the question is, are the 30 cal magnums as versatile as the good old 06? everybody should have an 06, but if they have a 30 mag of some sort, do they still?

Red

It may be.
GWB

The advantage of the .300 Mags over the .30-06 can be translated into range.....but the .30-06 is already a 500 yard capable cartridge and there are darn few shooters that can make use of the extra range of the .300 Magnums.

The extra power is just not needed as there's no such thing as "deader"

quote:

Originally posted by Dago Red:
the question is, are the 30 cal magnums as versatile as the good old 06? everybody should have an 06, but if they have a 30 mag of some sort, do they still?

Red

In the opinion of others, about the best "magnum" not counting the newer breed of shorty's, is the standard .300 WM. The case capacity lends it to being downloaded to 06' levels much more efficiently, while at the same time allows the newer slower powders to crank up some very judicious loads.

I say others in the above statement as I have read this for years. Personally I have loaded for the Win, and also the RUM, and Weatherby. Of the three, I have to say that the Win was much more enjoyable than the latter. That said I was working with the same bullet weights in all three of 180 - 200grs. With the latter of the three, this is about the bottom end of efficiency for the case capacities, where the WM is just settling in.

The great thing about an '06 is the case can handle powders and bullets up to 200grs pretty well for most applications. While it is also not too big to drop the loads down to almost gallery levels with the proper powder.

Just a couple of observations....

One of the supposed advantages of the 06 is the general avaiability of ammo. Have been discussing with a buddy ammo availabe un RSA and I know about Small Town USA. 06 wins hands down

SSR

Good results are always also a question of weight of the gun to recoil ratio from what you shoot to make a good shot placement: For a hunting gun I would say the .30-06 is the most versatile. If You plan to shoot longer ranges - OK, think about the .300 Win Mag, but then give it some extra weight to have a calm stick in your hand - then you end with a much heavier sniper combo...

So: all about the question: what do You want to do with it???

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:
The advantage of the .300 Mags over the .30-06 can be translated into range.....but the .30-06 is already a 500 yard capable cartridge and there are darn few shooters that can make use of the extra range of the .300 Magnums.

The extra power is just not needed as there's no such thing as "deader"

What majical barrier stops the 30-06 at 500 yards. I've used the 30-06 out to 870 yards and it worked fine. Never had one stop at 500 yards. Carlos Hathcock made many kills with the 30-06 2 to 3 times the 500 yard mark

I've owned and hunted with a 300wm for just shy of 20years, for 14yrs is was my only big game rifle. My advice is that with bullets and powder technology being what it is, a guy could use a 30-06 and even a .308 for what we were using 300wm's for 15yrs ago.

The bullets are lighter, slicker, and tougher, the powders faster at equal pressures, the rifles and optics can be set up for whatever aplication you could possibly use them for.

My 300wm had been excellent, I've never had a good reason to compain about it, but I have been thinking seriously of swapping it for a 30-06 or .280, and I've surprised myself by that line of thinking.

That said, there are times where there is no substitute for big bullets moving at full speed.

The 30-06 is more versatile than the 300 mag.

Oh brother, not one of these threads again.

quote:

Originally posted by Rub Line:
Oh brother, not one of these threads again.

Actually there are four.

quote:

Originally posted by jwp475:

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:
The advantage of the .300 Mags over the .30-06 can be translated into range.....but the .30-06 is already a 500 yard capable cartridge and there are darn few shooters that can make use of the extra range of the .300 Magnums.

The extra power is just not needed as there's no such thing as "deader"

What majical barrier stops the 30-06 at 500 yards. I've used the 30-06 out to 870 yards and it worked fine. Never had one stop at 500 yards. Carlos Hathcock made many kills with the 30-06 2 to 3 times the 500 yard mark

Seems to me that you just made vapo's point for him and I doubt that was your intention!

