The Very First respondent posted the exact answer. It is here again, below.
Best regards,


[quote]Ray B
one of us
posted 17 May 2017 06:49 Hide Post
It depends on how close to the same point of impact is considered acceptable. I can shoot a rifle and adjust the scope so that it impacts a desired spot at given range. Another person shooting the rifle will print the shots to a particular spot- which may or may not be close to the desired location. Whether I can sight it in for someone else depends on how close the two points of impact are considered acceptable and how similar our shooting process is.[/quote

Is there or is there not a difference between acceptable Hunting accuracy and grouping accuracy?

I agree that sighting in a rifle from the bench and trying for MOA accuracy with a 3 shot group will vary greatly among shooters.

But, from experience, I have watched too many folks cleanly kill game with a rifle that another person had sighted in and I do not believe that I am the only one that has done that!

Is there or is there not a difference between acceptable Hunting accuracy and grouping accuracy? (There is.)

I agree that sighting in a rifle from the bench and trying for MOA accuracy with a 3 shot group will vary greatly among shooters. (OK. But that wasn't your original question.)

But, from experience, I have watched too many folks cleanly kill game with a rifle that another person had sighted in and I do not believe that I am the only one that has done that! (You are not the only one, I have as well, but that was not your original question. The discussion kind of Morphed into that. From reading all the above, I would guess that most folks think the chance of POI change is greater risk than not and folks shooting at anything would be well served by sighting in their own rifle.)
(My main point is shooter error is far and away more prevalent than rifle sighting error but one can be easily eliminated and one cannot.)
Good hunting to you Sir!

In my OP I did not clarify what I was trying to find out. I tried to clear up my mistake and did not really do a good enough job of it.

I appreciate everyone's comments, whether I agree with them or not.

I will likely regret entering back into this discussion but I dont understand what shooting groups has to do with this discussion.. The original post is not about shooting targets or groups it's about whether a rifle sighted in by one person will have the same point of impact for all. The simple answer is no. Take two shooters of identical skill and they can shoot two identical groups but at very different places on the target despite having an identical point of aim. Whether that's on an animal or paper is irrelevant as is the size of the group. The fact is that two shooters aiming at the exact same spot can have significantly different and consistent points of impact. I've seen it with my own eyes. With that I'm done!

From my OP:

quote:

If I remember correctly, Capstick stated that no one could sight a scoped rifle in, for another person to use. I know my own personal experiences with this subject, I am interested in what others have experienced.

I do not notice anything about

quote:

it's about whether a rifle sighted in by one person will have the same point of impact for all.

As I have tried to get across, I worded my original question improperly, but at no point did I say anything about the rifle having the same point of impact, but whether or not another hunter could shoot the rifle and kill game.

From the responses, it appears that other hunters have been able to sight in a rifle good enough, that another person, someone that has/had never used that rifle, was able to successfully use it to kill game.

I understand that from the bench things are different, but I have my doubts about hunters using a properly sighted in rifle that they had never shot, not being able to make a killing shot on game with that rifle at normal hunting ranges.

Actually nothing would be different from the bench...that's the point you seem to be missing!

We will simply have to agree to disagree.

You have had your experiences and I have had mine, my latest were 3 hogs of varying sizes, shot by two different individuals at ranges varying from 80 to 130 yards, all one shot kills, all made with my Mark V .300 Weatherby, neither hunter had shot that rifle, prior to shooting at the pigs.

I instructed them where to hold on the animals bodies and on all three animals and the hits were within two inches or less of where I told them to aim.

I am wondering why such results are not good enough?

Thanks and I'll answer.
Yes I have experienced changing POI from different people on same same gun. Many times and on many types of guns and sighting systems. My brother, the owner of many tack drivers were always low and left when I shot them. Enough to miss a prairie dog but hit a deer.
I have also used my Dad's 32 Win Special 94 to shoot something. Of course he shot at a rock across the creek and I did too and we both hit it plus he never sighted it in, just shot it so...
My son in law shot a couple of deer with the rifle I sighted in for him but then I found out he had changed ammo after I sighted it in and never re-sighted it. Enough examples to see the variance problem? I still think your first poster had the best answer.
Happy Hunting to you Sir

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:
We will simply have to agree to disagree.

