I am considering rebarreling one of my Sakos to 340 WBY. Looking at my reloading manuals, it appears that there is little to no difference between the two. Do I have to shoot factory ammo to see any difference? How much, if any, freebore is recommended? I have a 338 already but the 340 has always interested me. I will be using a 26" Shilen barrel. Any opinions would be greatly appreciated. Dr. Lou

The manual's generally skew the difference between the two as they give very conservative data for the 340 owing to the Wby freebore which is sometimes absent in custom rifles. The 340 will generall run 150 to 200 fps ahead of the 338 WM. If you have a 338 WM already and are willing to tote a 26" barrel the 340 is probably for you. My friends Custom 340 with a 26" HS tube runs 3,000 fps with 250 gr. Wby Factory ammo

I have owned and shot both extensively. The .338 is a great chambering, but the .340 Wby is awesome indeed. I cannot comment on the factory ammo, but for the reloader the .340 is really fun to work with. I have two now and used one for a Moose hunt to Alaska in 1999 and couldn't have been any more pleased with its performance when crunch time came. A 250 grain Nosler Partition at 2950 fps did it job with one well placed shot. You will not regret the change. Good shooting.

Why would anyone chamber to 340 Weatherby when the 338 RUM is available? Brass is cheaper, the RUM is 100 fps faster at the same pressures, and the 338 RUM is so inherently accurate that it is now used exclusively for bullet testing by 3 major manufacturers.

My choice would also be the 338rum

Well now, if we are talking choices, mine is the .338 Lapua, which I also shoot. Hey, the .340's have been an excellent round long before the .338 Rum's were thought about, and I will certainly not knock them, by the same token, don't knock the tried and true .340. How much more powder do you load to get that extra 100 fps. Good shooting.

338-378.
Or, if you've got the plums, 338 Yogi or some other improved Lapua, get rid of all that wasted taper.Realize, we don't have the same parameters and restriction as the military guys who designed the case.
The Yogi is supposedly out of control with a 30" bbl.

I considered the 338 RUM but I didn't want to mess with the magazine and feed rails. How much work would the action need if I went with the 338 RUM?

Doctor Lou,

I have shot the various 338's quite extensively for more than 20 years. There is no question in my mind that if I had a long mag. action and a 26" barrel that I would chamber it for the 340 before any of the other 338's.

I have no idea why the loading manuals are so skiddish about this one because it can be easily loaded to give a 250 gr. bullet a full 200 fps over the 338 Win. It uses the standard mag. boltface and components are readily available.

Dr. Lou:

I only have and use one big game rifle in Alaska, and it is a .338WM. As others have told you, the .340, .330 Dakota, .338RUM, and a few other .33's stretch a .338WM's "punch" a little farther, since most of the "super" .338's generate from 150 to 200 fps greater than the .338WM with the same bullet. The 200 fps advantage, however, is the result of the longer barrels used in the super .33's, coupled to greater amount of powder in their cases.

Before you decide on which .338 to buy, my advise would be for you to shoot a .338WM with factory rounds and 250-grain bullets, then wait a day or two before you shoot a .338RUM (or whichever super .33 you can). Again, shoot factory ammo with 250-grain bullets. This way you can have an idea on the additional recoil generated by the bigger .33 brother. Don't forget to take into consideration stock design and rifle weight, since these factors help taming recoil.

To give you an idea of the power generated by my .338WM and factory rounds with 230-grain FS bullets: A few years ago, there was a moose standing broadside to me, peacefully reaching for some birch branches. The moose was 200 yards away, and it died before it realized what hit it. The FS, fired low on the chest broke the near shoulder bone, clipped the top of the heart, broke the far shoulder bone, then exited.

Most of the moose I have shot have dropped to a well placed shot, and two years ago I shot another with a 250-grain Partition bullet from Federal HE ammo. This ammo and bullet generates nearly 2,800 fps (2,770 from my rifle, at the muzzle). The rest of my moose have been shot with handloaded ammo, from 230-grain FS to 250-grain Swift.

