I think this question fits in the medium bore. What is your idea of the perfect "mountain" rifle, caliber, action, stock & scope? I had one built for my likes: Win. M70 in .280 rem. 23" bbl. nice wood stock w/ checkered steel butt & grip cap 3-9 Leup. compact in SSk mounts total wt = 7.25# With 150grNP @ 2950fps, I'm good on goat, sheep & Thar, etc. If elk are in the area & on my tag, I load 160grNP @ 2850fps just in case. If I were to do it again, I think I would go w/ one of the short mags, but I'm happy w/ the .280.
Posts: 7752 | Location: kalif.,usa | Registered: 08 March 2001
I would use a prairie gun works titanium action with fluted 24" stainless barrel.Stock would be mcmillan with decellerator pad.The caliber would be 7mmwsm to provide maximum performance in a short action.I would mount a 3x10x42 swarovski scope.The rifle would be very light,very accurate,and very durable as well as resistant to mountain climate which often includes rain.
Posts: 3104 | Location: alberta,canada | Registered: 28 January 2002
I'd have to pick my 300 WSM Model 70 FWT with the 3.5-10X Leupold.....yes, I'd have to pick that one even though it's all hype and even though I carried an 11.25 pound 470 NE on my last elk hunt!
Good Hunting,
------------------ Andy Cooper
Posts: 6711 | Location: Oklahoma, USA | Registered: 14 March 2001
I suppose my "Mountain Rifle" is a 300 WSM... mine is a Model 70 (stainless) with the barrel shortened to 22." It has a matte-black Leupold 3x9 Compact on top (9.3 oz's), set in/on Weaver stainless bases and rings (3.3 oz's). With an Uncle Mikes "Mountain Sling" (3.4 oz's) and three rounds in the magazine it goes 8lbs 4.4 oz's. Give or take 1/10th of an ounce, hah!
I plan to stock it in a fiberglass Rimrock stock as soon as they fix their SA Win 70 mold (late spring)... total weight should come in at 7lbs. 14 oz's (give ore take)... that's light enough.
My smith here locally is nationally known for his lightweight mountain rifles. We were talking one day a few months back about rifle weights. After hunting sheep in AK with a very light, muzzle-light rifle, he's settled on a muzzle-heavy rifle with a weight of about 7 3/4 lbs (all-up) as an ideal compromise... enough weight in the muzzle (and all around) to "settle down" for the shot... that pretty well fits with my ideas, so of course, I liked what he had to say!
McMillan Mtn Rifle Stock (Blue w/grey,blk gelcoat) Rem 700SA(teflon-coated) in ADL repeater configuration PacNor bbl SS 2.5 contour, 22.5", chambered in 7-08AI, 11 twist Optics are Leupold 2.5X8 in DD mounts(lapped) Whole pkge weighs in at 7lbs 15oz
Load is 140gr Part,BT or Hornady 139 Interlocks at 2950fps. H4350 powder
Mine used to ba a custom sako in 308 (brown precision stock, fluted barrel), but now I guess I will use the blaser 93 offroad and the 30WSM barrel, with the 3-9X36 swarovski... olivier
If it was to be a custom rifle I would probably go with a 308 from Rifles Inc, but as the budget won't allow that I'll stick to my Weatherby Ultra light.
McMillin rem. mtn. rifle stock, 22" barrel #2 contour Lilja, model 700 action(short or long), leupold vari-x III 3.5x10x40, standard caliber from 6.5x55 to 30-06, all stainless.
I don't dwell too much on rifle weight; seven and a half pounds is fine. One carries them more than one shoots them while hunting, so a lighter rifle may seem the ticket, but exercising and keeping my weight in check results in more saved weight than can be gained from paring actions, etc.. Don't drink that last beer, get up and go for a brisk walk, and don't worry about the weight of your rifle! Just my humble redneck opinion.
I guess I'm the cheap guy in the bunch. Model 7 Remington(out of the box-Ouch) .260Rem., Burris Compact glass, and Warne rings. It's good for tighter groups than I'm capable of.
