I was in the local Wally today and they have three Winchester M70's in there. 270 WSM, 7mm WSM and 300 WSM. I suddenly got this urge to buy all of them and put them away. Do you guys think they will make a good investment or will they just stagnate? I don't need them for shooters because I have weapons that duplicate their performance. I have never been a Winchester fan and out of the 29 firearms I own, I shoot everyone of them at least occasionally. I don't know if I would be able to put a weapon away and not shoot it.

Let me look into my crystal ball.....lets see here..... yup here it is......the year is 2023

OMG.....Predident Chelsea Clinton has just outlawed the last of the legally owned repeating firearms in private control.

In an interview with news reporters she said that she told her Mother (Predident Hillary Clinton) when she outlawed handguns and rifles in 2010 that she should have gotten the shotguns as well.

The only firearms currently legal in the US is now flintlocks and then only with a single barrel.

All repeating rifles were destroyed in 2011 by executive order. No reimbursement was made for their value as the cost was deemed exhorbitant.

When Billy was prez I stopped buying guns from a store. Only from citizens and no paper work. I guess since GW has been elected I've become a little more lax and have bought a couple of guns in Black River Falls. Maybe I should get back to my original stealth mode , but I've got enough in a "clandestine" manner that I will never be unarmed. Besides, I think an NRA membership is going to put you on the radar screen anyway.

I went into Sportsmans Warehouse today and as far as Model 70s, I saw eight rifles in WSSM calibers and one rifle in 30.06 and that is it. I guess those WSSMs aren't doing too well if Model 70s won't sell.

The current prices are nothing but sodomy. Who knows wether these rifles will increase in value. If the M70 is ever put back into production again and the quality is back up,its certainly not going to help the 1000 dollar wonders being sold now. The poorly finished ones today are going for what the common caliber pre wars were selling for.

I saw a rack full of M70's on saturday in billings montana. The price was $999.00. Damn near double the price they were asking in February.

quote:

Originally posted by Rich Cale:Besides, I think an NRA membership is going to put you on the radar screen anyway.

In that case I'm really screwed because I've been a life member since about 1985...

quote:

Originally posted by sledder:
The current prices are nothing but sodomy.

<snip>

Sodomy... for those willing to bend over for it....

I couldn't talk myself into a stainless steel classic for $600 before they had trouble
or before hearing many stories about non concentric or grossly out of true actions.

Some of the milder stories on these forums made the various "problems" with Remingtons seem like getting mismatched silverware at a 4-star resturant...



AllanD

sledder,
Where in Billings? And what models and calibers did they have? Most places just have Coyotes left (uh, not to mention the junk that WalMart sells). I LIKE Model 70 Classics and have had better luck with them than with 700's. And I prefer the M70 Classic design for a hunting rifle.

I have noticed that the prices are going up myself. I do not know if that means that they will increase in value in the future or not. I do know that if I did not want to pay $600 for one before I sure don't want to pay more now.

quote:

Originally posted by sledder:
The current prices are nothing but sodomy. Who knows wether these rifles will increase in value. If the M70 is ever put back into production again and the quality is back up,its certainly not going to help the 1000 dollar wonders being sold now. The poorly finished ones today are going for what the common caliber pre wars were selling for.

I saw a rack full of M70's on saturday in billings montana. The price was $999.00. Damn near double the price they were asking in February.

Sledder nailed it pretty good. If, and I did say IF, the model 70 is ever made again, it
will be a better rifle.

The sodomic prices seen now is asking for disaster. For roughtly a grand, why not buy a
rifle that is better for the money? A Kimber
Montana or even a Sako?

Personally, I'd look for a quality custom to
buy at less than half the cost of having it built.

I must admit though, I was not, nor am I now,
a Winchester model 70 fan. I just don't like them.

But the real answer to the question can easily be seen. Compare the current prices of the pre-64 rifles to the prices of the crappy current
models. Yes, prices fell. There are many pre-64s selling for $600.00. Although you do have to look for them.

