Buddy bought an FN on-line that was advertised as 30-06 and when it got here he notice the bbl was stamped 30-06 ICL. i found little mention of this round and need some info please.

I know basically nothing about the cartridge.

Midway has the dies your buddy will need.

30-06 ICL Caribou Dies

Honestly, I would get on the phone and call Midway directly with questions.

The "30/06 ICL Caribou" is shown on page 427 of Ackley's Handbook For Shooters and Reloaders.

Ackley describes it simply as an improved 30/06. He lists a number of loads, but I would start at least 5 grains below anything he lists, just for safety's sake.

On page 379 he also lists the .277 ICL "Flying Saucer", and says IT is identical to the .270/,257 Ackley and that "loading data is interchangeable" between those two. So, it MAY turn out the the 30/06 ICL and 30/06 Ackley Improved also can use the same data, but he does NOT say that.

I do believe your friend MIGHT be able to fireform cases by shooting 30/06 ammo in his rifle, but I would not hold the rifle in my hands to try it. I'd mount it some way that I could pull the trigger usin a long string until I had a couple of fired cases.

Then I'd compare the cases with a .30/06 Improved drawing, and go from there.

After all, even if the two are supposed to be identical, we don't KNOW which reamer was used, and who did the work.

Sounds like a chamber cast is in order.
The 30-06 ICL was a cartridge from about 40-50 years ago. It was a blown out '06 case much like the '06 Ackley. If you can get the actual dimensions from a chamber cast, and have dies made by someone like RCBS, you could have a great rifle. May take some work, but may be something of value.

Don

It might be a good idea to:
1. rechamber to .300 Win Mag
2. Rebarrel to anything you want!

just a thought.

DO NOT under any circumstances mount that rifle and start pulling the trigger with a string!

TAKE the rifle to a gunsmith for a chamber cast and inspection.

You have the makings of a nice rifle. The FN action is top-tier and the .30-06 ICL is a nice cat, near .300 H&H performance.

quote:

Originally posted by Buliwyf:
DO NOT under any circumstances mount that rifle and start pulling the trigger with a string!

TAKE the rifle to a gunsmith for a chamber cast and inspection.

You have the makings of a nice rifle. The FN action is top-tier and the .30-06 ICL is a nice cat, near .300 H&H performance.

+1

Buliwyf and DMB have the right idea. The problem with a lot of "improved" cases is that the factory cartridge from which is was made will not headspace in the improved chamber. There is a way to do it and be safe. Neck all of your '06 brass up to .338. Use one case and progressively neck it back down to .30 cal trying the case each time in the chamber until, with pressure, the bolt will close on the case. At this point, your headspacing has been taken care of and the case should fireform properly. Taking it to a smith for inspection and chamber cast is still a good idea, if for nothing else, to insure the rifle's overall condition is safe.

Measuring a fired case is much easier and usually more accurate than attempting to do a chamber cast. If it were mine, I'd follow Masterifleman's advice and rig an '06 case so that it provides positive headspace, then fire it with a nominal load. This will give you a case expanded to exact chamber dimensions.

quote:

Originally posted by Buliwyf:
DO NOT under any circumstances mount that rifle and start pulling the trigger with a string!

TAKE the rifle to a gunsmith for a chamber cast and inspection.

You have the makings of a nice rifle. The FN action is top-tier and the .30-06 ICL is a nice cat, near .300 H&H performance.

I can see I should have given more details in my original post. First off, I did NOT suggest firing factory ammo in the ICL chamber. What I said was IF he can fire factory rounds in it, I certainly would not recommend he fire it from the shoulder, rather if I did it at all, I would use a LONG string.

While I am at it, a few other clarifications:

1. I doubt he can even chamber a factory '06 round in it. The overall length of the factory '06 round from the base of the case to the top of the shoulder is reportedly 2.132".

The length of the ICL Caribou case from the base to the top of the shoulder is supposedly 2.070".

That means the factory '06 case SHOULD be about .063" too long to fit all the way into the chamber when the '06 shoulder first contacts the front of the ICL chamber. The easy way to find out if the '06 case will fit in the ICL chamber is to take an empty piece of '06 brass and try to chamber it.

