I just bought a Remington 338 Ultra Mag. it is an accurate gun no doubt, but it is, without question, the hardest kicking SOB I have ever shot. It is me, or has anybody else had similar experience with this beast? I wanted to put a brake on it, but Remington says that it could be seriously detrimental to my hearing (even after one shot). So I guess I am stuck. Any suggestions?????

A brake will be fine as long as you wear hearing protection at all times.

The other thing you could do is to borrow someone's Made in Japan 378 Wby (USA ones have a brake and heavier barrel) and fire it a few times.

After that your 338 Ultra will feel like someone has put cast bullet loads in it

The other option is the obvious one of using reduced loads. A powder like Varget would let you get around 338 factory ammo ballistics, powder weight and recoil.

Mike

Each shot taken with a muzzlebrake will cause hearing damage if ear protection is not worn.

Al, I'm not certain what kind of recoil pad comes on the Remington 700 you have, but that's one place to start. A 1" Pachmyer "Decelrator" would certainly bring a bit of relief. Of course Stubblejumber is quite right about muzzle brakes... I wouldn't have one on a rifle. You certainly could judiciously add lead weight in the forearm and butt of the stock, but that sort of defeats the purpose of a hunting rifle (as opposed to "sniper" rifle).

I am truly sorry to say (I mean that) you've just re-discovered why the 338 WM is such a nice cartridge and why there are a good supply of 338 UM's to be found used. Me, I'd trade it on a 338 WM or 375 H&H and chalk it up to a learning experience.

Best Regards,

Brad

There ain't no such thing as a free lunch.

If you want performance, it comes at a cost - recoil. Weight helps, breaks help, but at the end of the day, you cannot cheat physics. Muzzle breaks are an abomination on hunting rifles. Unless you wish to lose your hearing, you must wear hearing protection even in the field. Many argue that hearing damage occurs even with hearing protection. You are dealing with 180db+.

Recoil is the number one cause for flinching, noise is second. Flinching and accuracy do not go hand-in-hand. What good is the additional velocity of the RUM design if you cannot shoot the gun accurately?

Either shoot the gun a bunch and train yourself away from the recoil response, alter the gun, or trade for a more suitable rifle. There are a lot of RUMs on the market on sale for a reason...

Al - if you reload, try loading it down a little bit to take the edge off the recoil. I've used the 180 Nosler BT's at lower velocities in my 338 RUM and they shoot great and the recoil is more managable. You can work up a hunting load later and at the performance level you want, 338 Win, 340 Wby or 338 RUM. Don't be influenced by the typical nay-sayers! The 338 RUM is an outstanding cartridge.

Since you got the monster, you can do what I did when starting to slug hunt in OH and MD. When I first shot a Federal 3" slug out of my shotgun, I thought there was nothing that could have kicked harder. I was getting ready to go back down to 2 3/4". And yes, it affected my accuracy. But I just shot it alot, and now, I think my accuracy is as good as it gets with a slug and the recoil doesn't cause the flinch it used too. I won't hesitate to pick it up and shoot prone, freehanded or on the bench. I think the bench causes more recoil than anywhere. So when I started shooting my 338RUM, I didn't think it was too bad in comparison.

So in short, it might cost you alot of money, unless you reload, but sooner or later, you will become more accustomed to it, if you want to. Also, between shots, I work on my flinch to make sure that pychologically, I am not scared of the shot. So I usually take a 22LR with me and fire off a few rounds. Also practice the coin test, and have a friend cycle a round and load a round or not. These practices keep me used to shooting it and with great accuracy. If I don't go thru these regimens, I do notice a flinch and accuracy suffers. I don't know why I got it. I really don't use it for hunting but more playing around at the range. I usually use my 300Win mag or 300 RUM on moose, and blackbear which is plenty. Use my 270Win on prongs and deer. But might be taking a future Africa trip where the 338RUM might be useful to me. Just its not a big gun I want to pack around Colorado with and I really don't need it for North American game. Keep at it and it will get better.