With cartridges as with race cars, there is no substitute for cubic inches. That said, I've never felt undergunned with an -06 in my hand.

quote:

Originally posted by scubapro:
Good results are always also a question of weight of the gun to recoil ratio from what you shoot to make a good shot placement: For a hunting gun I would say the .30-06 is the most versatile.

Here is a thinking hunter.

quote:

Originally posted by Jim C. <><:
With cartridges as with race cars, there is no substitute for cubic inches. That said, I've never felt undergunned with an -06 in my hand.

I subscribe to the same principle in engines (a bbf and bbc in two hotrods, respectively), or at least I did before the gas prices.....(now I'm thinking next hotrod is going to have a 289 or maybe even one of these new fangled EFI engines that gets 30 MPG )

Thanks for the replies guys, I wasn't trying to rehash a topic or cause a debate. I was just thinking the other day about how few guns I have, and the two 30's seemed redundant to me and I thought one day I might have to use one of them to build something else. I didn't intentionally get two 30's, the 06 I bought for my wife (then girlfriend)and turned out a total flop (no desire at all to shoot, funny the hobbies we have that they show interest in until they get married )

I have the 308 norma, which of course kills the easy ammo availability thing, but there are no flies on it either. It's very hard on a guy when he hasn't enough time to use what he has but has enough time to daydream.

Red

If you have a .300 Mag you can load it like a 30-30-.308-30-06 or anything else .308 caliber, as well as a .300 Mag. If you have anything less you can never load it like a Mag. If you think the 30-06 is more versitile than a .300 Mag of any kind, I have a bridge in Arizona to sell you cheap. Good shooting.

As is often quoted, and I believe to be true, the 30/06 is all that is needed.

That's just crazy talk. You can reduce loads in 300x to 30-06. You cannot push 30-06 to 300x max velocity. so how could the 06 be more versitile?

quote:

Originally posted by jwp475:

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:
The advantage of the .300 Mags over the .30-06 can be translated into range.....but the .30-06 is already a 500 yard capable cartridge and there are darn few shooters that can make use of the extra range of the .300 Magnums.

The extra power is just not needed as there's no such thing as "deader"

What majical barrier stops the 30-06 at 500 yards. I've used the 30-06 out to 870 yards and it worked fine. Never had one stop at 500 yards. Carlos Hathcock made many kills with the 30-06 2 to 3 times the 500 yard mark

Knowing Vapo I'm sure it has something to do with energy.

As I have said else where, I don't personally like the 30-06, don't have one, don't want one.

Did use a 300 Win Mag for years then went up to a 300 Weatherby.

That is My Personal feelings for My Personal Use.

If someone asks me, I will recommend the 30-06 any day of the week over anything else.

If a person needs(?) or wants something bigger than the '06, get a 375 H&H.

For the average hunter, those two guns will take care of anything and everything they will ever run into on this planet.

An elk at 400 yards could not tell you if he was killed with an '06 or any of the 30 mags with a properly placed shot.

quote:

Originally posted by Dago Red:


I didn't intentionally get two 30's, the 06 I bought for my wife (then girlfriend)and turned out a total flop (no desire at all to shoot, funny the hobbies we have that they show interest in until they get married )

I have the opposite problem. My wife got INTO hunting after we got married and acquired some hunting dogs. Wing shooting at first - A good excuse to buy a couple more SxS shotguns.

Then it was big game after, actually during, her first trip to Africa.

Now it costs me twice as much to travle and hunt! Guess that's not all bad.

The '06 is one of my favorite cartridges. I guess I just fall into the trap of thinking I need more, but its never let me down yet when I take it afield.

So the 300 RUM and 300 WSM just sit around gathering dust.

I did, almost, have a dog in this fight! But not quite!

I looked at buying a 300 Winchester Magnum. Until I realised that they don't handle bullets over 180 grains very well!

So at that point I realised that actually my 280 Remington with 175 grain bullet would do just as good!

