Spurred on by another posting asking about 180 & 200 grain loads in the 30/06, for heavy game, it sparked some of my " what if" thoughts.

I usually load 200 grain bullets with 62.5 grains of H 4831 SC powder for an MV of 2850 or so out of a 24 inch barrel.

We had a little dry spell in between all the rain and the 'honey do" projects so I tried working up the same load with a 220 grain Round Nose and check out if there were any pressure problems via loose primer pockets.

Well using Remington and Winchester brass, with CCI primers and a 1903 Springfield, a 1917 Enfield and a Winchester Model 70, loading a 220 grain Round Nose with 62.5 grains of H 4831 SC presented no problems at all pressure wise. Accuracy was excellent in all three rifles.

It also seemed to really pack a wallop shooting into some wood about 10 inches thick.

Bullets were both Hornady and Sierra 220 grain RNs. IN the Enfield I tried it seated out to magazine length. IN the Springfield and the Winchester Model 70 they were seated to the cannelure.

Anyone with quick load, if you can estimate velocity and pressure the rest of us would appreciate it. I know that loads with RL 22 claim 2600 fps with the 220 grain bullets.

I am estimating an MV of 2750 or better with this one. When the rains quit maybe then I can chronograph this load. One notices an increase in Recoil, but he we are all tough guys here.

I will load up some for my spring bear hunting here, but I am more interested in trying it in some milk jug tests.

Cheers and good shooting
seafire

Well your two grains over max with the 200 and 4 grains over max with the 220. This is with unpublished data.

with published data you are 4 grains and 6 grains over.

Loose primer pockets are the last pressure sign before case seperation. If your primer pockets get loose you are way over max.

I only say this to inform so that someone new to reloading doesn't think they can just start stuffing the case full of powder.

My max loads in my 26" barreled 300 win mag get the same velocity you get in your 30-06. 200 grain at 2850. This tells me you are loading to the extreme.

Good luck to ya though.

I will guess that you are loading 80000+

So hopefully we will hear from a quickload user. Maybe I need to try h4831sc in my loads .

quote:

Originally posted by RMiller:
Well your two grains over max with the 200 and 4 grains over max with the 220. This is with unpublished data.

with published data you are 4 grains and 6 grains over.

Loose primer pockets are the last pressure sign before case seperation. If your primer pockets get loose you are way over max.

I only say this to inform so that someone new to reloading doesn't think they can just start stuffing the case full of powder.

My max loads in my 26" barreled 300 win mag get the same velocity you get in your 30-06. 200 grain at 2850. This tells me you are loading to the extreme.

Good luck to ya though.

I will guess that you are loading 80000+

So hopefully we will hear from a quickload user. Maybe I need to try h4831sc in my loads .

R Miller:

Yeah I am interested in the input from someone with Quickload. Actually we had someone on here last year that was a ballistician at Nosler and he indicated in their testing that the pressure of a 200 grain load with 62 grains of H 4831 SC was well within SAAMI specs, and that the velocity of 2850 would be about right.

It is also published and stated alot that the factory ammo for the 300 Mag is not loaded anywhere near its potential.

But all handloaders need to work up their loads in their own rifles. That should be Rule Number One, unless Rule Number ONE is don't smoke when you are handling powder! Then make working up, rule number TWO in that case.
cheers
seafire

Speer also shows 59 grains to be a compressed load with a 180 grain bullet.

So it must be quite a feat to put 62 into a csae with those heavy bullets. 4' drop tube.

NO actually 62.5 grains in Winchester and Remington brass, it fills those cases up to the bottom of the neck in my cases. Yes it is a compressed charge, but nothing I'd be concerned about as most H 4831SC charges are compressed by most handloaders.

IN some of my 8 x 57 load data, ( that is not for the older version) the powder completely fills the case to the rim. the 62.5 grains in an 06 case is not near that. I have loaded 66 grains into an 06 case of H 4831 SC. Now that is a full case, but with a 180 grain bullet seated to the cannelure, it did not present a problem in any of my 30/06s, only when it was loaded with the 200 grain Speer and 66 grains of powder.

NO drop tube used.


seafire

I am not using factory loads in my 300 win.
I am using max handloads.

Most with the case full.

73 grains of h4831 is all I can put into a 300 win mag case with a 200 grain barnes TXS.

RMiller,

That may indeed be a max load for you with H4831. But that powder is faster than optimum for that case and that bullet. You could get much better velocities with slower powders and the 200 in the 300 Win. So it really isn't fair to say since that's all you get with your load in the 300, a load with a powder that may be a much better choice for the 30-06 is way over pressure.

Probably been asked before, but what's the difference between SC and the regular 4831? Is the reloading data interchangeable?
peter.

SC stands for short cut, meaning the powder is cut to shorter lengths. It's to make it meter better in a powder measuse and the data is the same.

The data is not interchangable. The powders do burn a little different from different sized granules. At least this is what hodgdon had informed when it first came out with the short cut version. FWIW.

