Thinking of building a gun, 7mm but for what I want it might be cheaper to buy one from the factory, this is what I'm looking for if I build, Mcmillan stock with full bedding and pillar posts , krieger ss barrel 24" flutted, muzzle brake, timney trigger, Rem action with 3 way safety, not sure how much but probably over 2000$. Or should I buy a factory gun that most of the stuff I need is already on it? Now which factory gun, Weatherby accumark, Sako, Kimber looks good, or remington all in ss with black synthetic stocks. If anyone has gone done this road before any help is appreciated, and I'm sure I dont have all material listed for building one.
Thanks
Elmer

Elmer,

I would guess just about everyone on this forum has faced this question. In my opinion the right answer is to do do what will make you happy in the long run. Of course the custom route is expensive, but with the right bulider you will get what you pay for.

I'm not trying to dodge your question, but I don't think the answer is technical.

Good luck,

Buliwyf

to me I think the weatherbys are a waste of money, you can have a rifle put together with a custom tube for about the same money, If you went with a push fed winchester you would get a better extaction system and 3 POS saftey, without needing to be modded like the remmy. buy a used rifle, sell of the stock and barrel, you should be at $300 for a doner action, $500 for barrel fitting, $500 for mcmillian and bedding, re work factory trigger or install timney, you are still less than $1500 bucks!! kinda makes owning a blazer or weatherby look foolish

There are several ways you could go. You might look at HS Precision rifles. With an HS Precision you would have a better action and trigger, better safety and equivelant barrel. I would prefer a McMillan to an HS Stock though. With the HS you would have an accuracy guarantee amd a rifle that would hold it's value better than a put together gun would.
Or for about 1/2 the price of either you could just buy a Kimber Montana. You would end up with a much lighter rifle. It would have a lighter but very stiff stock, A far better action, better safety, better trigger an very good barrel but maybe not quite a Krieger, though it will probably shoot as well as a Krieger would in that light a contour.
Another option would be a Sako 75 or 85. They are accuracy guaranteed and have by far the smoothest action we've talked about here. I would prefer a McMillan to the factory Sako stock but some like the fit of the Sako style. The Sako's I've had shot at least as well as most customs I'v shot. If you like a removeable box magazine there's is superb, I like it much better than the HS version.

All in all for you I think the most important consideration is value retention. It's very rare for a assembled rifle to sell for anywhere near what it cost you to put it together. If you get a decent deal on a factory gun you can often sell it a few years later and loose little or no value. If you know exactly what you want the custom rifle can get you there. But if you aren't sure exactly what you want and need a rifle to keep it's value in case you want to sell it, factory rifles are a better idea......................DJ

It depends on what you really want or need.
Is the rifle going to be used for long range target shooting, hunting, or both?
A custom rifle put together by a quaility smith will out shoot its factory counterpart. But is the difference going to be noticable in the field on most big game shots- probably not.
And as stated above a custom rifle will generally not resale anywhere near what you paid for it.
With that said I just dropped some big bucks having a Greg Tannel build me a custom XP 100 pistol. All I can say after shooting it is that will put my varmint rifles to shame, so to me well worth it.

Check out Hill Country Rifles, in New Braunfels, TX. I know one of their 'smiths personally, and she does A++++ work.

http://www.hillcountryrifles.com/

+1 on checking into Hill Country.

A custom from a well known shop like Hill Country is a lot more likely to retain it's value than from a local Jo Schmo even though Jo Schmo might to equal work.................DJ

quote:

Originally posted by elmerdeer:
Thinking of building a gun, 7mm but for what I want it might be cheaper to buy one from the factory, this is what I'm looking for if I build, Mcmillan stock with full bedding and pillar posts , krieger ss barrel 24" flutted, muzzle brake, timney trigger, Rem action with 3 way safety, not sure how much but probably over 2000$. Or should I buy a factory gun that most of the stuff I need is already on it? Now which factory gun, Weatherby accumark, Sako, Kimber looks good, or remington all in ss with black synthetic stocks. If anyone has gone done this road before any help is appreciated, and I'm sure I dont have all material listed for building one.
Thanks
Elmer

Ed Brown makes his guns with a 3 position safety and muzzle brakes, bedded mcmillans etc

Hill Country +2.

option B: check out the Hein Palouse Country models. $2500-$2800. He Hein will have their custom action, and be built just for you to your specs.

Rich
DRSS

I like the Kimbers and would not waste time and money on a so called custom if a synthetic stock is wanted. If the Kimbers not perfect just get it improved.

As to the muzzle brake I would not shoot one or even want to be around one. The blast will deafen anyone.

The modern soft Decelerator type pads has eliminated, in my opinion, the need for muzzle brakes on 7mm's.

