howdy folks. i just bought a cz527 in 7.62x39(.311 bore). my plan is to shoot factory ammo for a while and then reload the brass. what i need to know is if remington and winchester ammo is loaded with .308 or .311 dia. bullets. i want to stick with the proper bullet diameter so if i have to i'll just buy the components and make some. but i'd rather shoot up about 5 boxes of store bought stuff(i'm in a little bit of a hurry to go and play )

thanks for any information

i believe the US stuff is 308, but the 308 and 311 seem to be pretty interchangable.

I may be guessing here but I've heard before that some measurements are based on the groove diameter and not the bore... You'de probably find that the bullet diameters are the same between the two...

Ken....

budiceale, I'm pretty sure that the CZ527 follows the European practice of boring for the .311" bullet.

I'm not aware of any European arms maker that uses a .308 bore with the 7.62x39 chambering. That's an American (Ruger) practice.

In any case, a buddy of mine has a CZ527 and he says that the .311" diameter bullets deliver the best accuracy.

Remington and Winchester use .310" diameter bullets in their factory rounds.

What are you shooting at. For varmints there is a 123 gr V-max that shoots great. All the majors have 123 gr spirepoints. Sierra has a 150 gr pro hunter with a .310 diameter that works good also.

quote:

Originally posted by Moorepower:
Sierra has a 150 gr pro hunter with a .310 diameter that works good also.

Actually Sierra bullets are .311. and they have a 125gr Pro Hunter as well.

quote:

Originally posted by Moorepower:
Sierra has a 150 gr pro hunter with a .310 diameter that works good also.

The Sierra 150 gr. pro-hunter (#2300) is actually .311" diameter. It is very accurate in the 7.62x39....... but you give up about 200fps of velocity compared to lighter 123-130gr. bullets.

I have a set of RCBS dies with .308 AND .311 expanders gathering dust if you are looking.

quote:

Originally posted by budiceale:
howdy folks. i just bought a cz527 in 7.62x39(.311 bore). my plan is to shoot factory ammo for a while and then reload the brass. what i need to know is if remington and winchester ammo is loaded with .308 or .311 dia. bullets. i want to stick with the proper bullet diameter so if i have to i'll just buy the components and make some. but i'd rather shoot up about 5 boxes of store bought stuff(i'm in a little bit of a hurry to go and play )

thanks for any information

It seems to me that the original Russian specs for the 7.62X54R barrels were:
BORE: .300"
GROOVE: .310"

And we know some of these Russkys were as large as .314" in the groove.

I am not sure of the original specs of the 7.62X39mm, but I assume the Russians made no changes from the old Moisin-Nagant specs.

So, strictly speaking, the SPECIFICATIONS for the BORES were never .311", even though many may have been made that large or larger. Now, as to BULLET diameter. I am not sure what the 7.62X54Rmm or 7.62X39mm bullet diameters were as made by the Russians. I have used Sierra .308" bullets in my CZ 527 which is supposed to be a .311", (I have not slugged it) and they shoot really well. It may be that they "swage up" to fit the .311" groove, but they shoot well!

i appreciate the input. i emailed czusa and they say that thier rifles are designed for .311 bullets. what i need to know is if the 7.62x39 shells loaded by remington and winchester are loaded with .311 bullets or .308 bullets.

thanks

7.62x39 using .308 bullets vs .310-.311

The rifle is a CZ527 carbine topped with a 3x9x40 redfield accutrac scope. The bore measures .300 land to land and .3105 in the grooves

The ammo was loaded with 150 gr Sierra soft points 10 rds of .308 and 10 rds of the same bullet sized .311. Cases were Remington CCI 400 , The powder was 23.5grs of Re-7 with a COL of 2.310

It was about 65 degrees today with a light varible breeze of 15 mph

Shot string 1
.308 bullets

1851
1826
1852
1827
1846
***************
Shot string 2
.311 bullets

1935
1904
1937
1912
1925
****************

Shot string 3
.311 bullets

1953
1888 !?
1915
1932
1925
***************

shot string 4
.308 bullets

1852
1855
1869
1844
1873

All velocities were taken at 25 feet.