Thanks for the advise guys. I think I am just going to grin and bare it with this 338 RUM. Besides I saw a standup "bench" at the firing range last week. They use these in Europe apparently to shoot heavy recoiling guns. I think that may help. I was told a guy shot something called a "4 Bore." This behemouth sports an 1100 grain bullet (ouch) and he did not break his shoulder so maybe there's hope.

Al,

I should have my 500 Jeffrey in the next month or so, and I'm sure a few shots with it will help condition your shoulder I'd go with the other advice, simply load it to 338 win balistics, 250 gr @ 2700 should be just the ticket, cheaper then a break, and w/o the nasty blast. I also highly recomend a past mag shoulder pad if you aren't already using one.

We had a recent thread about the 338 win vs 338 ultra, with many of us stating that the increase in recoil over the 338 win mag wasn't worth the increase in speed.

After having my 35 whelen re-chambered to a 350 Rigby, I've definately found there seems to be a recoil threshold for the medium bores with 250 gr bullets. With 66 gr of Varget it clocks 2700 and is pleasant to shoot. With 72 gr 4350 it clocks the same 2700, but is unpleasant to shoot. I am very glad I didn't have it re-chambered to a 35 ultra, as it would be very unpleasant to shoot

Alaskan Al : As others said, you may be able to reduce felt recoil just enough to make it manageable for you by using a different recoil pad. If I was you, I would at least try a "Magnum" recoil pad such as some I have seen advertised at Cabela's. These recoil pads are wore over your shirt, with a strap over your shoulder and another around your chest or waist. I believe Pact makes a "Magnum" recoil pad.

Muzzle brakes work great if you plan to shoot the rifle often or when developing handloads, but you must always wear hearing protectors regardless of if the rifle is braked or not. If the range is crowded, I would not use a braked rifle near other shooters. Early in the morning there are maybe a shooter or two at the range in Fairbanks, so I can shoot as much as I want with my braked rifle. While hunting I wear a set of electronic ear muffs, but since these are not rain proof I keep ear plugs in my pockets for back-up.

Al,

While my first post on 378 Weatherby was in semi jest, there is a lot of truth to it.

One thing I would suggest, is to read up and gather information on big bores.

The reality is, that in the recoil stakes area, the 338 Ultra ain't really much.

Over many years at our rifle range I have often noticed that shooters with a 375 H&H who see it as a "cannon" find the recoil far worse than those 375 shooters who see the 375 H&H as no more than a medium power caliber.

In other words, I think that a real good knowledge of what is out there in big bore land is almost as good as shooting them and then following up with your toy like 338 Ultra

Mike

[ 07-10-2002, 07:24: Message edited by: Mike375 ]

Mike,

While the 338 ultra does not have the numerically impressive recoil levels of the truly big bores, it has the nasty fast jab recoil that many of us detest.

As my previous post mentioned, I have two loads that drive the same bullets the same speed, but the slower powder with the heavier charge is noteably more unpleasant to shoot than the faster powder, lighter charge.

I had a similar experience with the 458 lott when trying VV N550 powder, I was over 100 fps slower then my RL 15 loads, yet the recoil was more intense due to the heavier charge.

There is truth to shooting a bigger bore will make smaller ones feel milder, as I alternated between an ultralight 308 and the lott one day, and the .308 fealt utterly recoil less in comparison

Paul,

I have never bought this "fast" and "slow" recoil, both from how it feels to me and also some basic physics.

I can tell you that for me a 460 Wby with the brake off has recoil way above the 338/378 without a brake.

But let us look at the physics.

We are hit by a projectile in free motion, that is the rifle.

Some fairly simply calculations will show that depending on the bullet, powder and gun weight, the gun will move back from about 1/16th to 1/8th of an inch while the bullet and powder is going up the barrel. Of course in the case of a 30/378, it does that bit of travel much quicker than a 30 8and so the velocity of the rifle is higher.

