I'm having trouble deciding what I would like to buy next. I'm doing my best to research the pros and cons of each cartridge and although I want to talk myself into the STW, I keep seeing the practicality of the RM. According to all my reading etc... the STW could give a fella about 15 yards more of MPBR using the 3" up and 3" down criteria. That part is nice, but then I think about how much easier RM ammo is to find and afford (they have a couple of choices even a Wal-Mart). The choices for rifles also opens up a lot more for the RM. I could sure use some input, especially from those who have had both.
Thanks so much,
Rod

As a side note, I'm looking in some of my dated manuals and one of Nosler's loadings for 7 RM has the MV for their 140gr. Partition at 3320 fps over 65.5 gr. of RL 19 and the 150 gr. at 3230 over 63.0 gr of IMR 4350 with a 23.5" barrel and lists them both as the most accurate loads tested as well......isn't that approaching STW velocities?

[ 01-23-2003, 04:59: Message edited by: vibrasonic9 ]

I have both the 7mm. Rem. and 7mm. STW, both with 24" Remington barrels. I can not get more than 50 fps more with the 7 STW, keeping pressures the same. Both are quite accurate. I prefer the 7mm. Rem. because I get about the same accuracy and velocity with a lot less powder. The only powder I have used that even fills the 7mm. Rem. case is H-870, so I see no real advantage of the larger case.

Dale, if you are trying to get better load density in your 7RM, try IMR7828 or H1000. I have used aa8700 in my 7mmDakota, and while it fills the case nicely, velocity is about 75fps less than IMR7828 or RL22.

Ever thought of a 270 win, ROD?

[ 01-23-2003, 05:53: Message edited by: smallfry ]

smallfry,
I think the .270 is an excellent suggestion, but I already have a .280 Ruger M77MkII. This little Ruger has a 3X9 Burris Compact on it and will shoot factory Remington 150 CoreLokt stuff in a one-hole three-shot group......that's the rifle not me, I'm not that good a shot really. It would seem, given that knowledge, I am departing from common sense with my quest into 7 mag land.....but, my ruger is wood and blue and I want to go with a ss/syn rig. I figure since I'm buying a new gun, I might as well get something I don't already have; yet stay with the 7mm caliber that I'm so fond of. I've even given the 7WSM some thought, but I'd rather go with the 7RM over that.........but still stewing over the RM vs. STW.

As someone that has owned two 7mm rem mags and loaded for several more and has owned three 7mm stw 's(still own two) here are my findings.The 7mm mags have delivered 3200 to 3300fps with 140gr handloads with 24" barrels.The stw's have produced from 3450 to 3550fps with 140gr handloads and 26" barrels.I have never used factory stw loads so I can't compare factory loads.

[ 01-23-2003, 08:01: Message edited by: stubblejumper ]

As noted in an earlier post, I like the 7mag. The 7stw is faster, but not enough to justify the extra expense. If speed is what your looking for, skip right over the stw and give the 7 ultra mag a look. If your gonna abuse that barrel, do it right

One more quick note, the 7RM rifles that I'm considering all have 26" barrels......what difference can be expected from that over the 24" tubes?
Thanks again folks, I appreciate the help.
Rod

STW is really impressive in long barrel ,over 28 inch as a 30 inch you get real impressive velocity for long range shooting ( same as the new 7 ULTRA MAG ) , shoot 7 STW in a 24 inch make nice muzzle flash and you spend more money to win closely nothing

7 REM mag can deliver enought velocity in hunting weight barrel without fish rod lenght barrel

both cartridge are interesting but 7 REM MAG is more easy

DAN TEC

I would suggest the best for over the counter stuff.....7mm Rem Mag ! If you want any other than go big, and buy the RUM in 7mm. If your gonna burn extra powder, you might as well burn a hell of alot more..
Dennis

I had a 27" barreled 7mm stw and a 26" barreled 7mm rem mag, both with custom tubes. The stw was good for about 250 fps more than the rem mag, both shooting 140 gr partitions. The stw does offer quite a performance jump, but it takes a long barrel. A 24" stw is just silly. Take everything you read in a reloading manual with a grain of salt. My 26" 7mm rem mag wouldn't do 3320 across a chronograph with a 140 gr partition and anything I considered a safe load, and that was with a powder it liked, certainly not with RL19.

[ 01-23-2003, 12:07: Message edited by: boltman ]

Both my 7MM Remington and 7MM STW both have 26" Douglas barrels. With a 139 Gr Hornady the STW is about 200 fps faster and with a 160 Gr. bullet about 350 fps faster. So I think it is worth the differance if you are talking long range shooting. In close to 300 yards I'd take the 7MM Remington longer shooting I take the STW. It is pretty awesome at 400 and 500 yards.

Gentlemen,

I have played with both, and I really don't think the STW is enough "extra" to justify for me. I have used my 7 Mag to take over 100 head of African plains game, including 400 yard shots on tough game. It has worked great for me. I think the 7mm RM is as much 7mm as a guy needs. If you are really concerned about delivering a lot of freight to a long-range target, How about the .358 STA or a .375 RUM. Those should really be a step up.

One way or another, either one is an incredibly effective big game round, even if they do have belts or aren't "short". Best of luck with whatever rifle you choose. You're not going to go wrong either way.

