We have hunted thicker timber for elk 2 of the last 3 years and I'm considering going with a shorter quicker pointing rifle for 20-80 yard brief opportunities, probably not a bolt action. At least 30-06 w/200 grain stopping power preferably more. I need at least a low power scope on it with my old eyes and still want to reach out to 300 yards if needed. Looking for suggestions on rifle / scope combinations for dark timber hunting that meet the criteria.

300 yards and not a bolt gun...changes the choices a bit. Lever guns are great, but usually limited to calibers that aren't adequate to 300 yards. Here's a couple thoughts:

Browning BLR in 325 WSM (about $900)

Browning BAR in 338 Win Mag About $800)

Kreighoff Semprio in 375 Ruger(about $4,500)

BLR in .358 Win.

I like the BLR 358 Idea and would throw out a couple more. Remington 760 in 35 whelen, a Rem. or Ruger in 350 mag, or find a 338 mag bolt gun and cut the barrel to 20". I happen to have a nice ruger in 350 rem mag for sale. Good luck.

I use a Model 1895M in 450 Marlin for heavy timber in my native CO. It works well. I've also used a 350 Rem Mag and a 9.3x62 Mauser. All work well. If you want to reach out to 300 yards, the 9.3 would be the best of the 3 I have.

But, I've also shot elk at less than 20 yards with a 7mm Mag which is my open country rifle. It killed the elk just as good up close as it does at a distance.

I've used the 7 Mag here and in Colorado for 30+ years and yes it kills them at 11 yards just as dead as at 300. I love mine and it shoots very well out way past where I'm comfortable shooting game and I'm good with it on running elk in the open too. The issue is in the thick timber it is a little slow to deploy compared to some of the good suggestions so far where being able to make that snap shot at 40 yards means a few hundred lbs of tasty dinners. I have a Remington 375 H&H that is collecting dust and thought I should turn it into something useful before hunting season. I hadn't considered a 358 Winchester because it seems so old fashioned but it might work well. I like the Whelan idea and the 325 WSM in BAR or BLR. Is there something else out there that fills the bill better? Thanks for the suggestions so far.

30-06 in a Mod. 760 w/ 18" barrel. The scope would be a 2-7 power Redding. Easy to pull from a saddle scabbard. roger

Look for a Remington 7600 carbine, there's nothing better for thick woods hunting. I've got two, a .30-06 and a .35 Whelen that I shortened.

I know where there's a beauttiful Remington Model 6 (special edition of the Model 760 or 7600) in 30-06. Spend $100 or so to have it cut and crowned...made to carbine length. This one is a beauty...$650 I think it was.

338 marlin? BLR in 358

It is really more of picking the proper sighting tool then the rilfe

I would go with 1.5 x5 or so scope keeping it on the lowest power.

Upper range is planty to make a good shot o a elk at 300 yards.

Absolute DITTO for the Remy 760/7600.

Trying to have it all?

For the really thick stuff I love lever guns and my pick would probably be the ancient but effective 45-70.

When you throw the 300 yard thing in, I'd lean toward a carbine length Rem auto with a low power variable maybe with a center dot, or even leave the irons on it. Why not an EVIL BLACK rifle in .308? Maybe a SOCOM or AR10 equivelent?

How it fits will effect your ability to shoulder it quickly. Loose the rubber pad, they hang up on clothes, maybe even fit it just a smidge short on LOP.

I'm very partial to a 30/06 and 180 grain bullets for elk and I really like my bolt action guns. Scope a 30/06 with a 3-9 or a 2-7 and you are covered from 15 yards out to 400.
Get to know your bolt gun really well and learn to shoot and run the bolt without taking your face off of it and you'll be about as fast as a lever gun and still have that longer range capability.
I'm sure others will disagree but it works for me and I elk hunt every year.

There is no better factory gun for the average man that will fly to the shoulder, point where you want, provide a great cheek weld on a low mounted 1x4 Scope than the old Remington 760. Lot's of them available in 30-06 for around $450 in great shape. They also shoot very well. Then you can load whatever bullet you want starting for me with the 180 and up to 220 RN in both factory ammo and handloaded. No need to look for a carbine length, the rifle length with 22" barrel is just fine.
Good hunting!