The ICL shoulder angle is reportedly 48 degrees & 49 minutes, which allows the body of the ICL case to be longer if one does not include the shoulder length. The ICL is also fatter at the shoulder (0.452") than the standard '06 (0.441"). So case capacity is about 70 grains of water, whereas the factory '06 capacity is normally around 68 grains.

The theory behind the ICL was NOT higher velocity through larger capacity, but was higher velocity through the use of the sharper shoulder and somewhat fatter case, thereby giving Improved Combustion (guess what the IC in "ICL" stands for.....) And they say the fat case and abrupt shoulder is a new idea, right Mr. Jamison?

2. It is unlikely that the ICL is equal to the .300 H&H when both are loaded to the same pressures with the same weight of bullet. Case capacity of the .300 H&H is approximately 89 grains of water, while the capacity of the ICL Caribou is reported as right at 70 grains of water. That is a 27%+ advantage to the .300 H&H, which should translate to about a 7% greater velocity when loaded with the powders appropriate to each.


Anyway, if it was my rifle, I'd start by trying a new factory '06 empty case in it, just to see if it would fit. If it would not, which I would hope would be the situation, I would then try the approach suggested by Masterrifleman, only I would use an empty case and a bushing die to slowly move the shoulder back until it would chamber with a little resistance on the part of the bolt. Then I would load about 50 to 53 grains of 4350 and a 180 grain bullet and try fireforming one case.

At that point I would measure the resulting case and compare my measurements with the cartridge specs given on page 311 of Donnelly's book "The Handloaders Manual of Cartridge conversions". If it appeared I really did have a rifle cxhambered to the ICL Caribou dimensions, hen I'd get a set of the right dies and go from there.

3. Although FN actions are definitely good actions if in good condition, just because something has nostalgia value does not make it a great rifle. If the ICL loading and rifles had been the golly-gee whizzbangs of the era, they would likely have been chambered and produced for a much longer time. For the typical hunter, they did not offer much extra by way of performance, and were a lot more trouble to get ammo for, hence they pretty quickly died out.

I am a bit of a nostalgia freak myself, so I would value a rifle like that. In the average market situation, though, the value is likely to be decreased by that chambering, not increased.

does it also say "Caribou"? Vernon Juenke in the Juenke-Saturn Gunshop of Sparks, Nevada. It has a 45-degree shoulder. They are still in business of some sort, Juenke makes this nifty tool called a bullet comparator, which spins the bullets one at a time to measure runout. Maybe you could contact them and see if their records have the rifle listed. Does it have a maker's mark anywhere?

Rich
DRSS

quote:

Originally posted by Stonecreek:
Measuring a fired case is much easier and usually more accurate than attempting to do a chamber cast. If it were mine, I'd follow Masterifleman's advice and rig an '06 case so that it provides positive headspace, then fire it with a nominal load. This will give you a case expanded to exact chamber dimensions.

That is without a doubt one of the most mishuided statements I've ever heard.

Brass springs back after firing as much as .002" while cerrosafe shrinks a mere fraction of that.

Additionally, you have no friggin idea if the chamber is even a .30-06 anything at this point. No, your advice is good, only if you are a thrill seeker and into near death experiences.

quote:

you have no friggin idea if the chamber is even a .30-06 anything at this point.

This is probably true with ANY/EVERY USED RIFLE anyone buys, if they haven't actually seen it in use and observed the ammo being fired in it.

So, if one wants to be safe when buying a used rifle, should he have chamber casts made for ALL of them? Certainly that would be the safest way, but somehow I doubt its gonna happen in the real world.

The suggestion Masterrifleman made is, in my opinion, a moderately safe approach, though not a perfectly safe one in every single instance.

Life does involve using one's judgement, powers of observation, and practical precautions as each individual deems appropriate to his/her situation at hand.

One thing is pretty much guaranteed, however...no matter how careful, fastidious, compulsive, etc., a person is, he or she will never get out of this world alive!

With that in mind, for myself only, I have chosen to spend a good part of my 70-odd years actually doing things, not using my time to take every possible precaution. So far it has worked out okay. If it doesn't tomorrow, so what? I've had a lot of fun along the way.....