Yep, H4831 is different to H4831SC. Marketed in Australia as AR2213 and AR2213SC, I think the SC is 3% slower or thereabouts. I believe you can interchange SC charges for the old stuff (because SC is slower) but not vice-versa.
Cheers...
Con

Why the need to load that fast anyway. a 220 grain RN at 2400 fps will work on just about anything. I don't have any SC H4831 but the original fills the case up purty good im my 30-06 casesx. Also 60 grains of the old regular cut does start showing some pressure with the 180 grain Speer Mag Tip in my rifle. It does give just under 2900 fps though which is plenty for any job I would ask of it.

Seafire...I am you friendly, honest and frank FREE LUNCH man....sorry, no free lunch today. Record ME for the '06 at 65,000 psi is 3350 FPE. You are near 3600 FPE with your 200 gr load, so its too hot to make 65,000 psi.

It is very hard to say what someone else's rifle is doing, but I've never been able to top 2700 fps with 200 grainers out of a 24" .30-06, at least not safely.

This is just my opinion and you are more than welcome to discard it, but I'm thinking that with those loads and speeds in a .30-06 you are in serious danger of blowing up one of those rfles every time you pull the trigger. Just because they haven't blown up yet is no signal that they are not about to. Just a WAG, but I'm thinking Quick Load would show your pressure at upwards of 75,000 to 80,000 fps. Not enough to blow on any one firing, but the cumulative effect will weaken those rifles to the point that they might give on a "normal" load sometime in the not too far future.

Summary: those loads are WAY too hot.

I ran a scenario past quick load. It came up with the 200 grain load doing 2784 fps with 67,100 psi. So I can see it possible that there might not be much for pressure signs. Some real experienced guru's have reported going up to about 75k before seeing pressure signs on certain lots of brass. ALSO, I have some h4831sc that is terrifically slow in velocity. All that being said I believe Seafire is getting the velocity and not "showing" pressure but as most have pointed out it is a load that is "on the edge" or slightly beyond.

quote:

Originally posted by Sabot:
Seafire...I am you friendly, honest and frank FREE LUNCH man....sorry, no free lunch today. Record ME for the '06 at 65,000 psi is 3350 FPE. You are near 3600 FPE with your 200 gr load, so its too hot to make 65,000 psi.

Sabot,
I am following that, but you need to use a little less technical lingo for the rest of we peons in here. Do you work at the Radford Arsenal?

If so, I would love to run some other stuff by you!

Cheers
seafire

Guys, below are the veloocity/pressure predictions from QL for many of the "best" powders in a 30-06 Spring, with 24" barrel, 200 gr. Nosler Accubond, & OAL 3.34." Norma MRP is the "best" performer, but you can't buy it in the USA anymore. That Re25 load looks promising - it's the one I'd try to workup to, and I think it's doable. Also, the VVn560 looks good, and Retumbo might work well, especially if one could get a bit more powder in the case than 63 grs. H4831sc is respectable, but not the best; and, at 62.5 grs. you're at 77,000 PSI - "primer poppin' country."

Powder/%fill/grs. powder/velocity fps/PSI

MRP/113.0/60.7/2822/65000
Re25/120.0/62.1/2810/64789
N560/111.1/60.3/2803/65000
MAGPRO/114.1/62.9/2793/65000
Re22/113.9/59.9/2788/65000
WXR/112.6/60.2/2787/65000
RamMag/114.9/64.0/2778/65000
I7828SSC/111.3/59.5/2774/65000
RamHun/102.2/56.6/2742/65000
Retumbo/120.0/62.8/2738/58468
H4831SC/111.8/60.0/2731/65000
H4831sc/116.4/62.5/2862/77000

I ran the program again but allowed for 125% case filling. I was able to get 66.5 grs. of Retumbo in a Lapua 30-06 Springfield unfired case. These slow-burner loads are very doable! - you can get 2800 fps + in a 24" barreled '06!

MRP/113.0/60.7/2822/65000
Retumbo/123.1/64.4/2820/65000
MRP-2/123.0/64.0/2818/65000
Re25/120.1/62.1/2813/65000
N560/111.1/60.3/2803/65000

quote:

Originally posted by seafire/B17G:

quote:

Originally posted by Sabot:
Seafire...I am you friendly, honest and frank FREE LUNCH man....sorry, no free lunch today. Record ME for the '06 at 65,000 psi is 3350 FPE. You are near 3600 FPE with your 200 gr load, so its too hot to make 65,000 psi.

Sabot,
I am following that, but you need to use a little less technical lingo for the rest of we peons in here. Do you work at the Radford Arsenal?

If so, I would love to run some other stuff by you!

Cheers
seafire

Seafire -

I have worked for Radford in the past as a contractor.

The loads that AI user posted are interesting, and some do appear to get up to 3600 ft-lbs of energy. However, the level of compression he is using is a little off my scale. There are a few published 200 gr '06 loads that approach 2650 fps when held to 60,000 psi, so it may be possible to get to 2800 at 65,000 psi using very slow powders and compression.

The loads listed above wouldn't be that tough to compress - compression is not a problem as long as the bullet doesn't push back out. I've found Re25 fairly easy to compress without bullet extrusion.