Okayyyyyyyy, now the question for all of you "gotta have" iron sight guys. How much practice do you do with the iron sights. Hmmm, I thought so. The use of iron sights, buckhorn or peep, require practice just like properly mounting a rifle with a scope on it does.

Iwzbeeman, Sir, rubbish.
For starters, I took the original posters intent to be whether some of us wanted irons on a barrel just for looks, as most normal people would want a scope, and most scopes always work.

If we wanted back up we'd have extra scopes or rifles.
As for practise with sights, I've lost count of the people I've seen shoot really well on their first go, with any sight. (When I was a kid, I was one, but no great shakes really.)

Why would you need practise to line a couple of things up? It's just eyesight.
Practise may be great for SPEED in lineing things up, and trigger release if not using a rest,etc.

By coincedence, this afternoon I just tried out my newly installed safari style open sights, and amazed myself at how well I went.
How hard can it be to put a bead in a V ?

Considering that for about 40 years I haven't used open sights, and have whinged like a stuck pig about how I have trouble with peeps etc.
Only trouble was, without the heavy steel Pecar
scope, she kicked like a mule.
But at least it looks like an African rifle now.
And they DON't with a bare barrel.

I'm with Ray, no vote though generally I can see no need for iron's on a rifle. On the other hand, some rifles just seem to "need" sights, at least as an aesthetic treatment, and you could probably make an argument as backup's for a failed scope. A short carbine looks "right" IMO with sights and a genuine "wilderness wandering rifle" should have them. Ditto a genuine DGR rifle. For 99% of us for 99% of our hunting they're an unecessary weight and expense and a backup scope zeroed and ready to go is a better place to spend money. Done right, however, iron's look cool!

Man, sounds like I'm running for political office...

quote:

Done right, however, iron's look cool!

I'll secoond this, especially for good quality iron like NECG express sights with banded front. Add in a nice barrel band and you've got a really neat look IMO...

But then again, a sightless barrel is graceful look of its own as well...

On the three deer I have killed, and that was about ten years ago, two of which were shot with iron sights. One deer with a stock M24 Finnish Mosin at about 30 feet, one deer with a slug gun, about about 20 feet, and one deer with a scope under 25 yards. At these distances iron sights work quite well.

There is no doubt that a scope provides much better clarity at dust and early dawn. With a scope you can pick a small aiming point on the animal, like a patch of hair or the crease of the shoulder point, which greatly increases the probability of good shot placement. This something you cannot do with irons past 75-100 yards.

However, I still would not hesitate to pick up and go hunting my M70 featherweight with its Lyman 48 sight, or any of my iron sighted rifles. And it is because I am very familiar and comfortable with iron sights. I think this is why most people have stopped using irons: a lack of practice. Irons are very accurate if you practice with them. But it takes lots and lots of practice. Just this weekend I was shooting in a 100 yard Highpower Match with my iron sighted M1a. When you practice to the point that you can put ten shots, out of 20 prone, in a .7 inch area, with a maximum spread of 2 inches, in the rain, you develop confidence in yourself and your rifle. I have shot that same rifle in scores of across the course matches. At 200 yards and 300 yards the ten ring is seven inches in diameter. I have shot many ten shot rapid cleans. At one 500 yard match, I kept all 20 prone slow fire shots in the 12†five hundred yard ten ring. (I seldom shoot 500 or 600 yard cleans, and that was my only with a M1a). The point is, you can shoot very accurately with iron sights. But you have to practice. When you use irons, and find out that you can shoot very well with them, well iron sights don’t seem to be that big of a handicap.

And maybe more people should be using irons. After all if I were hunting with them, I would not be taking shots past three hundred yards. The animal would appear to be too small and I would recognize that I am at my end of my maximum range for a clean kill. I think people are deceived about their hit probability when using those high magnification scopes. Yes, at 500, 600, or even 1000 yards, you can dial up that scope to 12, 24 or 36 power, and the animal looks big. But then most shooters would be shooting at a distance that is beyond their skill level to hold and hit. If the animal looked like a pin head on top the post, they probably would not shoot. And then there would be one less wounded animal to run off and die a miserable death.

quote:

Originally posted by iwzbeeman:
How much practice do you do with the iron sights.

I shoot a couple hundred rounds a year out of my Yugo 48. No it's not the rifle that I normally hunt with but once I know that thoes are ok with their iron sights and I know how to use them it's not an issue.