There is nothing wrong with a bolt action 358 Win. Build it on a short action with about a 20 in barrel. Put on a decent 1.5-5 power or a 2-7 power scope with a wide field of view. The 358 with either 200 or 225 gr bullets stops large game all out of proportion to its size. If you think you need more power there are a couple other choices. My next choice would be a std length bolt in 9.3x62. A good 250 gr bullet (Barnes X are great as is the 250 Accubond).Third choice 35 whelan forth choice is a 338-06.

9.3x74R in a double possibly?

I would go with a custom Mauser with 24" barrel in .300 H&H using either 220gr or 200gr TSX or similar bullet construction. Have the stock modified Rigby style or go with lightweight synthetic.

Put a lightweight scope like a Swarovski 3x9x36 Z3 and you're set.

The obvious choice is a Browning Short-trac in .325 WSM.

I have a Short-trac in 7mm WSM, a BLR in .325 WSM and a Remington 673 in .350 RM. The 673 is crazy accurate and feels great, but the Short-track feels very good, if you don't over scope it. The BLR is a take down model, and I put an LER scope on it, so I could break it down without resighting in; the LER scope is plenty effective, but ruins the natural balance of the rifle.

BLR 450 Marlin. Loaded with Barnes 300 grain SOCOM bullets. Put a 1-6x24 Vortex Razor, or a 1-6x24 Leupold VX-6 on it and be ready for anything.

FN-Browning o/u double rifle in 9,3x74R + Swaro 1,25x24. Most efficient but costly.


Much less expensive and even better for longer distance shots. Blaser R93 in 9,3x62 + Swaro 1,25x24.

I'm with Andre. My Blaser R8 in 9.3x62 would get the nod.

Marlin 1895 Cowboy in 45-70 equipped with a flip up ladder rear barrel sight from a Winchester 1873. Mine is setup like this and it will easily reach 300 yards and more. A lot more.

I would look for a Ruger bolt gun with the 20 inch barrel in 338 Ruger and put a 1x4 Trijicon scope on it.

Years ago for hunting the big Roosevelt bulls in the deep dark Pacific NW coastal forests I put a 35 Whelen together on a M98 for a hunting friend. 22 inch Shilen. Stuck it in a cheapie B&C fiberglass stock. Topped with a 2X7 Leupold. This rifle has taken several Elk from under 40 yards in the dark timber to over 250 yards on the clear cuts.

My rifle is a 338 Win Mag on a Mark X, Pacific Research stock, 2x7, a good all around NW Elk rifle.

Don't go overboard on scope power. They call it dark timber for a reason.

Another friend uses a 45-70 Guide gun, he is a dark timber specialist. Rear Williams aperture sight with the ivory ring aperture.

Good Day,

I have used a 35 Whelen for most of my woods elk and Bear hunting for the last 20 years. It simply gets the job done. It is a Reminington with synthetic stock 22" barrel, 2x7 scope on QL mounts, open sights for backup. I load mostly 250 gr mag tip or round nose bullets for the woods.

If you are set on a lever gun look at the 1895 winchester(Japchester)new model and have it rebarreled or rebored to an 06 based round (35 whelen,375 whelen, 30-06 etc.) or give the 405 winchester a try.

Just some food for thought.

BD

I'll go a step farther. A Remy 760/7600 rebored to 338/06 with Barnes 210 or 225gr. TTSX. Done deal. No elk will walk away from that.

I do all my elk hunting with bolt guns chambered for 358 Win, 375 H&H or 9.3x62. For strictly heavy cover, the 358 gets the nod.

.338 Ruger Compact Magnum if you can find one.

Thanks so much for the input - there are some answers that I wouldn't have thought of on my own. For the guys who think it has to be a bolt action - I've killed 10 elk with a bolt action and couldn't be happier with it in open country. But I know a longer barreled 7 mag or 300 Wby is not the fastest thing in the woods.