On a related question, what exactly is the difference between a Winchester Model 54 and a pre-64 model 70?

AllanD

Short answer would be NO

If you like, need, or want one by all means buy it. If you are thinking investment then go with a good growth stock mutual fund. Certain antiques aside, firearms generally suck as an investment when compared to many alternatives.

The day I heard the bad news I went to the Sportsmans Warehouse and picked up a FWT 6.5X55 Classic for $600. After looking the thing over for about a month I realized why they went out of business. The build quality was terrible. I stuck it on GB for what I paid for it. The final bid came in at $870.00! I don't see how you could get hurt unless someone starts making them again in which case you may take a Royal screwing

Terry

Depends. I'm morally certain the M70 will be produced again, in some form or name - it's just "USRAC" that won't be licensing the Winchester name from Olin. When they do, I suspect they won't be retail ~$850, discount ~$600 they were, however. Street price $1,000(?) maybe?

On that assumption, after the announcement, I did buy a nice SS/wood (very nice wood) 30-06, with a very, very smooth action. It's my "Go anywhere in the world in any weather and shoot something medium" rifle. (The wood will go onto another M70 with less good wood, FWIW, and the barreled action will get a McMillan.)

I think it's a fine rifle. They put out some dogs - and I have a badly inletted M70 stock to prove it - but some of them are very nice and worth searching for. I suspect we'll wish we'd bought more for $800. (Hey, I've been here before. I was one of those guys in 1966 who were waiting for the used pre-64s to come down from the ridiculous price of $180!)

Jaywalker

quote:

Originally posted by JBD:
If you are thinking investment then go with a good growth stock mutual fund.

I have those type of investments, but they are not nearly as much fun to have around. I read today that some Smith & Wesson executives toured the Winchester plant. I don't know if that means anything though.

quote:

Originally posted by sledder:
The current prices are nothing but sodomy. Who knows wether these rifles will increase in value. If the M70 is ever put back into production again and the quality is back up,its certainly not going to help the 1000 dollar wonders being sold now. The poorly finished ones today are going for what the common caliber pre wars were selling for.

I saw a rack full of M70's on saturday in billings montana. The price was $999.00. Damn near double the price they were asking in February.

For that price you should be able to get a real rifle.

quote:

Originally posted by cobra:

quote:

Originally posted by sledder:
The current prices are nothing but sodomy. Who knows wether these rifles will increase in value. If the M70 is ever put back into production again and the quality is back up,its certainly not going to help the 1000 dollar wonders being sold now. The poorly finished ones today are going for what the common caliber pre wars were selling for.

I saw a rack full of M70's on saturday in billings montana. The price was $999.00. Damn near double the price they were asking in February.

For that price you should be able to get a real rifle.

I thought that's what I said?

A guy at the range the other day had a 1983 production Model 70 in 30/06, that he was shooting for one last time...

Said he bought it off a relative that bought it new and then only shot it a few times and thought it kicked too much... this guy got it cheap supposedly, and said it kicked too much for him...

He was looking to get $500.00 for it...

Looking it over, it did appear to have little use as was stated... instead of getting the " grandma only drove it to Church on Sunday' schpeel....

I already have 3 Model 70s in 30/06 but it was sure hard to pass it up anyway....

Wichester's website still doesn't say a darn thing about being sold or closing their plant... so they must have something in mind... they are peddling the same calibers and catalog still on their website.. and we are suppose to be getting real close now to their closing date....

They sure are beautiful rifles in my book....

cheers
seafire

Buy what you like. Those rifles may appreciate in value, but they also may not. Even if they do appreciate, how much will they apreciate? If you want it, buy it.

IMO, you could spend your money on something else.