I'm seeing a lot of similar thinking in this thread, and I guess you can say I concur. I had my ultimate sheep rifle built over the past year, by one of the more prominent gunsmiths on these forums. He built, to my specs, the following:
A blueprinted Winchester M70 classic stainless short action, Pac-Nor stainless super match 23" #1 contour with 1-10 twist chambered to 284 Winchester throated to take advantage of the 3" magazine length. 0.610" at the muzzle. It looks quite heavy compared to the typical 1/2" light weight rifle barrel! Makes the rifle balance perfectly on the front guard screw, not butt heavy like the factory featherweights. All pillar bedded in a Bansner stock. We kept the factory trigger, perfectly adjusted to 2-1/4#. With a Swarovski AV 3-9X36 with 4a reticle in Conetrol mounts, it weighs just under 7#. It's steadier offhand that some 9# rifles I have.
1/2" groups are a matter of course for the rifle, I'm not always as good. I can't imagine a better sheep rifle. Actually, with 140 failsafes or XLC's, I can't imagine a better all-around rifle. I plan on hunting with it as my primary rifle for a very long time.
Posts: 235 | Location: British Columbia | Registered: 08 November 2000
That sounds like a REAL rifle to me. Any small ring 98 Mauser, Timney trigger, M-70 bolt handle, contoured bottom metal, lever lock mag release, 21" barrel, Kahles 1.5X6 in Conetrol mounts and rings, a stock of real walnut, AAA or better with 28 lpi checkering in my favourite light game caliber, the 7X57mm Ackley Improved.
I'm not much on the light weight so called mountain rifles, they don't hold well when I'm out of breath and I mostly am that in the mountains...
I still pack a Pre 64 Win. M-70 with a Custom stock in 300 H&H and it suits me fine at 9-3/4 lbs...I also have a Brno 22F in 7x57 and it probably weighs 9 Lbs. with scope and loaded...
Anyone looking to get a light rifle on the cheap would do well to take a look at the Ruger short actions in stainless synthetic with the new style stock . Very light and handy for not many $$$ and the stock seems to be fair bit stiffer than most factory tupperware ..........
Posts: 1660 | Location: Gary , SD | Registered: 05 March 2001
Johan, you Swedes don't typically have much in way of mountains in your country.
I did answer the question, but realized I mis-read it... I gave what I have, not what I think is the best.
What I think is best would be:
An all-stainless Model 70 with the featherweight bbl. contour (22") chambered in 270, stocked in fiberglass with a Leupold 2x7 on top (in light mounts)... nigh ideal.
Johan, in light of your dim view of overweight hunters with the prerequisite light rifle attached, I offer the following. My ultimate rifle described above will go on my back each year along with a 60+ pound backpack. There are no horses in sight, no guides to do the hunting for me, and we're talking about crawling up the Rockies mountains after goat and sheep. And I don't have a "funnypack" around my waist to lose. Almost anybody can carry a heavy rifle on ordinary hunts or in the mountains for a day or two. But put everything you need to live on your back and hike into the mountains for 7-10 days, and the crowd shrinks damned fast. If you tried a lighter rifle that was designed to balance at that weight, you might adjust your opinion about the necessity of a heavy rifle. Hunt long enough on your own, without the cushion of a guide to carry the heavy stuff back where the sheep live, and a light rifle will make a lot more sense.
Posts: 235 | Location: British Columbia | Registered: 08 November 2000
While I agree that we all should be in the best shape we can, the weight of a rifle for the normal "deer" hunter is of little point. I am talking about a rifle used in the mountains, steep stuff, all day, sheep & goat, maybe elk. I have gone up & down the steep stuff & while I can always be in better shape, there is a difference in toting a 9# rig & a 7# rig (JMO),
Posts: 7752 | Location: kalif.,usa | Registered: 08 March 2001
I too second the last two posts. When your up high enough that the clouds pass below you the weight is important! The air is thin and the terrain is ussually steep and rocky as the plants and grasses don't grow because they can't. Last year out in Wyoming hunting Mule deer I carried my 700 Mtn rifle in .270. I have is scoped with a VariV-III and a good sling this was a dream to hike with. The last time I went out I took a Ruger 77 in 30-06 with a Redfield 3-9 and a custom stock. Wow what a difference.
If I were going to buy a backup gun to the 700 described above, I would opt for the Remmington model Seven in .308.
My 2 cents....
Posts: 241 | Location: Grand Rapids, Mi, usa | Registered: 27 March 2002
RickF, easy big fella'! Keep in mind how spoiled we are in B.C. with the game and freedom to hunt so many great spots on your own without some wrangler tagging along...oops! Maybe I shouldn't say any more. Next thing you know, everyone will want to hunt here! 2lbs. or more reduction in rifle weight is great, but by the end of the day they are all heavy, eh?