As you can see there is very little diffrence in group size. About the only real measurable diffrence in using the .308 dia bullets is that they are somewhat slower in the FPS department.

Of course your mileage may vary.

quote:

what i need to know is if the 7.62x39 shells loaded by remington and winchester are loaded with .311 bullets or .308 bullets.

.310 you can even buy the component bullets....BUT the Remington ammo I bought expressly for the brass was the worst shooting ammo I've ever fired in this rifle. 8" 5 shot groups.

I've shot every brand of x39 imaginable through my CZ527 and I've come to the conclusion that you will not find a better load than Wolf's 154grn offering. This stuff is accurate and hard hitting 2200 FPS

Anyone with a 7.62x39 bolt gun...do yourself a favor before it is too late. Go over to www.auctionarms.com and do a search on Lapua 7.62. You will find a seller named Skeeterbob selling 30 round boxes of match grade ammo for $10.00 a box of 30. Lapua brass is the best in the world. The brass alone is worth what he is getting for loaded ammo. This is THE best quality 7.62x39 ammo going.

This is three shots from my Ruger 20" stainless. I have a CZ and it shoots this ammo about the same...




You can't buy the Wincester componants and load it yourself for this...

He is bringing me and my friends a second load of ammo next week...

Bob

quote:

Originally posted by RJM:
Lapua brass is the best in the world. The brass alone is worth what he is getting for loaded ammo.


Bob

Here is a link to some Lapua 7.62x39 Brass for $23/100. I know it's not loaded ammo, but $23/100 is a good price for New Lapua Brass.

http://www.superiorshooterssupply.com/Print_Catalog_Lis...Code=9&Print=CatLine

For 7.62x39 I prefer the Remington brass over anything else, due to the small rifle primer. I really feel this cartridge is overprimed with LR primers

quote:

Originally posted by Krochus:
For 7.62x39 I prefer the Remington brass over anything else, due to the small rifle primer. I really feel this cartridge is overprimed with LR primers

The problem with Rem Brass is they do not sell it as a component any longer.
What do you mean by "Over Primed"?
Thanks

Overprimed in that the milder primers give both better velocity uniformity and accuracy. That a Large rifle primer just has too much brisance for such a small case. This is the reason that the benchrest cartridges based on 7.62x39 all use small primers.

You should try them sometime! I don't think you'll be disappointed

quote:

Originally posted by Krochus:


You should try them sometime! I don't think you'll be disappointed

I have a couple hundred Remington cases laying around and some 6 1/2, 7 1/2, 205M and WSR primers. I'll load some up and see how they shoot, thanks.

What would you recommend for a LR primer for this little case?

Honestly I have little preference for one SR primer over another they're all pretty good. But given the ones you list I would go with the federals

quote:

Originally posted by Krochus:
Honestly I have little preference for one SR primer over another they're all pretty good. But given the ones you list I would go with the federals

Thanks, I'll start with the Federals.

I have a over a thousand Lapua Brass for my 7.62x39. Lapua takes LR primers. I was asking what LR primer you would recommend, One with the least amount of "Brisance".

Thanks

quote:

I have a over a thousand Lapua Brass for my 7.62x39. Lapua takes LR primers. I was asking what LR primer you would recommend, One with the least amount of "Brisance".

Quite honestly if accuracy is your main goal I wouldn't recommend a LR primer at all.

I do recall seeing some charts with primers listed according to how hot they are.

American made 7.62x39 ammo uses .310 diameter bullets although it would not surprise me to find someone using .311. Either is fine. I've tried .308 bullets and got significantly worse groups in my CZ.

I got atrocious accuracy from the Win ball, and some of the milsurp. The culprit is the extra hard primer used to prevent slamfires in SKSs. CZ is aware of the problem, and a phone call will get you a free overpower firing pin spring. The new spring cut group size with the problem ammo by half and more.

thanks to all for the input. i didn't know that remington ammo had small primers. i'll buy some remingtom ammo tomorrow and start shooting.

again, thanks