The rifles mudstud,were at scheels in billings. They had probably 20 rifles if not more. I was only interested in the lefties they had. They had a 7mag in lefty and a 300wsm and 06 in lefty. All classics and a few fwt's. I glanced at the rifles in right hand and they had a mix of wsm's and standard calibers. The price was actually like $999.97. No tax in montana.
Nobody was even looking at the winchesters other then me and the place was packed.


If billings montana isn't too far for you,give Shiptons a call and see what they can get for M70's. Scheels is seldom very competitive on prices. But shiptons is usually more inline with reality.

From what I can see the Lefties in the short mags are selling for about the same price as they were before Win made the announcement to stop production. All the others have increased. The ones that have absolutely sky rocketed have been the large bore's such as the 375's and up. Just today I turned down a cash offer of $1,500 for a NIB stainless 375 H&H. Who knows when the madness will stop

sledder,
Yeah, you're right about Shipton's and about Scheels both! Scheels will rip you off in a heart beat. Their corporate philosophy is apparently tag them at exorbitant prices and if nobody buys it, we can always mark it down later! Actually, what prices you quoted at Scheels in Billings sounds just the same as the Scheels here where I live (altho I work in Montana). Actually there is another small shop here that's been selling a LOT of Model 70's and at quite competitive prices. WSM's are nonexistent here, but standard calibers and some WSSM's are available.

The only place in billings that is worse then scheels,is big bear. What a waste of fucking space.

The only scheels I've seen that had any occasional good deals,was in rapid city.And the deals were on remingtons.

The salesman at scheels in billings,was spewing "its an investment" line of bullshit on anybody that would listen to him about M70's. He didn't want to comment on their mark up.


I talked to a guy with an ffl and he claims the wholesale prices really haven't increased that much on M70's that are available. Its basically the retailers doing all the price gouging.

I was looking at a left handed 06 on gunsamerica that was listed at $625. Then I checked to see if it was available after winchesters announcement. It was up to $875 I believe.

Nah, forget them Winnys. Buy yourself the deluxe version of "the riflemans rifle", buy a Kimber.

quote:

Originally posted by cobrad:
Nah, forget them Winnys. Buy yourself the deluxe version of "the riflemans rifle", buy a Kimber.

While the Kimber is a fine rifle, for those of you who may not be aware, the Kimber is not any kind of a "version" of "the rifleman's rifle", the Model 70. The bolt on a Kimber resembles a Model 70, but that's about as far as any resemblance goes.

quote:

Originally posted by Rich Cale:
I was in the local Wally today and they have three Winchester M70's in there. 270 WSM, 7mm WSM and 300 WSM. I suddenly got this urge to buy all of them and put them away. Do you guys think they will make a good investment or will they just stagnate? I don't need them for shooters because I have weapons that duplicate their performance. I have never been a Winchester fan and out of the 29 firearms I own, I shoot everyone of them at least occasionally. I don't know if I would be able to put a weapon away and not shoot it.

My opinion - guns are not really a good investment. Over the long term, stocks are better. They are fairly liquid, but more effort is required to sell them and make money on them. I do not believe that there are very many guns out there that can match the stock market or the real estate markets in terms of rate of return or appreciation. Of course, there are anomolies, but the rank and file gun owner will never make any significant money on his guns. (key word is "significant", if you a trader, gun show junkie and live/die making $10 per gun deal, good luck as I don't see that as "significant").

With that said, guns are more fun to own. The current temporary blip in M70 prices will calm down, just like Beany Babies or Cabbage Patch Dolls.

As to Winchester - it will be resurrected and the Model 70 will live again.

My opinion is that the short magnum cartridges will die a slow death - they are just not needed and not as fully embraces as the other, older lookalikes. I think the .260, 6mm, 7mm Express, 8mm mag, .303 and others are fine cartridges, but they will not overtake the big boys.

I fully understand that many of you guys will disagree with me, but that is my opinion. I do not look down on anyone that feels otherwise and makes a living doing this.

Anyway, buy what you will shoot and what you will like to own.