You have had your experiences and I have had mine, my latest were 3 hogs of varying sizes, shot by two different individuals at ranges varying from 80 to 130 yards, all one shot kills, all made with my Mark V .300 Weatherby, neither hunter had shot that rifle, prior to shooting at the pigs.

I instructed them where to hold on the animals bodies and on all three animals and the hits were within two inches or less of where I told them to aim.

I am wondering why such results are not good enough?

In the past two days we've killed three gators and three hogs between four people all using the same rifle. I've never said it can't work just that doesn't always work and when it doesn't results can be disasterous!You seem to be missing the point...I've not said it never works. I've not said it often doesn't work. I've said sometimes it doesn't work and sometimes it doesnt. A quick zero check is all it takes to confirm. There are few absolutes with rifles.... POI between shooters is most definitely not absolute.

quote:

In the past two days we've killed three gators and three hogs between four people all using the same rifle. I've never said it can't work just that doesn't always work

Then why are we arguing?????

At NO POINT have I said it was GUARANTEED to work EVERYTIME, but it DOES WORK enough times for people, INCLUDING you to keep on trying it/doing it!!!!!!

As I've tried to explain a dozen times, I've never said it doesn't often work...I've said it doesnt always work. It doesnt work often enough to be concerning when shooting animals. I only try it when zero has been confirmed for each shooter.

One last time, you work with what you have experienced.

I do the exact same thing. Difference between us is that I will keep doing what has worked, as long as it works!

I have this feeling, could be wrong, but my guess is you do exactly the same thing.

In fact I thing I am safe in stating that the majority of us do that. If something works, why change?????

I do not believe that I have had the EXACT same experiences while hunting, either my own hunting or guiding someone, that you have had.

But my experiences do not cancel yours, nor yours mine.

The point still remains, one person can zero a rifle and other people, under normal hunting conditions can and do kill game with that same rifle if they merely listen to what the person that sighted in the rifle tells them concerning where to aim at on the body of the animal being hunted.

Provided a scope is parallax free the issue is grip and controlling recoil. A good example would be to shoot off a butterfly bag. Face it at the target. The angle it slightly to one side. Still aim on amd shoot. Due to the different recoil path impact will differ. The rifle moves whilst the bullet is travelling down the barrel and the the position of the muzzle when the bullet exits it will not be the same. This is something I have observed with rifles but generally it is not a big issue with more experienced shooters.

Excuses are good. I zeroed all Dad's rifles for everyone in the family. Guess I should tell my youngest brother that large whitetail he missed behind Dad's place - from a distance of 35 yds - was my fault.

Wasn't buck fever, that's for sure. Even though he could not remember where he had held. Or if he had been on the deer. It wasn't his lack of preseason practice, either. Nope.

IME, over half the folks around my zipcodes that I've watched at the range over decades cannot reliably zero a rifle. Many think the boresighting done at the local Dick's constitutes an acceptable zero. Partly, they know they will flinch in the event they "bench" their rifle.
These people would be far better off having someone else - like CHC, myself, or probably any of you - zero it for them. That is a reality, however sad.

One exceptional case involved a guy who annually missed his deer. For almost ten years. I just figured he couldn't shoot. He was a friend of my Dad's. One day he showed up with the rifle in hand. I asked to look at it b/c I could see the problem from several feet away. His Win 94 rear iron was bent approx 10 degrees so the elevator was nearly lost. I straightened and "zeroed" it. Off he went, and he managed to take a whitetail.

Were I to zero a rifle owned by a member of this forum the real outcome would be your loss of confidence. So you would all be completely "right" to check the result. But don't for one second think you are representative of the average hunter anywhere in the US.