I have customs and factory rifles. Yup, expensive and not so expensive. But I will tell you this...my 30-06 Weatherby Ultra-Lightweight is a damned good shooter, weighs under 7 lbs. with scope, sling and 5 rounds in the magazine. Hell, and it looks and handles good too. I paid $1000 NIB for it and it got lots of features custom rifles have, at a lot less money. If you want something that works, is accurate, handles well, is light, looks good, is less money and you don't want to wait...the Weatherby gets my vote. I also have one in the 338-06. When I was growing up these kinds of rifles were teenage dreams.

Big +1 on NO Muzzlebreaks! They should be banned from hunting. If you need to use one on the bench for load developement etc. OK but make sure you can take it off for hunting. Why loose your hearing many times faster just to have a little less recoil...............DJ

It depends on what you want the rifle for. Most factory rigs are more than adequate for big game hunting. I think everyone should have at least one custom rifle though, for me, that meant wood & blue steel but what ever floats your boat. Something like a Kimber or Dakota (if you can still get them) is a "tweener", semicustom job, but pretty nice. Muzzle brake on a 7mm? I have detachable for my .404jefferey that never gets used, even for bench work, just way to loud.

If you want a Krieger barrel, McMillan stock pillar bedded, based on a blueprinted donor action, and a trigger job, all put together by someone who is good at their trade, figure $1500-$2000, and anywhere in between at a minimum, and you can always spend more.

My current project is a .338 WinMag based on a MRC M1999 action. Dave Christman is truing and slicking up the action and installing the Shilen barrel. I gave $350 for the stainless M1999 action (charter program), $195.50 (a very good price) for the stainless Shilen barrel from Bruno's Shooters Supply (Barrel Blowout Sale), Dave Christman is charging me $450 convert the action into something you would expect from a member of the ACGG, including chambering, finishing, and installing the barrel to my specs. I'll have $1000.00 in the finished barreled action. That's a very small investment for what I'll have. Buying a McMillan stock and having it pillar bedded will put the finished rifle in the price range I suggested.

Yes, that's more than buying a factory rifle, even a top of the line factory offering. You get what you pay for.

Of course, you can always buy a factory rifle and you might just get lucky and find a real shooter. If it isn't quite there, lapping lugs, proper bedding, and a good trigger job may get you close enough for government work, all for a lot less than a custom. It really depends on what your goal is. For me, I prefer the custom route. Why? Just because.

I went thru this last year, I decided to buy a factory stick, Rem700 in .308, my first bolt gun, I have had a blast tweeking it, and shooting it, its .4moa, I'm .7moa, i figure when I get to .4, I'll get me a custom stick.

Brian

gosh - if you're gonna get a plastic stock why not try tonka

Sorry to be a peasant, but I just don't see the return on investment on a rifle that costs $2,000.00 or more...

It might impress some friends that like that sort of thing...

But a factory Remington or Savage shoots a lot better than most of their owners do...

we dwell in a society that values, how much money you sink into something.. over its practicality..

you get what you pay for only goes so far....
a 3 x 9 Leupold for $300.00 serves me as well, if not better than a $1500.00 Swarofski would in my book...

and I have handled MacMillan stocks., and I just don't see the darn value in the overpriced things...

I'd take a $375.00 rebarrel job from my local gunsmith here, than a $3,000.00 Kenny Jarret 'custom' barrel anyday...

But It's the individuals money, so I am far from going to say how he should spend it...

two sayings apply " If it is your money, and it makes you happy...."

the second " .. and a fool and his money are quickly parted"......

yeah I know, I am a peasant, but a happy peasant with some very accurate decent factory firearms.. that do just fine!

Very true seafire. The other thing is what are you looking for in a rifle? Most factory rifles shoot better than their owners can. Also, spending $2500 on a rifle doesn't guarantee it will shoot any better than a stock M700. Still, if it makes you happy, go for it. I have built one truly custom rifle from the action up. I'm very happy w/ the results, it's something I really could not have bought exactly like I wanted it. It's accurate, an exc. piece of wood to metal work by my gunsmith & only cost me a bit more than a retail factory M70. I doubt I would spend $2000 on a syn. stocked hunting rifle though, just doesn't seem worth it.

Without a doubt I agree with what several have said here... Most factory rifles will shoot better then the person shooting them...

That doesn't mean that there are those out there that are not simply superior marksmen but that most of us know how to shoot well and the factory rifles will fill the bill...

Though I am looking at a Weatherby Accumark, it has more to do with the Weatherby cartridge then it does the rifle manufacturer... They aren't cheap and for those that know what they are doing can easily put a custom together for similar money...