I can make my old 1894 Winchester almost as fast as an auto and it points like a dream so I'm more likely to look for a BAR or BLR in 325WSM or 338 depending on what kind of deal I can find. Unfortunately I've never been as fast with a pump action, for some reason that left hand just seems to linger on the stock for me so a 7600 makes a lot of sense but not my strength. I'd like a 35 Whelan or a 9.3x 62/74 but they aren't readily at a reasonable price in the actions I'm considering.

I like the scope suggestions, I was looking at a Sightron S3 in a low power variable with a 50mm objective. I'd probably consider a lighted reticle fro a dark timber gun although I tend to shy away from things that depend on batteries. Any 1.5 or 2 power to 7 would be plenty for an elk sized animal.

quote:

Originally posted by LJS:
I would look for a Ruger bolt gun with the 20 inch barrel in 338 Ruger and put a 1x4 Trijicon scope on it.

I second this. I love mine, shooting 210gr TTSX bullets and topped with a Leupold 2-7x VX-R. I think its the perfect dark timber elk rifle.

quote:

I'll go a step farther. A Remy 760/7600 rebored to 338/06 with Barnes 210 or 225gr. TTSX. Done deal. No elk will walk away from that.

I have that exact setup and would be my choice.

But you do not prefer pumps, just like I do not prefer lever actions.

Just handle a bunch of rifles, and it will pick you. MAny cartidges will work. If you get a scope with a Long range/dot type reticle, it would be much easier to shoot longer distances. You can go out and check the reticle marks for actual distances with your cartridge/load.

Benelli R1 is now produced in .338 Win. Mag. put a Leupold 1.75x6 on it and go hunt.

I do all my elk hunting with bolt guns chambered for .30-40 Krag, .30-06, .30 Gibbs, .257 AI, 7mm Rem mag, and .300 Weatherby. Most of my elk fell to my .30 Gibbs, and many of them were in the dark timber.

In 40+ years of elk hunting, I only took one "snap" shot, and that bull also fell to my .30 Gibbs.

All of my rifles except the Krag had scopes on them, and most shots were taken at the scopes lowest power.

I've never been in a situation elk hunting where I wished I had a shorter barreled rifle so that I could swing it faster or easier.

Snowman + 1.

Chapuis 9,3x74R. Weighs about 7.3 pounds, put a Ultrdot on it if you must but I have taken moose with mine out to 287 yards with the stock iron sights.

quote:

I've never been in a situation hunting where I wished I had a shorter barreled rifle so that I could swing it faster or easier.

I only have about 30+ years under my belt. I can honestly say the exact same thing.

But I do have guns that seem to carry easier and handle better. Those guns tend to get hunted more, while the others are limited to range rifles or moved down the road.

That is where personal preferences come into play. And nothing anyone says can help a person decide what they prefer, just gives options for them to try.

If you think you dont want to shoot a bolt gun check out a remington auto in 35 whelen they come in wood and sinthetic your 1st shot is worth 100 second shots Kevin 35 whelen AI bolt gun shooter

For the black timber and elk, nothing beats a 55 lb. longbow and a 300 gr. arrow tipped by a really sharp broadhead. You need to get real close!!!!!!!!!

http://forums.accuratereloadin...2711043/m/2301064581

Here you go 358 BLR just the ticket 4 sale here

quote:

Originally posted by SDhunter:

quote:

I've never been in a situation hunting where I wished I had a shorter barreled rifle so that I could swing it faster or easier.

I only have about 30+ years under my belt. I can honestly say the exact same thing.

But I do have guns that seem to carry easier and handle better. Those guns tend to get hunted more, while the others are limited to range rifles or moved down the road.

That is where personal preferences come into play. And nothing anyone says can help a person decide what they prefer, just gives options for them to try.

Options:

Try pulling a 26 to 30 in barreled rfile out of a saddle scabbard. Than try it with a 18" barreled mod 760 with no front sight and a low mounted scope.

Try sqeezing through oak brush or river bottom Tamaracks with the long barrel as opposed to the 18" barrel.
roger

Old age is a high price to pay for maturity!!! Some never pay and some pay and never reap the reward. Wisdom comes with age! Sometimes age comes alone..