Hello,
I have a nice Ruger 77 in the 375 Ruger chambering. The rifle has great looking open sights, but I really have to push my face into the stock to get them aligned with my eye. I use a scope with medium height rings and when shouldered my eye lines right up with it.
So my observation is that the stocks comb height is setup for scopes, which is great because I use scopes. However I could not effectively use the open sights as a backup because the comb is too high. I see the wisdom in backup sights but I think I would have to make them taller, or cut the stock or something. Maybe the sights can just sit there looking good and I will get a backup scope if I really ever needed one.
Just curious if anyone had this issue and what you did.
Thanks,
Rich

I have the same problem with using iron sights with a stock set up for scope use. My solution is a second scope sighted in for the rifle. All of my rifle have Weaver bases with Leupold PRW rings. This returns to zero as well as any other.

Dave

Use a low comb stock, it works well with both scope and irons...My age class grew up shooing the mod 70 and Rem 721 and 722..For that we were blessed...this 3 point business is a farce IMO..Why some folks think they cannot adjuse is a wonderment to me..

Thanks for the insight you guys, I appreciate it. I like both ideas just cannot make use of the sights like it is now.

sandpaper is like 3$ a package at the ace hardware.
I have to raise the comb on some of my rifles to see through a scope.
I'm getting pretty good with the band saw and chiseling out the wood for the comb kits.

Get a adjustable cheek rest.

https://www.thefirearmblog.com...kalix-teknik-sweden/

I use QRW rings from Leupold. I have found a bit of data on the thescoutrifleforum.org Be Well. Packy

I like the looks of a clean barrel. Except for my Model 94 Winchester, which at my age I can't focus both sights and the target, so all of my hunting rifles have a scope on top of a clean barrel.

In over 50 years of hunting (including a dozen international hunts) I've never had a problem shooting just a scoped rifle.

Heck, remove the front sight and set it up with a small mounting block for a removable and small Olympic or International Globe sight. And then use one of numerous adjustable receiver sights that mount to the rear scope base. Switching from scope to Iron sights is an easy conversion.

Phil

Thanks for all the great information. I am remembering I did once grind/sand down a really high comb on an air rifle some years ago just to get a reasonable cheek weld, so am not opposed to it. I like the idea of QD sights or scopes as well.
Its just a shame those good looking sights are so low, for me anyway.
Rich

On the back side of some scope bases can be mounted a foldable ghost ring sight designed for the mini-14. You can purchase them @ Brownell's.#780-001-222WB. You can open the aperture with a small drill bit until it is right. Front sight might need changing. I use an M-16 post front sight with protective wings from Techsights. #TS00175 Packy

I worried about irons for years...until I didn't and I have never has to use them for "backup".

I was always especially concerned on my backpack sheep hunts but my fears were unfounded and the last few times my sheep rifles had no irons.

Maybe I'm just lucky...or good and lucky.. but even with some tumbles, I've been able to protect the optics from harm.

With that said, do what YOU want but I'd want the stock for the scope setup correctly first.

Zeke

The basic principle is that the stock is designed to place the cheek so that the eye line is over the sighting devise - be it a scope or open sights.

It is impossible to get the rifle to fit correctly for both scope and open sights.

A big bore like a 375 would kick more if the comb was dropped to use open sights.

I restocked my 9.5X57 Mannlicher Schoenauer and raised the comb to reduce recoil and also to mount a scope one day. Now I cannot shoot the open sights at all. The rifle shoot very high with the open sights!

" and I will get a backup scope if I really ever needed one."

or /and a Red Dot to sit on the Ruger scope mount cut

quote:

Originally posted by Clan_Colla:
" and I will get a backup scope if I really ever needed one."

or /and a Red Dot to sit on the Ruger scope mount cut

This.

I have a Weaver style base on my 9.3x62 (*which also has Irons, mind you). My back up "scope" is this little Bushnell TRS25...

I can ring 8" steel at 200 yards all day with it.

Seems crazy but it's a darn near perfect backup.

As to irons...They're back ups. Comfort isn't the meaning, getting a group at some reasonable distance is. I've personally never found dovetail (open Irons) to be useful beyond 100 yards (*worn glasses since the 2nd grade). Approaching 2 months shy of 50, now with Lasik and readers...irons are rather meaningless to me.