Do to my loathing of the WSMs, even though they are short, fast, accurate, and make for a light handy rifle, I would pick the one and only, Jack O'Connor-tested 270 winchester. The rifle; A Jarrett custom "Wind Walker", scoped with the scope that comes on the rifle... a Swarovski 3-10x42. The whole setup weighs 7.25 pounds. And I would load it with 150 gr Nosler Ballistic Tips, with a corresponding load of 150 gr Nosler Partitions for elk.
Daryl, I hear you! No question, when it comes to mountain hunting we've got the answer. I just tire of reading on these threads how a light rifle is silly idea, just lose the weight off your waist. The one constant seems to be that hunters who hunt the mountains all agree on the light rifle concept. It's hunters who don't hunt this way that condemn it. As you know, the math is simple when it comes to that 2 pounds. The first day, 7 pounds is better that 9 (or 67 is better than 69). The second day, 7 pounds is much better than 9. The third day, 7 pounds is much much better than 9. etc.
Posts: 235 | Location: British Columbia | Registered: 08 November 2000
I started backpacking seriously in 1975, and have since that time loggged thousands of miles with heavy packs, including one three-month stroll with a pack that went near 70 lbs at times and winter trips with a pack in excess of 75 to 80 lbs (I'm a glutton for punishment).
A rifle is a particular problem, as unlike weight in a pack that, if properly loaded, is bearing down through your body's center of gravity onto your hips and legs. A rifle is a fairly heavy piece (no matter the weight) that is generally carried away from your center of gravity (if not slung, and carried "at the ready" as it should be while hunting). It has to have enough weight to mitigate recoil and "settle down" for the shot, yet can't be so heavy as to be an undue burden. Everyone finds their "compromise weight" to accomodate thes conflicting needs. The old packer's axiom "one pound on your feet is like five on your back" is utterly true... I believe, more or less, the same holds nearly true for rifles.
Enjoyable backpacking is an excercise in reducing fatigue and discomfort in every way possible as backpacking is, by its very nature, fatiguing and uncomfortable! This usually means aquiring and using the lightest, best made, best-fitting, most comfortable gear possible... the rifle is no exception.
Barret M82A1 .50 BMG with 800 grain Barnes solid @ 2700 fps and a Nightforce NSX 12-42x56 No seriously, on an unlimited budget, mine would be much like my brother's (David)but a .30/06 with one load, a 180 gr Nosler Partition somewhere around 2700 fps. One a more limited budget, I'd go for the Rem KS Mountian Rifle and cheaper than that would be the regular BDL, both still in 06.
I guess I'm an old fat lazy hunter, because some years back I decided that toting a rifle that felt like it weighed a ton half way up the mountain just wouldn't do. Being a wuss, I built myself a 284 Win on a Rem Mohawk action with a light profile Shilen barrel. Throated for a 3" col, magazine modified to feed same, and put in a nice light synthetic (ugly) stock. Put a Leupold 2 x 7 on it. What do you know, a very nice little rifle that equals my 280 and weighs two pounds less. I like the concept, and I like the rifle. Anyone who ridicules the idea of packing less weight either has something to prove or doesn't spend much time on a mountain. - Dan
Posts: 5284 | Location: Alberta | Registered: 05 October 2001
Out-of-the-box Weatherby Ultralite in 280 Rem. with 3x9 US made Zeiss scope. 6.3# with 2 in the box and 1 in the barrel. It will keep ANYTHING I want to give it inside an inch. Oh....the lightweight camo sling added a few ounces. Gary.
Posts: 1970 | Location: NE Georgia, USA | Registered: 21 March 2002
My primary mountain rifle is a Model 70 270 feather weight. My back up is a M 70 300 Win. This feather weight is my second go around with the noddle barrels. I like the weight, but can't get them to shoot. I went so far as to take both the 270 and the 300 and shoot them at the same time. Three rounds out of the 270, 3 rounds out of the 300, just to make sure is wasn't my shooting. 300 grounped fine, 270 scattered them. I tried every powder and bullet combination imaginable. I ended up hunting with the regular weight 300. The 270, although new, went off the have a new custom Rocky Mountain Rifle Works barrel out on. I am having it contoured to be front heavy. I have a muzzle loader with a swamped barrel. It weighs more than muzzle loaders with regular barrels, but with the weight forward, it feels lighter. That's not just my opionin, but everybody that has ever handeld it picked it as lighted than it is. I've had to put it on a scale against several other rifles to prove that it's heavier. So my new barrel will be heavier up front. I'm going to try to fir the same stock, but just in case, I have a Richard's stock coming. I'll cut the weight any way I can.
