Mountain West, I've found the 300 loaded with 180's to be a wonderful round, antelope to elk. Those two and everything in between should compare favorably to the game you're mostly hunting in SA, Buffalo aside!