I was looking over some handloading data, both from manuals new and old.. along with my own handloading data notes...

you really have to give the developers of both of those cartridges some real credit... being designed without the aid of computer technology and other modern high tech equipment, it is amazing how efficient these cartridges are!

Especially in ratio to performance vs powder used..

I do feel each case is more efficient in the long run that say the 308 case... because in like sized actions, the Mauser cases still can wring out a little more velocity, while comparing the Mauser cases to say an 06 sized case, the amount of powder increases vs velocity increase returns, still lean toward the Mauser case as the most balanced...

Loading either with the heavy weight bullets launched at the speeds they originally had when designed in the 1890s, it is amazing their game taking ability, in ratio to their amount ( or lack thereof) of felt recoil to the shooter..

Try a load of 30 grains of RL 7 with a 160 grain RN in an old 29 inch 6.5 x 55.. it feels like you are shooting a 22.250...

same load in a 7 x 57 with a 175 grain RN...

while both have MV close to what the similar period 30/30 designed cartridge had... no shooter that has been around, could compare the European Mauser cartridges and the 30/30 as being anywhere near equal...

you really have to give those folks some real kudos and credit.. they sure designed a very efficient and highly useful cartridge in either back in those days...

even in today's world, that is why both hang on, in the face of so many more recent developments...

Imagine what those guys could come up with access to today's modern technology and computers!!!!

You can say similar stuff about the 9.3x62. An efficient little thing.

/

quote:

you really have to give the developers of both of those cartridges some real credit... being designed without the aid of computer technology and other modern high tech equipment, it is amazing how efficient these cartridges are!

another thing, hunting with them gives a singular satisfaction due to the age of the design, history, etc.

I hunt with a 7X57, and always stop after hitting the game I'm hunting and look at the rifle for a moment, kind of like a trucker walking away from his semi in the parking lot, he always turns around to give it a glance.

just too bad that there is such a limited selections of 7x57 factory rifles(i don't of any)

Dear Seafire2 and Alf:

As a former history major and a one summer underwater archaeologist in Port Royal, Jamaica, I have learned to never underestimate our ancestors. Look at the Pantheon in Rome, and its dome that should have collapsed, but didn't because of Roman invented honeycomb construction.

As far as the original 7x57, I mostly agree, but in 7x57 Ackley Improved format as it stands in front of me on my reloading bench, well, now I see perfection.

Sincerely,

Chris Bemis

Alf -

I agree pretty much 4x4 with your post, both as to guns, and military officers as a genre.

Far too many "modern folk" appear to believe that everything worth while is the product of the last couple of generations (mainly theirs' of course). In fact, quite the opposite is true in my opinion. The old timers built things out of almost nothing that were every bit as well made and precise as modern goods, because they used and tried to perfect the single tool they all had....their brain! We all have that tool too, but many of us don't seem to grasp that it needs use and development and skilled discipline to do its best for us.

They also understood the empirical approach as a route to developing sound theory, instead of developing the theory first then trying to force the facts to fit it. So, they developed both basic and advanced theory for darned near everything, long before our generations. We have reached for the stars by standing on their shoulders.

As to computers? Well, the most basic law of all computers is GIGO. Computers don't develop theory, think, or understand. They process tons of information quickly, but HOW they process the data is according to and proportional to the knowledge of the persons who write the code. Very large complex computers may accumulate and process knowledge in a way which approximates a parallel to thinking, but totally lacking of insight, intuition, and those leaps of imagination which lead to fundamental progress.

In support of your thesis, it is probably worth while to note that ALL of our military academies have (and are commited to) degree programs in math & engineering pretty much over and above all else through the first degree level. That's one of the primary reasons West Pointers, for instance, tend to hold themselves separate from ROTC or OCS officers. The Pointers have earned "hard science" degrees rather than fuzzy-wuzzy soft psuedo-science working tickets.

Sorry if that is overstated, but it is intentional, to make a point to think about. We can all tone it down later, if need be.

Anyway, thanks Seafire and Alf for reminding us all of things we should be daily aware of in our hobby.

quote:

Originally posted by Alberta Canuck:
Alf -
Anyway, thanks Seafire and Alf for reminding us all of things we should be daily aware of in our hobby.

U2 AC roger

quote:

Originally posted by Steffen-9.3:
just too bad that there is such a limited selections of 7x57 factory rifles(i don't of any)

Steffen.
Blaser offer rifles in 7x57 and 7x57R

quote:

Originally posted by seafire2:
I was looking over some handloading data, both from manuals new and old.. along with my own handloading data notes...

you really have to give the developers of both of those cartridges some real credit... being designed without the aid of computer technology and other modern high tech equipment, it is amazing how efficient these cartridges are!

Especially in ratio to performance vs powder used..

I do feel each case is more efficient in the long run that say the 308 case... because in like sized actions, the Mauser cases still can wring out a little more velocity, while comparing the Mauser cases to say an 06 sized case, the amount of powder increases vs velocity increase returns, still lean toward the Mauser case as the most balanced...

Loading either with the heavy weight bullets launched at the speeds they originally had when designed in the 1890s, it is amazing their game taking ability, in ratio to their amount ( or lack thereof) of felt recoil to the shooter..

Try a load of 30 grains of RL 7 with a 160 grain RN in an old 29 inch 6.5 x 55.. it feels like you are shooting a 22.250...

same load in a 7 x 57 with a 175 grain RN...

while both have MV close to what the similar period 30/30 designed cartridge had... no shooter that has been around, could compare the European Mauser cartridges and the 30/30 as being anywhere near equal...

you really have to give those folks some real kudos and credit.. they sure designed a very efficient and highly useful cartridge in either back in those days...

even in today's world, that is why both hang on, in the face of so many more recent developments...

Imagine what those guys could come up with access to today's modern technology and computers!!!!

I agree, and must say I believe the same praise should be applied to the original, the 8X57mm cartridge which was designed by the German Army Rifle Commission for use in the Gew 1888, and later necked up, down, & sideways!