Joel Slate
Slate & Associates, LLC
www.slatesafaris.com

7mm Rem Mag Page www.slatesafaris.com/7mm.htm

I bought the Rem. Sendero SSF in 7m STW. I expected like everyone else to get the sizzling velocities advertised, not so. I can push a 140 gr. bullet no faster than 3372 with a Barnes XBT and 3300 with a Nosler BT. I tried every dog-gonned powder I could think of and could not get anywhere near the vels I expected. Nor was the accuracy there. It took every trick of reloading and gun tinkering I know of to get down to just making the MOA mark. Once the STW met SAMMI specs, the hot-dogging vels went out the window. Supposedly, the 7mm RUM does what the STW was supposed to do, but burn me once, shame on you, burn me twice...

I honestly believe the standard Remington mag can do anything the STW can do with less powder and less agravation. Fifty to 100 fps is nothing out in the field IMO.

Having owned both I found no advantage of owning the STW.

For deer I load a 120 out of the 7 RM at 3,500 fps
this will shoot as flat as a STW using 140s. The 120s will do everything on deer a 140 can do at the same ranges. I never could find any terminal
differences between the two bullets. So might as well use the 7mag with 120s and have a more pleasant rifle to shoot.

I really like my 7mm STW, but the 7 mag is a great choice. Under 300-400 yds, the difference in minimal in my opinion. Just boils down to a personal preference. Can't go wrong with either. The 7 RUM is also nice, but very small difference between it and a STW. My hunting buddy has both and gets better velocity out of the stw, but that could just be the barrels. Good luck on your choice.

Rod:

I am a big fan of the 7mm family of cartridges. I use the 7mm Remington Magnum because I have had my rifle for years. I think a muzzle velocity of 3000 fps is a good standard for a "longer" range hunting rifle. And I also think pushing a 175 grain .284 bullet to 3000 fps makes for an ultimate all around cartridge. The 7mm STW would be my choice if I were buying. Too me, owning a cartridge that I want experience with outweighs "practical" factors. After all, thats what being a gun-nut is all about...

Buliwyf

Vibra, I agree with you! Not enough difference to justify dumping a good accurate 7 REM. to get the STW!!

I have both and my STW hands down will get me 200fps to 300fps ranging from 150 to 175gr. T o me thats enough to chose the STW for anything over 300yrds and especially over 400. Accuracy is better than I am, I'm sure. I can still cover 3 shots with a dime. At 3200fps+ with a 175gr. partition its beats the 7mag. hands down. Having said that I mostly use the 7mag. or 7mm or my 356win. fws

Big Bore: What types of powder did you try in your 7mm STW? The first powder I tried in my Sendero was IMR 7828 and Nosler 140gr Partitions. Shooting 3 shot groups @100 yds, I can easily get 1/2-5/8 in groups, sometimes less. My MV is 3375 fps. I know it's not a lot more than a 7mmRM, but I just can get rid of it 'cause it's the most accurate factory rifle I have. I'm sorry to hear of your bad luck with your Sendero. I have owned 3 different 7mm RM's and I'll say they're easy to load for. All of the rifles shot sub MOA 5 shot groups with 65gr IMR 4350 and 140gr Nosler BT's. Velocities were 3220-3275 fps. Many other loads worked almost as well.

I hate barrels over 24 inches on a hunting rifle. I prefer 22 inch for standard cartridges.

That makes the choice easy for me. However, if one wants to fool with any cartridge that is OK with me and fun to do.
As I have looked at published reports of velocities of the two cartridges, I see very little advantage of the 7MM STW over my own chronographed velocities from the 7MM RM when pressures are similar.
My rifle will get 140 gr Sierra with 71 gr N205 as much as 3320 fps. Obviously that is a hot load but is ok in my rifle. I get 3250 from the same bullet with 70 gr N205.

With the 160 gr "old" Nosler or Speer and 69 gr N205 I get 3174, and with 68 gr N205 I get 3081.

With 175 gr bullets I suspect the STW may be better. I can only reach 2969 fps with the 175 Nosler and 66 gr N205. I haven't tried the new powders and there may be some that are better, but these loads suit me.
My rifle is a Rem 700 ADL I got in about 1962.

DON'T TRY THESE IN YOUR GUN until you work up carefully.

Synthetic stocks - I have heard from friends who own them that the factory syn stocks are junk. They are not stiff enough and also, suprisingly enough, are not stable in a wide shift of temperatures. The ones I know of are Savage and Remington. What are your experiences, guys?

Jerry

Jerry M,

There isn't much you can't do with that 175 gr. Nosler at 2969 fps. I'm not sure another 100 fps would gain you anything practical in the field. That's why I stick with the 7 Mag.

Joel Slate
Slate & Associates, LLC
www.slatesafaris.com

7mm Rem Mag Page www.slatesafaris.com/7mm.htm

While I don't personally have experience with the 7mm STW my best friend and hunting buddy does. He bought his Model 70 Classic Super Grade used with the intention of rebarreling to 300 H&H. However, it shot so well he kept it as is and has used it to take some really fine heads. I have been playing with the 7mm Ultra Mag and agree with those who say if you want more than the 7mm Remington jump to the Ultra. Yes, it is way overbore and is probably hell on barrels but so what? It also gives hellish velocities to 7mm bullets into the bargain. I have been shooting 150 grain Swift Sciroccos and Nosler Ballistic Tips into groups well under an inch at 100 with monotonous regularity using Retumbo powder. The rifle is a Remington Sendero and I have not yet hunted with it. Right now I view the whole affair as an exercise in "big and loud" and am having a great deal of fun with it. It might just be ideal as a long range 'cross canyon Mule Deer harvester. Time will tell. Good hunting!