Does any body know what were the original powders for these two rounds? IMR????

I appreciate that the 30-06 in particular will have gone through considerable change since it's introduction in 1906, but looking more at what was used in WWII and Korea, and also what powder was used for the 7.62 when the M14 was developed?

I don't know the very first powder for the 30-06, but I am fairly certain that the next powder IMR (Improved Military Rifle) was either 4831 or 4895, I can't recall which, but remember that buying tons of it surplus is where Bruce Hodgeon got his start

Looking at 'Cartridges of the World' listing of obsolete powders and their manufacturing dates with mention of military 30-06 use -
Hercules HiVel No.1 ,1908-1915
Du Pont Pyro Cal 30 DG [MR 20 ] 1909-1927

In the 1960s IMR 4895 and WC852 were used.

I read somewhere that 4895 was originaly made for the 30-06 military load.

Contract powders for the military varied slightly, but IMR 4895 would be close for the 30-06. The 308 used a ball powder, I'm not 100% but if I guessed win 760 would be it.

John

Over the years the 06 has been loaded with many different powders, most of which no longer exist. Toward the end, the powders used depended on the type of cartridge. For example, 4895 for tracer, 4198 for High Pressure Test. For the majority of Ball type cartridges it was 4895 or W852. Today, any 06 ammo needed is usually contracted out.

When the 7.62x51 was first developed in 1945, Frankford Arsenal tried several different powders. 3031, 4320, 4895, for example. Today, most are loaded with ball powder, usually something close to W846. Match type ammunition is usually loaded with a stick powder like 4895 because it gives better accuracy than ball powders.

Since military ammunition is loaded in very large lots, powder is blended in freightcar sized lots and the characteristics don't always match their civilian counterparts.

I don't know what the origional military loads for the .308 , but I believe the origional commercial loadings were done with the 1st ball powder , witch was designed to give the short case its desired 30,06 velocity,
W-748.
My model 70 featherweight .308 is from 52 or 53, And the 7.62 nato was adopted in I think 54.
748 is still a good powder for the .308.
I have 3 of them and it shoots real well in all, but IMR-4064 works best...tj3006

4831 was powder for 20MM cannon rounds. It is much to slow to use in M1 Garands; it can cause bent operating rods. Military 7.62 loads were W846 and IMR4475 according to COW.

The initial pressure and velocity testing for the T65 (7.62x51) was done with the stick powders mentioned above. Most of the surviving cartridges will be found loaded with 3031. By the early 50s Frankford had switched to ball powders.

The 308 Winchester was introduced in late 1952 and cartridges were loaded with their own ball powders. The 7.62x51 NATO was standardized in late 1954 and cartridges first appeared in 1955.

Be careful when using anything from COTW. Some of the stuff, including the specs on military ammo, is almost 50 years old.

Ray

quote:

Originally posted by airgun1:
I don't know the very first powder for the 30-06, but I am fairly certain that the next powder IMR (Improved Military Rifle) was either 4831 or 4895, I can't recall which, but remember that buying tons of it surplus is where Bruce Hodgeon got his start

Airgun,
I'll throw a vote in for 4895 as used in the 30-06. I think I read that somewhere years ago.
Hodgdon did get his start with bulk 4831, but I can't remember reading that it was used in the '06.

quote:

Originally posted by Remington720:
4831 was powder for 20MM cannon rounds.

Bingo! I had forgot about that.

Thanks Guys Was having some cycling trouble with a couple of ald semi Auto's and thought I should start by using approximately the right powder for their gass system rahter than by what gives the best velocities or lowest pressures from a bolt gun.

WC 846 (equivalent to Hodgdon BL-C2 and WW-748) was developed for the T-65/.308 Winchester. Many other powders, of course, have been used by military suppliers.

H4895 was one of the most common powders in the WW-II era for the .30-06 and is still often used for Garand match loads.

As has been mentioned, 4831 (originally an IMR, then classified as a Hodgdon powder due to Hodgdon buying most of it in surplus form) was not for a rifle at all, but rather the 20mm shell. Slower powders eventually became preferred for the 20mm and 4831 was replaced with other "suplus" rifle powders like WC-860 and WC-872 for 20mm use.

H or IMR4895 are my go to powders for my Garand and they work in .308's as well. During WWII IMR4895 and Ball C were the main powders for the 30-06. Both should also work well in other gas operated rifles.

4895 is what is recommended for autoloaders like the m1.

I do believe that the 308 was designed using IMR 4895.

The 30-06 goes back to 1906. Obviously the powders used pre WWI are gone.

IMR 4895 was developed around WWII. Millions of 30-06 ball and match 30-06 were loaded using this powder.

Ball powders came in the 50's and were used in both cartridges.

If you want the safe bet for use in a M1 and M1a, use IMR 4895/H4895/AA2495. These powders are all stick, and all very close in burn rate. All are totally appropriate for use.

My M1A typically prefers IMR4064 over 4895.