I'd get a back up scope in some form of quick mount setup and call it a good day. Remember, it's a backup scope. It just has to be reliable and get the job done. It doesn't have to be an exact match for that $2k SwaroZieCa primary scope.

quote:

In over 50 years of hunting (including a dozen international hunts) I've never had a problem shooting just a scoped rifle.

+1

I've never, ever found need of "back up" sights, which is a concept that has its roots in the days of early, less dependable scopes. Perhaps sixty years ago before most scopes were hermetically sealed and nitrogen filled, some hunters in damp/cold climates experienced scope fogging. And some early scope mounts were delicate and subject to easily breaking or being knocked out of alignment. That is now pretty much a thing of the past.

If you are hunting far from home and conditions make your rifle subject to possible failure, you should take a back up RIFLE, not a back up sighting system.

Besides, do you really want to try to pick a Big Horn Sheep or a four-point Mule Deer off of a ledge 350 yards away with iron sights you haven't used in years and don't really know how well they are sighted for the loads you're shooting?

Try your iron sights once in a while. You never know when you will need them. Packy

Put on a taller ramp or sight in front and adjust the rear accordingly. You will see the front sight slightly with a variable scope set to lowest power but it is not distracting.
If your stock is set up for scope use and you lower the comb, it may not work with the scope which you use 99% of the time.
Like others, my rifles are set up with QR mounts and I bring an extra scope but also have the irons just in case.

I set my Ruger model 77 416 Ruger with an NECG receiver sight that fits on the rear base for my Zim buffalo hunts. It requires a taller front sight. The stock Ruger rings are very repeatable if you push the ring and scope forward when putting the scope back on. When flying all the way to Africa it is reassuring to have a back up sight. The only problem is not loosing the receiver sight. Unfortunately the NECG pistol grip cap has a compartment too small for their own sight.

Find a gunsmith who uses steam to bend stocks for shotguns.Have him bend the stock down so that your eye can align with the sights.It should not require that much- probably less than an inch.He will measure you with a measuring instrument beforehand to determine how much he should bend.It should then work both for scope and irons.This should save your cheekbone from the recoil also.

Tall removable front sights for bolt rifles can be made that screw onto threaded barrels that sometimes use silencers or buffers. A witness mark when tightened to mark TDC or zeroed. Then when removed you'd still have that nice clean barrel profile that so many of you like. Weaver and a few others make riser blocks for the rear scope base that will give you a nice tall mount for a ghost ring receiver sight. There's many ways to do a nice job... just requires you to make-up your mind to do it.


Phil

I guess I have been lucky in that the Ruger sights have lined up okay for me.

I think scopes are pretty good these days. I can only think of one instance of a scope getting fogged up during a hunt, and it was operator error. I was carrying the rifle around in bad weather without scope covers, and snow got on the ocular lens which caused the inexpensive scope to fog. Lesson learned and no real harm because it was a local hunt. No sights on that rifle.

This is a lot of good info to think about, Thanks. I learn something every time I come to this forum. I should give the sights a try. It’s free, but I expect to get battered a bit. Next is to come up with a backup plan.

Rich

I liked and used my irons extensively in Africa and I grew up using irons, and later in high school I used Weaver scopes..BTW Weaver bases in many cases are low enough or can be cut to work with irons over the bases...A high ugly rear island and front sight can be made to work but its ugly and clunky looking..If anyone here has used a scope on a pre war or pre 64 mod. 70 they are stocked for irons and work just fine with a scope, sometimes I think the gun stuff is just mental..Ive never seen the need for a high combed rifle or felt helpless with a low combed rifle..put the X on the target and apply a controlled jerk to the trigger still works today just like yesterday.

I like the idea of back-up irons, and I zero them on any rifle that has them. I then just mount a good scope and forget about the irons. I have taken a spare scope set up in rings more often, even for a rifle with back up irons. A second rifle as a spare suits me better. I had a LWT 340W kick the guts out of two reputable scopes, a Leupold about a week before a SA/Namibia trip and a Zeiss while in Namibia. I just used my friends rifle ( which had formerly been mine anyhow) Shots were long and I doubt I would have had the success I experienced with using irons. I came home and set up a rifle with irons, QD mounts, zeroed them first. That's going on 21 years now and never had a need again, ha.