Now even 1/8th of an inch will be hardly enough to crease your shirt. Next stage of course is when the bullet clears the barrel. It is difficult to imagine that the rifle would travel back any further than another 1/8th of an inch while under "gas" power. So say we have a total gun movement of 1/4" under "power".

That is very little.

On the other hand the old recoil forumal that used 4700 f/s for gas velocity is probably understating things for Ultra and 378 type calibers since these origianl formulas would have been based around the 30/06.

I believe that "fast" and "slow" recoil is strictly a mental situation.

A lot of has to do with how you shoot bigger slow bullets. You are usually more relaxed.

Lastly, let me mention a measurement I often see.

These days I put a 15 pound bag of lead shot behind the butt with anything that goes bang.

I can assure you that a 375 sends that bag further than the 300 Win and 7mm STWs do. Since the rifles weigh about the same the 375 rifle must be travelling at high velocity.

Also consider the 458 Win and 458 Lott Vs 300 Win and 300 Wby. It is the 458s that accelarate the stock so severely that second lugs are needed. A 458 Lott or Win will drive you back much further than the 300 Wby will. Since after maybe a 1/4 inch of travel "under power" the gun is a free flying missile, it must be travelling at higher velocity than the 300s when it gets past the creasing your shirt stage.

Over to you

Mike

[ 07-10-2002, 10:27: Message edited by: Mike375 ]

Alaskan Al - don't muzzle brake your 338RUM - load down as previously posted, get a Decelerator pad for the stock and buy a recoil pad like a Past Mag plus - Paul's idea of shooting a heavier recoiling rifle is neat, I will volunteer a 450 Ackley so the transition to Paul's 500 Jeff is not too overwhelming See you at Rabbit Creek !!! Pull the trigger and hang on - yippee!

Al,
weight is your friend, if you are going to shoot full power loads. also, shoot standing for the first couple rounds at the range. My pack and I all shoot standing at 50 yards, to start and to end the day.
As for fast recoil, I KNOW it to be true. I can not stand the 300 rum, and I shoot 577, 458, 416, 375/376, etc etc. I was shooting with a local gunmaker, and fired his 11# 300 rum, with factory loads, right after shooting my 8.25# 300 winmag, loaded hot. I could shoot 3 rounds (touching, btw) but not the forth.. just rattled me too much.

the past recoil shield, mag, is great for helping. it makes the guns feel like the next one down... 300 feels like 308, etc. great deal, for 30 bucks or so.

load it down to start, or, load it hard, and shoot 5 rounds, and then shoot your normal load.

cheers
jeffe

As someone mentioned, I think "recoil training" is a good idea with this gun. I have a 700PSS in 300 Win Mag that I do alot of load development for. After sitting at the bench for awhile, I will sometimes start to flinch. Thats when I have my GF or buddy load the rifle for me, and I don't know if there is a case in it or not. You will be suprised at how much you pull whenever you think there is a live round in the chamber!

Hi all, I just bought a rem.700 BDL in 338 mag. Except for my mauser 45/70,it is the only high power rifles I have.The rest are 25/06 and down. There was a muzzle brake installed on the 338 when I bought it. To me the kick is strange feeling.It is like a hard slap followed by a push. My 45/70 on the other hand 18" barrel is just a kick that moves me back a bit.I havent fired the 338 more than 6 times in a row but it isnt any worse than my 25/06. I will install a Kick-ez pad so my wife can shoot it. I realize the brake is eating a bunch of recoil. I agree that downloading is an easy way to reduce recoil especially with the light bullets. I shoot the 200 grain bullets now,I am waiting on the 250's which will be here soon. Good Shooting.

Hey Alaskan, when i bought my 338 rum i was on cloud nine After shooting it for the first time thou, let me tell you brother, i said to myself what the hell did i get myself into? I was in the same boat you have found yourself in. After thinking it over for a few day's i decided to have a brake installed, went with a gentry and i am a new man. I could shoot it all day long. One thing thou you better have hearing protection. Out in colorado last elk season when a cow jumped out whith out even thinking touched her off and man let me tell you... I thought somebody stood behind me and gave me there best open hand slap right on my left ear,wasn't the same for at least three months. I found thou that if you wear earplug's lightly inserted you still can hunt. Just enough to take the bite off.

