Both for my .358 Winchester and my .35 Whelen.

With my Winnie, I'll be hunting with a 220-grain Speer Hot-Cor seated over 50 grains of W-748. I'll probably only hunt whitetails this year, but if I should decide to go back on an elk hunt, I would not hesitate to use the exact same bullet and load. I just got back from the range and this load chroned 2440 out of my 19-inch Shaw-barreled M-600 Remington. Temp was a MUGGY 90-degrees. Back in The winter, this same load gave me 2375 on a 45-degree day, and an even 2400 on a 65-degree day.

I hunted with this rifle last year with the same bullet over 52 grains of 748, however, when the temp went up, I started getting very clear extractor marks on the rim, so I backed off a couple of grains and they went away.

With my Whelen, I'll be hunting with a 250-grain Speer Hot-Cor Spitzer over 58 grains of Re. 15. This load gives me 2500 fps, even, out of my 25" barrel. I've got her zeroed at 200 yards, which causes the bullet to print just shy of three inches high at 100. I dropped this load down a grain from 59 grains of Re. 15 because, even though the old books state that the max load for Re. 15 and this bullet weight is 59.5 grains, Alliant's newest book has lowered the max to 54 grains, and 2284 fps. I was getting absolutely zero pressure signs at 59 grains, and a velocity was 150 fps slower than what Quick Load said I should be getting (probably because my rifle has a huge amount of freebore), but I decided that if 59 grains was safe, then 58 grains is safer, and still plenty of umph to kill anything than needs killin'. Besides, at 200 yards the one grain less made no difference in the rifle's zero -- printing the group within an inch of the 59-grain group.

I, too, wonder at the reduction from 59.5 grains to 54 grains of RL15 in the .35 Whelen. They listed the 59.5 grain load at a modest 48XXX psi.
In my Remington 700 Classic, 59.5 grains of RL15 under a 250 grain Nosler Partition yields 2586 fps. Accuracy is 1.1", there are no pressure signs, and cases last and last and last.
With a 250 grain Swift A-Frame, I topped out at 58.4 grains of RL15 for 2536 fps as max. Got a slight ejector mark on the case at 58.8 grains so dropped the load down an arbitrary .4 grains. The ejector marks disappeared and the load shot to the same place as the 250 grain Nosler Partition at 100 yards.

Powder formulas do/may change over the years. I cannot load H4831 to the same weights in my 7mm Rem Mag and 300 H&H as I did 30 years ago. Had to back off the powder charges.

Well, I emailed Alliant with the exact question. Below is their response:

"Since Speer manual #12, published in 1994, the load for the 35 Whelen has been 50 – 54 grains of Reloder-15 powder. It was at that time that Speer went completely to Piezoelectric transducer testing for pressures on cases. It was a much more accurate and scientific method of testing. This testing is the industry standard today. Another factor that enters the realm of the situation is that Alliant used to only shoot five shot strings in their testing. Today, Alliant is now performing testing the same as Speer, ten shot strings, a much more accurate system to use.
Between these two factors, use the Speer data which Alliant now uses also."

For many, many years folks shot 59, 60, and even more grains of Re. 15 in their Whelens with 250-grain bullets without incident. Suddenly, with the stroke of a printing press, those folks are touching off small nukes that threaten to end civilization as we know it! I have a problem understanding why.

BTW, Quick Load says my 58-grain load is developing 63,000 psi. Now, if my custom Model 70 were a .338-06 instead of a .35 Whelen, then that would be within SAMMI max pressure allowances (65,000). But, alas, I chose to go with the Whelen, which saddles me with a max of 58,000 psi in almost the exact same cartridge!

If anyone is deer hunting in the South on opening day next fall, and you see a brilliant flash of light and a mushroom cloud billowing from an area that looks to be just south of Athens, Ga as ground zero, you'll know that I saw a nice buck and decided to take him with my Whelen.

God help us all!

So afraid of litigation, they castrate the rounds capability. You know what you're doing so fuck em. The chickenshit hippies are ruining the world for those with balls

jeez Boet,,, you might wanna call it like you see it next time.

Damn, GAHUNTER, that is a funny post.

I broke out laughing so hard, my dog jumped up into my lap to see what was so funny!

If belly laughing is good for your health as they say, I just added 2 years to my life span. Thanks.

Here's an interesting situation that came up with 59/RL15 and 250 Grain Partitions.