I don't use irons as an emergency option, I use them a lot particularly in Africa or when deer hunting...My old mod. 70 .270 is a sho nuff pre 64 std wt. low comb tack driver with or without irons, but as a rule it packs a 2.5X Alaskan (Leupold) or a 4X Leupold depending on what the stars read that night! Its killed its share of game over the years, and I now have its twin, and its strictly a iron sight gun so far...shoots an inch with irons at 100 off the bench, not too shabby..

Bottom line is I would not own a big game rifle without irons sights, most of my varmint guns have irons but seldom get used unless I leave the house for a iron sight day of rockchucks,coyotes and foxes if get lucky, and that's fun. Misses on such critters is of no consequence to me..If you kill everything you shoot at it gets boring..

I wouldn't have a hunting rifle without a good quality set of irons. Not just for backup either. I find irons to be particularly useful in close cover and honestly in snap shooting situations and at running game.

I use Warne QDs on my Czs and they return to zero perfectly every time. The trick with the stock is to get one with a little lower comb. Its easier to adjust to a comb thats a touch too low with a scope than it is with one thats to high with irons.

I like the profile that was used on the early sporting mausers or even the winchester 54 though i dont care for the rifle its self.

I agree with old school, well might take exception that he doesn't care for the win. 54, maybe the pre 64 mod 70 and prefers a Mauser, but as much as I like the 54 and 70, I still lean towards a Mauser as the best bolt action rifle ever on the face of this earth. Today the Ruger African model sure impresses me..

LOL...on the 54 i don't like the bolt release (trigger) and on both the 54 and the 70 I don't care for the gas handling. I saw a real bad situation occur when a factory round separated at the head on a pre-64 and just about killed a guy and badly injured a bystander. The shooter lost an eye and the bystander got a face full of shrapnel.

They just arnt very safe and to be honest I hate that damn swing out safety.

I know I'm a minority on the saftey setup. I will say I like the trigger on the 70 though LOL

I also agree that the Ruger African is outstanding. Especially in the recent specials for Lipseys in 275 Rigby and 9.3x62. Very nice guns at very low prices. They have a better scope mounting system than any model 70 and a better trigger (simpler) than the new model 70 knock offs.

The new Ruger barrels arnt half bad either through my bore scope.

Well I for one wish rifles still came with the option of open sights both as a simple lightweight backup and for looks. I guess I'm too old school I suppose. Most young shooters don't appear to know how to use them anymore.

As for brands of rifles I would be quite content with a new model 70 classic. It solves all the shortcomings of the pre-64's and to me the trigger is better. Tough saying that as I like the old trigger but the new one is smoother. As far a as being more complicated? For goodness sakes it only has ONE more moving part in it! It's hardly complicated.

I think today most young folks are too busy making ends meet to ever really learn to shoot and figured out with a scope properly sighted it and with a rest all you need is to pull the trigger..and in most cases that is a fact..

Ive won a lot of bucks shooting off hand with irons and low power scope shooting at 100 yards against high power scopes that move off target with every breath and the shooter grabbing at the trigger as the cross hairs floated by the bullseye..I see guys in Texas shooting deer out of a blind with camo on, and 6x24 scopes at 100 yards with big caliber monster killers on 100 pound deer, some are good friends btw...to each his own but it pays to learn to shoot in the field off hand and with Irons like you father perhaps grandfather did..and its fun when you find out just how accurate iron sights can be contrary to some reports by those experts who never learned to shoot.

From what I’ve seen unless they’ve developed a flinch and phobia of scoping anything bigger than a .243 thanks to a stock crawling incident most young cash strapped shooters will put a sub $500 variable scope on and go shoot. If they can afford an entry level European rifle and try to use the irons they’ll quickly find they are only still fitted for shooting wounded game that are followed up and shot at short range.

IMO, irons put hunting back in place, the sneak is the best part of a hunt..I liked hunting with a bow and muzzle loader at times in my life, and met with a multitude of failures, and a kill was a dream come true..that was with a stick and string and a Hawkins rifle, not modern tech that's used widely today..I love to loaf around and sit a lot with my 25-35 or 30-30 if I draw a tag behind my house..Its a stroll hunt, I have lots of time and the deer and elk are plentiful, most of the time, and yes some are out of range, mostly the trophies..