Buy a factory rifle that fits you well that already has the basics that you want... From there see how it shoots... If you find some things that don't suit you, have those tweaked or replaced with something that does.. You'll find you have a great shooter at that point for a decent price....

Just my opinion for what it's worth.

Ken....

It's entirely true that the return on investment for a custom-barreled factory rifle is better than for a custom rifle. By that reasoning, however, the return on investment on an unmodified factory rifle is superior to that of a custom-barreled rifle. The further away you get from a factory rifle (or possibly a surplus rifle), the more money you'll spend, and the less efficient the purchase.

The extra money won't necessarily buy better accuracy, either, so why ever spend money on customizing? If you look at it from a dollars perspective, the answer is "never."

There are reasons for spending the money. I have less time than I used to, so rifle that requires minimal load development is right for me. The hills are also steeper, so I like a lighter weight. I still like silky smooth actions and flawless appearance and functioning, though. I don't have time to shoot all the rifles I already own.

If it's a dollar decision, then a custom (or semi-custom) might not be right. I sold three rifles to fund the purchase of a New Ultra Light Arms 30-06, and for me it was the right decision; it might not be for others.

Jaywalker

elmerderr,best rifle regardless of price for the big 7 is a rem 700bdl.Another good choice is a sako 75.

I was going to get a new 260 rem, I wasn't sure which brand name. Then while I was cleaning out the room I saw my heavy barrel 243 mauser action setting there that I have owned for 5 years and it has 40 rounds thru it, and I said, voila, this is the start of my 260. I am having a poster on this site re barrel it. Just my choice probably could have went cheaper.

I just picked up a used push feed Win M70 with a nice wood stock for less than $400 in 7mm Remington Mag. The bluing is real thin over most of the rifle but it has a good bore and the trigger breaks like glass. The wood is a little dinged up but I can refinish the stock and get the barrel and acttion reblued plus mount a new scope on it and still be less than $1000 and have a semi custom looking rifle. Of course that isn't including my time but that is what these long winter nights are for.

Depends on what you really want. I've had a few custom rifles built, with results varying from completely satisfied to completely dissatisfied. I do have a couple of Kimbers now, a Montana, and one of their french walnut stocked .300 WSM's. I have found these rifles to be of such high quality for their intended purpose that I can see no reason to spend at least twice as much for a custom, to arrive at the same place. Mine are sub-moa shooters, balance and function is great, though both went back to the factory for feeding issues, and they are just really good looking classic american sporting rifles. Wouldn't trade them away any more than I would trade my custom Remington .358 STA.

Its nice to know you have at least one rifle in the rack that has squared and trued receiver, premium barrel with precise fit/chambering/crown, and properly bedded to a quality stock.Something that has as many variables as possible dealt with that would make you question why the rifle did not shoot accurate. Hopefully done by a small operation gunsmith that you can talk and discuss things with,Rather than a shopfront or email sales man.

But if your in more of a hurry,The weatherby ultralite std calibres is a very tempting rifle, just looked at one in 30.06 today,again. Little Kimber is nice but do prefer the lite Weatherby. In the back of my mind though, I would still like a rig that I know the detailed construction history of.

Woodjack,
I agree with your thoughts of having a nice squared and trued action rifle with premium barrel but on the other hand I have 2 factory rifles that I have bedded the actions on and adjusted the triggers. These rifles shoot .250 groups so I am afraid to let anyone tinker with them. What would I gain with $1500 in custom machining and barreling. Now if I had a factory rifle that shot poorly then I can see a huge gain but in my case custom work would be worthless.
My are Rem 700s by the way with varmint barrels.

It can be a tough call to some as to whether they just want a custom rifle or do they feel the need for a custom rifle in order to shoot good or just for confidence.

Have not read all posts, but to the OP, Weatherby is on sale at CDNN and I saw some good prices on all out 7/08, good barrels/stocks and overall seems to be a great value, other calibers too in many models, might get 'custom grade' components in a rifle ready to go, for WAY less than what you had thought, even lower than Sako.

CDNN in texas is the outfit

http://www.cdnninvestments.com/dowournewcat.html

Dwight,

By all means a man should be prepared to give a factory rifle a go(if hes happy with one) and improve it from there if required.
My brother currently has a stock std. M70ssClassic.300win that does around 1"(3 shots)with factory ammo. He wants more from it.
Im reasonably confident with reloads he will get what he wants.Probably not a bad idea to have it bedded at least.
My previous post is on how I ideally would like things done, but I do understand some folk have varying budgets or requirements and that any or all of that kind of work aint always neccessary. But given the choice and $$ I would have most or all of it done. Starting with a tuned receiver,custom tube,bedded. McMillan is not absolutely critical to me, but if the $ is there, I would add it to the formula.

eesh, my last factory rifle was a Sako TRG-S 338 Lapua (around 13 or so years ago). I gonna try the Ruger African in the 375 Ruger, I figure it'll get particular attention.

quote:

Or should I buy a factory gun that most of the stuff I need is already on it?