So much of what passes in these forms is presented as gospel and applicable to all, when it's really a matter of personal taste, and in extreme cases, a tolerance for masochism. (RUM, Weatherby, Ectc.)I will make trip number 22 to Colorado for elk and mule deer this coming year. The discomforts and aches are part of the ritual, as much as campfires and the BS that crosses them. Wouldn't it be a godawful world, is somebody invented the perfect rifle, at the perfect weight, with the perfect calibur, firing the perfect bullet into the same hole every time. It's a world I wouldn't want to live in.
Posts: 631 | Location: North Dakota | Registered: 14 March 2002
RogerK, Try a business card folded once & place it under the front of the bbl. for a bit of upward pressure. Sometimes this helps w/ the thin bbls. I like the M70 as a light weight rifle. If I didn't have the rifles I do, I would probably buy one in .330WSM & that would be my new mountain rifle.
Posts: 7752 | Location: kalif.,usa | Registered: 08 March 2001
HI, David Gentry,built a mountain rifle for me ,on a Sako action,in .338.Brown Stock,with muzzlebrake.Shoots very well,and pleasant to shoot and carry. 1geejay www.shooting-hunting.com
I just brought my new custom rifle home today. I had a M700 built into a 338-06AI with a 23.5" barrel and topped with a 2-8x Burris Signature. Fully loaded, this jem balances perfectly and tips the scale at 9.8lbs. Recoil is reminiscent of a 3" 12ga.
Now I don't claim to be superhuman, nor do I need a mountain rifle of this weight to counterbalance an excessively large head. But in my experience, any rifle is heavy at the end of the day. Regardless of elevation, fitness, etc, etc. I opted for the extra poundage for two reasons: First, I'm made several successful shots at big game while extreemly winded/fatigued. A heavy rifle helped make those shots possible. Second, balanced gun is easier to carry than an unbalanced gun of equal weight. Also, they are easier to shoot off hand or in awkward/spontaneous situations.
I've hunted high country before with heavier guns. And I don't feel as though the weight diminished my odds. Even so, I learned what my personal limits are and I think like most of you all, I've found something that fits me.
But in the light of all the 6.5-7.5lb discussion, I can't help but wonder, "am I crazy?"
quote:Originally posted by fredj338: RogerK, Try a business card folded once & place it under the front of the bbl. for a bit of upward pressure. Sometimes this helps w/ the thin bbls. I like the M70 as a light weight rifle. If I didn't have the rifles I do, I would probably buy one in .330WSM & that would be my new mountain rifle.
I tried pressure on the barrel. A little. A lot. It didn't help. Any other advice is too late. My new barrel should have been installed last week if the gunsmith is on schedule.
Posts: 631 | Location: North Dakota | Registered: 14 March 2002
I do most of my hunting on my hind feet w/backpack. I've owned, built, bought swapped, etc a boatload of "mountain rifles" over the last 25 years.
My current project is a Rem 700 short action with a 21.5" bbl. in 338-08. The rifle is done now and weighs 5lb. 11 0z. w/Leo VX-II 2X7. The rifle is done but the dies won't be here 'til next week, then I'll start shootin'.
If anybody is interested, I'll post results as available.
Last fall I picked up a Stainless Remington ADL Mountain Rifle in .270 Win. for $215.00 from a local pawn shop (I don't think they knew what they had). The synthetic stock looks like it spent alot of time in a scabbard or something because it's pretty rough, but the metal and bore are great. I did some research and found out Remington only made ADL Mountain Rifles for a short time in the 80's.
I mounted a Matte Leupold Vari-XIII 2.5x8x36 on it and it shoots great and is easy to carry.
Welcome to the forum JimF. Of course we are interested how your 338/08 shoots.
I hunt in New England. We have mountains here too but most of them have trees everywhere. This means that it's really hard to see more than 75 to 150 yards.
My favorites are my M99's in .358 Winchester. I may not carry the rifle all of the time in my hands while I am still hunting but it's most of the time. The scopes are Lyman 4X non permacenters with Weaver mounts. The rifles groups into about 1.5" at 100 yards with the 180 gr Speer flat nose.
I have shot whitetails running, walking, bedded and standing at all ranges from 20 feet to about 200 yards with one of these game getters. Such a rig weights 8 lbs full up. I like the featherweight bbls for running game.
Just my humble redneck opinion.
