does anyone own a 308 norma mag?
The owner claims it a short 300HH.
Do you reload for it?

quote:

does anyone own a 308 norma mag? The owner claims it a short 300HH. Do you reload for it?

Had one and loved it.
Yep basically the same gross and net capacity
Yep loaded for it until I sold it. I used 165 and 180s and most often RL19. Look at the various manuals and projected velocities are basically the same.

The 308 Norma looks darn close to a 30-338Wmag. it actually came out 3 years before the 300wmag. Both the 300 H&H and 308 Norma give up a little to the 300Wmag. But not enough you would notice the difference.

Very similar to a 300 H&H but on standard length action. Basically a necked down 338 mag case to 30 cal.

They had a run of popularity when hunters with standard length actions chambered for 30-06 wanted to "go Magnum". Boltface was opened from .473 to .532" and the chamber was reamed to the larger diameter case. 03 Springfields were the most common candidate for the operation. With the increasing availability of factory rifles chambered for various 30 Magnums, the rechambering declined - but it is still a very good cartridge.

Most of the 300 mags are about the same in bullet weight, velocity and trajectory, you will never know any difference in the field until you get to the RUM type and then you get 150 FPS if that...The NOrma sufferec high dollare ammo,and brass and the rifle were expensive as a rule as importation fees ran the bill up...Good caliber just wasn't needed in the States.

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
Most of the 300 mags are about the same in bullet weight, velocity and trajectory, you will never know any difference in the field until you get to the RUM type and then you get 150 FPS if that...The NOrma sufferec high dollare ammo,and brass and the rifle were expensive as a rule as importation fees ran the bill up...Good caliber just wasn't needed in the States.

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
Most of the 300 mags are about the same in bullet weight, velocity and trajectory, you will never know any difference in the field until you get to the RUM type and then you get 150 FPS if that...The NOrma sufferec high dollare ammo,and brass and the rifle were expensive as a rule as importation fees ran the bill up...Good caliber just wasn't needed in the States.

Well, what killed the .308 Norma wasn't because it wasnt needed or desirable rather it was because Winchester, a major arms manufacture came out with their .300 which is by far the most popular .300 mag. Suddenly folks could get a .300 for a realitively low price that exceeded the enemic H&H round as loaded by American factories that also fit into a .30-06 length action just like the Norma does.

There are still a fair number of 308 Norma mags out there. I still have 3 of them. Like Ray said 308N, 300 Win or 300 Wby there is really no difference in the field. If you only shoot factory ammo, yes the Norma ammo is pricey.Handloading solves all that.

I just traded for one. A 22" Parker Hale. Hopefully my dies will arrive Monday and I can get busy making brass. Thanks to snowman I procured copious amounts of 300 Win Mag brass, made by Norma.
I predict that it's going to be fun and more fun.

I have both the 300 H&H and the 308 Norma. I wouldn't call the Norma a short H&H. It actually bests the H&H by a little. I have to agree with Ray on the 300's. In the field there is no discernible difference between the H&H, Norma, Winchester or Weatherby.

My 308 Norma has a little history to it.

Thanks for the info. I have a 300 win mag. in a model 70 and I really like it. but the norma mag is very tempting

mart" My 308 Norma has a little history to it"
Is that the same Chas Askins border patrol law or outlaw. some say he was tough on outlaws

Yes. That was one of Colonel Charles Askins rifles. Left hand conversion on a pre 64 model 70 by Kerr Sports Shop in California.

He was tough on bad guys.

Yeh, I read his Bio once and he claimed he killed like 30 some bsd guys I belive he was
psych-O. like he caimed.

All I can remember about Chas Askins was that he hated double-barrel shotguns.

I wonder if part of the 308 Norma magnum's failure came from the number. Somehow, three hundred sounds more authoritive than three-oh-eight, which brings to mind a stunted .30'06

Hindsight is 20-20. Improving 30-06 ballistics without going to a long action for a 300 H&H or 300 Wby (or similar long action wildcat) was a popular pastime in the late 50's . Why Winchester didn't include a 30 cal when they released the 264, 338 and 458 magnums in 1959 all designed to work in std length actions. The 30 cal would likely have been what we now know to be the 30-338. Norma beat them to the punch. Norma had released the 358 Norma in 1959 also.They seen a niche in the American market and marketed 308 Norma brass and loaned reamers to gunsmiths in 1961. Norma also attempted to work with American manufactures to ensure the success of the 308 Norma.They even sent a quantity of brass to Winchester for testing. I suspect Remington declined because they were getting the 7mm Rem mag ready for the market and released it in 1962. Win played with the Norma case and developed there own case that was just long enough to clean up the chamber on a rifle chambered in 308 Norma. This was the 300 Win and was released in 1963. Most rifle manufactures started chambering for the Win version. With factory ammo for the Win version being 1/2 the price of the Norma ammo guess which caliber became the runaway best seller.
When used in a mauser 98 or similar length action magazine length could be a little longer for the 300 Win. Bullets must be seated deeply and the deep seated bullets consume some of the extra case capacity the 300 Win has. The useful capacity is almost the same between the 308 N & the 300 Win as are the ballistics. Both are very good big game cartridges.

Thanks snowman. the progression of these calibers can get lost. As shooter and reloaders we like to keep reinventing.
the 30-338 is there an AI version and does it gain much on the standard 338?

There always seems to be some AI type attempts on just about every cartridge. Honestly they gain little over the originals, especially in magnums like the 308NM, 300 Win and the like.

I doubt the 308 Norma's moniker had anything to do with it's lack of popularity. It had more to do with the availability of brass and ammo and the expense as well as a lack of rifles so chambered. At the time of it's introduction if you told others you shot a 300, they would know you referred to the 300 Savage. The 300 Weatherby, despite being introduced in 1944, had a limited though slowly growing following.

As to Askins dislike of doubles, I don't recall that from his bio. I know he had several O/U's and fine Spanish doubles.

quote:

Originally posted by mart:

As to Askins dislike of doubles, I don't recall that from his bio. I know he had several O/U's and fine Spanish doubles.

Perhaps he was just taking part in a debate. I recall a garbage bin full of db guns and a heading something like: Trash those double shotguns. He argued that American self-loaders and pump guns would far outlast doubles, which may well be true, though they don't have the two-chokes choice. Other than maybe AyAs, I didn't think he had much regard for Spanish guns.

As a related opinion, I think of Jackie Stewart the racing driver, who was also a competition shooter and ran a shooting school. Though he owned several best London guns, he opined that ordinary Beretta O/Us would outlast them many times.

I just ran 50 300 Win Mag brass through the 308 Norma FL sizer. That looks like a fantastic round! Sexy long neck.
I wished that someone would have thought of it.
Pics in the morning.