Jal, Rubbish? I didn't see anything about esthetics in the original poll. And, in fact, most of the pro-iron post justified the open sights as back ups. FWIW, somewhere in among the posts, I suggested a pre sighted spare scope was a better back up.
However, if the poll was about what we think looks purdy or kewl on a rifle, we have another whole can of worms to open.
From you post about time being of no consequence in sight alignment nor any need for practice, I assume you don't hunt much.

quote:

Originally posted by iwzbeeman:
Jal, Rubbish? I didn't see anything about esthetics in the original poll. [Quote]


Goodday Iwzbeeman. Re above, Nor did I see anything about for being as a back-up.
Or as being the primary sights either for that matter. Which is why I opened the can of worms.

Well, people are different, and I have seen a character that could just not use a scope. Couldn't get a shot off at a running Buffalo at all. Another joker was telling me how slow they were to line up, and used a Dork in a movie as an example. I can't belive it to this day.
I even noticed your good self somewhere here said you thought a low powered scope should be or may be faster than open sights.

Well, I'd suggest that if it's not, your scope mounting set-up must be out of wack, or that your so quick aligning open sights that you sure don't need any practise at it.

But, sure, practise IS good, but if all these gents here that have irons as back-up, but have never needed them, well that would be a lot of practise that they would never apparently need.

And I still say, any experenced shooter that couldn't effectivly use (at a pinch) any sight,
perhaps shouldn't be waveing a gun around at all.


[Quote]
From you post about time being of no consequence in sight alignment nor any need for practice, I assume you don't hunt much.

Um, I think what I mean is that the difference in ME practising with DIFFERENT sight systems would have very little consequence, compared to having practise with the PARTICULAR rifle. IE. Feel,fit, and trigger release.
It's a real bugger having all these different rifles, sights, and trigger pulls.

Don't wan't to get into a pissing contest thanks re hunting time, enough to say that here we don't have hunting seasons, I retired early, and the shooting area is about 12 minutes away.
I just like to prod people to get them to open up on their opinions. You never know, I may learn something. And thanks for answering.
Regards, John L.

quote:

Originally posted by 9.3x62:
[ generally CRF have sights and PF don't...

Is this a reason for one or the other that I can't see?[/QUOTE]


Anyway, that's how it has played out in my battery...[/QUOTE]

Yes,I thought it must have been a DG type of thing. Sorry I missed your reply until today.
I must have been out shooting my PF .458WM

quote:

I must have been out shooting my PF .458WM

Do they even make those???

quote:

Originally posted by iwzbeeman:
Okayyyyyyyy, now the question for all of you "gotta have" iron sight guys. How much practice do you do with the iron sights. Hmmm, I thought so. The use of iron sights, buckhorn or peep, require practice just like properly mounting a rifle with a scope on it does.

Yes, believe it or not, some people do practice a lot with iron sights.

Some even take rifles without scopes into the woods hunting.

Steve

quote:

Originally posted by 9.3x62:

quote:

I must have been out shooting my PF .458WM

Do they even make those???

You betcha, Thanks for asking, no one want's to talk about my M70 Super Grade 458WM made in 1976.
Ya don't need CRF if ya PF don't Jam.

I have shot a few deer with open sites, when I use to mount scopes on those see thru mounts... but that was a while ago, and I have gotten use to scopes....

I do have to speak up for a few sights I have seen from the old days, Lyman peep sites, that I have on some old military sporterized rifles, I have picked up from estate sales... sporterized in the 1950s...

Those that have a globe site at the end of the barrel.... those things are pretty darn easy to see with... but I gather a good set up, costs as much as a mid quality scope.. say $125.-- to $150.00.... so why not just go with the scope????

At 53, I am not going to BS you guys, or myself... My eyesight sucks!!!!.. and isn't getting better....Guys like me need a scope, althought I am surprised at times, of the group sizes I can get at times with barrel and receiver sights on a rifle...

cheers
seafire

I do OK with iron sights in bright daylight. But the sights disappear when there's still plenty of daylight left with a scope.

If I'm buying a new scoped sporting rifle, I've got no use for iron sights on it, and I think they look silly. Wouldn't have a scope on one of my milsurps for love or money, 'cause that just isn't right.

I was among the very first ones in this part of the country to use a scope in the woods deer hunting. It was a K-6 fixed power on a Remington pump .270 and it was a great setup. year was 1962....

Others said I'd never find the target in the scope in the woods. BS...scopes are on all of my rifles except the .404 Jeffery and I wouldn't be without one on a deer or other big game rifle.

That said I have slipped in the snow and banged my scope on a rock and was without sights. All it takes is a quarter to remove my scope and with the irons I can still continue to hunt until I can install a new scope.

In the 60s the image of a naked barrel was spectacular.....I loved it.....today the ramped front sight with a hood is the image I like and functionally it's a good backup tool. Rarely used....but badly needed when it's needed.

The poll results currently are 60-40 in favor of irons and for the same reasons.....looks and function as a backup.

I really thought the larger vote would be for bald barrels...not so this time.