And my 8X60S actually handle 195 grain bullets better! Velocity? It's all for under 100 yards so 2,500fps is good enough.

So actually unless that 30 calibre magnum can handle heavier bullets above 180 grains I don't think it offers any benefit at up to 100 yards over a standard 30-06.

If you own an 06 you probably don't need a 300 WM. If you own a 300, you definely don't need an 06. One or more of each is still the best way to go. My favorite would be the 06 because I have 2 and don't want to spend the money on a 300.

quote:

Originally posted by enfieldspares:
I looked at buying a 300 Winchester Magnum. Until I realised that they don't handle bullets over 180 grains very well!

So at that point I realised that actually my 280 Remington with 175 grain bullet would do just as good!

I don't have much experience with the 300 magnums, but that they don't do well with heavy bullets is something I have never heard before. Do you have a bad experience with that combo, or don't like published velocities with heavies, or what? To me, heavy bullets are the best reason for a 300 Win mag or H&H. Of course, I don't shoot many heavy bullets, and I have 4 30-06's, and never installed the 300 Win barrel I have.

The problem is of length of the cartridge and overall length of the action they are used in.

Because the 300 Win Mag is so long to work in most actions the bullet has to be seated well in to the case.

That's OK with up to 180 grains but on heavier bullets the parallel sided part is too far back.

So the very short neck has nothing to grip on other that the tapered, ogive, part of these heavier bullets.

sadly the very best 30 calibre magnum was the 308 Norma Magnum. But Winchester's abomination the 300 Win Mag killed it off.

So when I looked at a 300 Win Mag I realised as did many others that the design was just "all wrong" for use with longer and heavier bullets than 180 grains.

So it isn't that the cartridge isn't accurate. It is. Or that it can't handle the pressure of give the velocity.

It's good enough for many military forces to use it in the Accuracy International rifle as a sniper weapon.

Just that with heavier bullets in standard actions you can't seat those heavier bullets far enough out so that the sides of the neck actually grips a parallel part of the bullet!

The 8mm Rem Mag has similar problems except that most American makers seem to have designed their 8mm bullets with shorter than normal front ogives and a longer parallel part to work in the cartridge.

European 8mm bullets - the traditional 196 grain spitzer - won't work in 8mm Rem Mag. Again the ogive comes too far back.

I've used the 30-06, 300 Win Mag., 300 H&H, 300 Weatherby and 300 Ultra Mag. There is no doubt that all the 30 magnums are more versatile than the 30-06.

I seldom shoot past 250 yards so I can't see any difference in performance between to 30-06 and 30 Magnums. 30-06 components are a lot easier to find and the 30-06, for my use is more efficent to reload.

I also really love the 300 H&H and there is something very satisfying about using an old pre-64 model 70 in 30-06 or 300 H&H to hunt with.

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:
If a person needs(?) or wants something bigger than the '06, get a 375 H&H.

I like that viewpoint.

Interesting that all who tout greater "versatility" in the 300WM do so on the basis of it being better at long ranges. However, if range were the only issue then the original question would have been "which is the better long range cartridge?"

In terms of rifle and ammo availability the 06 is clearly more versatile. Ask a generic question and you either get a generic answer, or a bunch of people arguing completely different points.

So, Dago Red, what did you really mean by versatility? I'm not sure what it is you are really looking for...

I've had several 300WM. Every one was persnickity. Ok if you handload and if you've got time and patience, but a royal pain if you don't.

.30-06, most rifles in that calibre, in my experience, are a bit less tempermental. Shot the Nat'l match course (out to 600 yards) with a M70 in .30-06 for years, so is it capaple? Yes. Is a magnum flatter, yes. Which is more accurate? I'd bet on the '06.

That said, I recently acquired a .300WSM and based on merely 5 animals, and no shots past 200 yards, I love it.

Each to his own. Hunt with what you like. If a .30 calibre is adequate, a .30-06 will do it. If you'd rather shoot a magnum, have at it. IMHO