That's the crux of the matter, isn't it? If you would like to have EXACTLY what you want, it'll cost you. Two things about that, though - one, it's easy to rationalize going cheap or even criticize those who don't, and two, you don't have to justify your expenditures to anyone else. In my case, I've found that saving a little money but ending up with something that is ALMOST what I want leaves me with some feelings of dissatisfaction, so the extra money spent is well worth it.

If you don't want to spend the money up front for a full-blown custom, you could always get a Rem 700, then over time add the trigger, barrel, and lastly the stock. You won't start off with exactly the rifle that you want, but you should end up with it.

You need a good custom rifle.But to appreciate it you have to know how to use a rifle.You have to be a practced rifleman to deserve a custom rifle. If someone cannot fire a rifle offhand and shoot a paper plate 400yds away then why get a custom rifle when a factory rifle is what you deserve.

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
You need a good custom rifle.But to appreciate it you have to know how to use a rifle.You have to be a practced rifleman to deserve a custom rifle. If someone cannot fire a rifle offhand and shoot a paper plate 400yds away then why get a custom rifle when a factory rifle is what you deserve.

What?

I've met more people who've aquired a custom rifle that can't appreciate it because they are viewing it from a materialistic standpoint, than real riflemen who have sacrificed to own one.

I've seen guys with collections of fine arms that really had no business ever using them.

I don't get your opinion at all. Nate

you got to be a shooting ballerina to own a custom rifle,that is to be the true owner.if your not then it is destined for sale

HS Precision are too expensive for what they are imo

quote:

Originally posted by elmerdeer:
Thinking of building a gun, 7mm but for what I want it might be cheaper to buy one from the factory, this is what I'm looking for if I build, Mcmillan stock with full bedding and pillar posts , krieger ss barrel 24" flutted, muzzle brake, timney trigger, Rem action with 3 way safety, not sure how much but probably over 2000$. Or should I buy a factory gun that most of the stuff I need is already on it? Now which factory gun, Weatherby accumark, Sako, Kimber looks good, or remington all in ss with black synthetic stocks. If anyone has gone done this road before any help is appreciated, and I'm sure I dont have all material listed for building one.
Thanks
Elmer

If price is an issue.....don't even think of a custom build.

At the shop next door is a M-70 270 Win like new for $425 with very pretty wood.....a Rem 700 synthetic $300 in superb condition.....a M-70 300 H&H in NIB condition with Redfield scope for $800 and such buys are not just to be found here!!!!

If you look to a custom, a McMillan stock alone will run $400......a tricked out Mauser action will run well over $500 and a barrel blued and installed with iton sights will run about $500 and more.

Folks shouldn't even consider a custom unless they have a spare $3,500 laying around.....and few folks I know have that.

I had a custom 404 Jeffery made. It is a great rifle with custom made stock, engraving, the sights I chose. Add 3 years to get this all done. A bad story with a happy ending.

You can walk into a Cabelas today and buy a CZ NIB in 404 Jeffery for less than half of what I paid and you can drive it home today or tomorrow.

I do not regret my custom made rifle. I would have been happy with the CZ.

Gasman summed it up perfectly:

Buy a factory rifle that has 'good bones'. Put a quality scope on it and see what you think of it.

If its not good enough then you can go from there. It will likely make you happy right from the start.

It would be more satisfying in the end to be the one who decided what mods where made to the rifle and in what order. Almost as good as doing the work yourself. The rifle will be more special that way.


.

You can do a syn stock remmy for around $1500.00
action: $300
barrel job: $500
McM stock: $450
Coating: $250
take a look at some of the high end production rifles and you are not to far off. I have a 7-08 in the above config and it shoots 120TSX just under .5". I consider that not a bad investment. I've had factory rifles that have shot under 1", but if I'm going on a trip, a custom gives me a little extra confidence that doesn't hurt. I'm sending off a 1910 Mex Mauser to Stu, that one will be alot more. There is a certain satisfaction in specing out a nice custom. I consider rifles tools but as the saying goes, "LIfes to short to hunt with an ugly gun" lol

Look for a Sako Fiberclass (McMillan stock) in 7mm mag and you will be done. They frequently pop up on Guns America for $700-$1100. There's currently a 270 and 416 Rem available. I think the new Kimber 8400 also would meet your specifications. Lou