Our local sporting goods store (Bob Ward's) was selling 700 Ultra's last weekend for $500 with four boxes of ammo thrown in the deal just to move what they had in inventory... I believe they didn't have any takers. If anywhere is "Ultra Country", this is it. Should tell you something!

BA

Wow, I know that store. Just called Bob Ward and Sons and they said they will be selling 7mm RUM and 338RUM for 499 + 4 boxs of ammo in a week or so. Right now they are 650. Thats outstanding. I think I might pick up a 7mm BDL since I might be working in the area. Shoot, if it doesn't turn out to be a shooter, you always have a good action to build on.

[ 07-25-2002, 02:54: Message edited by: bigcountry ]

Al,

I will tell you a little story. My brother-in-law took advantage of Savage's Package Gun thing when they first came out. He tried "working up" loads but everything seemed to shoot better than he could so he was happy.

He was using box-stock ammo when he was in the Brooks Range about five years ago drawing down on a beautiful ram. One shot and now he has permanent tinntinitus in his left ear. Don't take a chance...you'll have to live with it and it never goes away.

Do as others said, good advice, start low and every time you go out have 3-5 shells loaded just a little hotter than your current crop. Work up. Use that huge Pachmayer (I think it is the Magnum) a ventilated 3-layer job. Think about a mercury reducer. Little things that will give you pride of ownership.
A rifle sitting in your closet 'cause you detest shooting it is not worth your time. Make them shoot the way you like.

Just keep shooting it. When I got mine, and loaded it up w/ max loads from Nosler 210gr and 250gr partitions, I expected it to kick and so I wasn't in for a surprise. I had a ball shooting it for about 15 rounds then my shoulder was done. I don't notice the kick at all in the field (I don't think anyone ever does) and it's a great caliber IMHO. I've gotten some of my best groups yet with this gun...1/2" isn't a problem, and I had a one hole group going until I got excited and pulled the next shot. I'm gonna use the 250gr SAF's on my elk hunt in a month and a half, and I'll let you know how it goes!!!!

All of your posts have gotten me pumped. I may be picking up my stainless Sendero .338RUM tomorrow.

Scott

Hi Alaskan Al...

I have a 300 RUM with a custom break on it. And yes the SOB really kicked. It is a very fast kick straight back.I had a custom cap made with the break.... when hunting screw off the break, screw on the cap. At the range for load development and pratice put on the break. My point of bullet impact is for all pratical purposes the same.

Everyone knows that you will never feel the recoil when shooting at live game.

Yes... they are very loud, but with a good set of Muffs at the range you will be safe. With the break on it's like shooting a 308 win. My rifle shoots 3/4 in groups @ 3335 FPS... Factory Rem 180 grn Nosler Partitons. Another benefit is if you just add the break to your existing barrel you will pick up 50 to 75 FPS.. I will NEVER give up my muzzle break. I like to pratice with my Hunting Rifles a lot. The Muzzle Break makes this pratice enjoyable.

Now before you guys start saying, nawh... your just a pussy, I also shoot without breaks a 375 H&H Mag & a 458 Win Mag, the latter without a recoil pad, just one of those little red hard pads on the old Rugers. I also have a Custom 416 Rem Mag shooting handloads using 400 grn Swift or Barnes @ 2500 FPS... and yes Daddy this baby has a break.... love it. When you get into the 40's the muzzle blast, sound that is, is not as great as the fast 30's. The recoil reduction isn't as great either, but it's better than no break at all. My 416 break is permanent, it has the open sight hood over the break, and the holes drilled right through the band that holds on the front sight, very cool custom touch. It was invented by my gunsmith.

My advice, muzzle break that puppy, screw on for pratice, off for Hunting... Good Luck.. I am off to Africa on Saturday afternoon...