This load was worked up in a custom 98 Mauser with a 24" Douglass Barrel. Over our chronograph, we were getting right at 2700fps, with complete pass through's on buffalo in Kansas. We worked the loads up in December, temperatures were in the 60's then. Pressure signs were not an issue. The rifle was then sent out for custom restocking, and it was gone for about a year. We got it back a little while ago, and went to the range to check the zero, etc. First round blew the primer, then the 2nd and a couple more, we quit. Really surprised, as we expected the same performance as when it left for stocking. It's now over 100', we live in Arizona. So we are going to stick a box in the refrigerator, carry the ammo to the range in an ice chest, and try again. Just to see if this stuff is that temperature sensitive????? These loads are not even as hot as some of the loads mentioned here. Also, in another Whelen, I have been using IMR4064 with 225's and 250's since the middle 1970's, same load now, and as far as I can see nothing has changed good or bad. Groups are under.75 and always have been with either bullet weight.

Jerry

Pretty much sticking with Varget for the 250's in mine for the reasons JE just mentioned.

GAHunter, I down't own a 35 Whelen but I do own and reload for my 358 Win. I've had good results using 220 grain Speer Hot-Cor's and 225 grain Nosler Partitions. I use Ramshot TAC with both and have been quite pleased with the accuracy and the way TAC meters through my powder measures. I have a lb. of RE 15 and might check it out as well. I do know that Varget, one of my favorite powders, was only a bit less accurate than the TAC. With a little bit of time and effort in load development, all three powders would probably get very acceptable accuracy results.

W-748 is the best powder I've found for producing accuracy and velocity in my .358 Winchester. I shoot both 220-grain Speers, and 225-grain Sierra Game Kings. From all the testimony I've read, there is no reason to shoot "premium" bullets, as the cartridge is designed to operate and penetrate with standard cup-and-core bullets.

The Speer manual lists 52 grains as the max load, however that is too hot in my rifle, and I had to back off to 50 grains. Actual winter-time velocities are hovering right around 2400 fps(a little shy of that if cold), which isn't bad for a 19-inch barrel. I tried TAC, but in order to achieve 2400 fps, I get ejector marks on my case head on every shot, so I went back to 748.

I just rigged up a Browning BLR in 358 Win for Whitetail hunting this year. Love that fat little cartridge :-)

Been loading 59 and even 60 grs in my 35 Whelens depending on the gun, since RL 15 hit the market..I'm still in one piece. My present HAUGH Mauser gets me just shy of 2600 FPS with a 250 gr. Nosler and 59. grs. of RL-15 and with several other powders..cases last many reloads..

RL-17 is right beside RL-15 and proving to be a bit better all around on both accuracy and velocity..Time will tell. Working with the 310 gr. Woodleigh now with RL-17 and its accurate and my riflel stablilizes that long bullet..I won't mention the loads as yet but its amazing..

quote:

Working with the 310 gr. Woodleigh now with RL-17 and its accurate and my riflel stablilizes that long bullet..I won't mention the loads as yet but its amazing..

Keep us posted on that, will you Ray?

Interested as well, I'm also curious as to what twist your barrel has. My Whelen has a 1-14 twist and I suspect it would be marginal with that length bullet.

Just worked up a load for my 358 Win. Rifle is an Interarms MkX long action with a Pac-Nor 22" #3 barrel. The load I'll deer hunt with (so far) is 47.5 gr of IMR4064 pushing a Hornady 200 gr Interlock at 2475 fps. Group size @ 100 yards was (3-shots) 5/8".
I have some Sierra 225's I'm wanting to try next. Just in case...

I'm really still confused on this. I've seen tests of a 9.3x62 and 286 gr Nosler Partitions loaded to 2510 fps with RL15. I know the 9.3x62 has slightly great capacity but what the hey?
My guess is Alliant decided to back off to a lawyer load in deference to all the old .35 Whelens from the 1920's and 1930's.
Also, my understanding is that RL15 is supposedly NOT temperature sensitive and is used by the military because of this.
When I lived in Phoenix (belonged to the Rio Salado Gun Club)it was not unusual for loads to clock 50 to 60 fps faster in the early summer than in the bitter 55 degree winter weather. I say early summer as there was no way I was going to the range in 118 degree weather.

Spot on, its frivoulous law suits that have the big boys scared to death...

Mentioning the 9.3x62, I loaded 60 gr. of RL-15 and the 286 gr. Nosler and that seemed to be my gun absolute max..then I laid it out on the hood of my pickup on our old ranch near LaJitas, Texas south of Alpine Texas for an hour and let it cook, then shot a box of ammo in it..the temp 121...and no shade..It faired wonderfully, twas max for sure but no indications over and above when I shot it in 105 in the Selous.

I did about the same with a 300 Wby and 300 Win. and in both cases got extractor marks that I didn't get under normal situations. dropped two grains and problem solved in that hot country..What does this prove? I don't know, probably not a hell of a lot.