Summary: The .338WM is one of the favorite cartridges with Alaska hunters, because it generates a punch great enough for any Alaska game. However, one of the super .33's is just more of a good thing. See...any cartridge that allows the use of .33 bullets benefits from the great BC and SD that these bullets provide. Perhaps that's the reason why all kinds of .338's have become increasingly popular in the last few years, and all bullet manufacturers are aware of this popularity.

[ 10-19-2003, 04:13: Message edited by: Ray, Alaska ]

I have a Ruger 77 with 24" barrel in 338 Win Mag, a custom Rem 700 in 340 Wby with 26" gain twist barrel, and a Sako TRG-S in 338 Lapua Magnum, also with a 26" barrel. In my rifles, with 250 gr bullets, the velocities run like this;
338 WM - 2715 fps.
340 WBY - 2950 fps.
338 Lap - 2970 fps.

As the 338 RUM is the ballistic twin of the Lapua, I wouldn't expect much more from it then what I'm already seeing. I'm building a 338/378 WBY, so next spring I'll have more info, but at this time, I really don't see any substantial difference between the latter two. My personal favourite of them, is the 340 Wby. Unless you're on a testosterone kick, it will do the job very, very well. FWIW - Dan

Doctor Lou,

I have to go along with "MARK H. YOUNG". I have both the .338 Win. Mag. and the .340 Weatherby. To me the ammo availability of the .338 Win. Mag. gives it the edge over all the other .338 caliber cartridges. Seeing that Remington's own figures are showing slumping sales of their .338 RUM(they are cutting back on the number of models they are chambering for that round) I wouldn't want to bet on that cartridge’s longevity. My opinion I would stay with the .338 Win. Mag.. Lawdog

The .338winnie is a great hammer. The .340wby. is just a great, bigger hammer. I would go .340 in the long action. Brass will always be available, even if you have to fireform .375h&h.

I like the 340 over the 338. It will put a 300 grain Woodleigh out at the same velocity as the 250 grain from a 338.

As to the RUM etc. just stuff for Pilgrims. Cartridges without a need nor purpose.

Mickey,
The 300 Woodleigh in a 340 might turn inside out at that velocity, because it sure does flatten out at 338 Win. velocity..That would be my concern I think but I could be wrong...It sure is a real hammer in the 338..I have used it a lot, but only in the 338 Win..then again it may work just fine in the 340, after all it is a woodleigh.....

The .338 calibre is a favorite of mine...all of them!
With that said, I think it would be almost impossible to beat the 338RUM in a Sendero.
IMHO: factory rig, plentiful brass, and proven accuracy. Not trying to take anything away from the others, but these are "trumph" cards that can't be denied.

I have chambered, and shot most of the 338's:
330-06, 338 Win, 338 Dakota, 340 Wea, 338 Lapua, 338 Ultra, several versions of 338 Improved Lapua, and 338-378.

Several key points must be considered before one takes the plunge:

Exactly what will the rifle be used for?

What ranges?

What is the recoil tolerance of the shooter?

What is the reloading experience of the shooter?

What is the shooting experience of the shooter?

Will there ever be a need to purchase ammo if your box of handloads is lost on the way to the hunt?

How will the rifle be constructed? (a 7 pound mountain rifle, or a 400 yard open country elk rifle, or something in between?)

Here are two 338-378 stories:

I built a 10 pound 338-378 for an experienced elk hunter, for open country use. 27 inch barrel. Leupold Tactical 30 mm tube 4-1/2to14X with the big turrents for easy corrections. This rifle made a one shot kill at a lazered 441 yards on a 370 point Oregon bull. 225 grain Jensen bonded core (remember this bullet?) Elk never moved. This rifle was passed around three other hunters on the same trip after they saw the 441 yard one shot kill. (They were using 300 Win mags) This rifle made 4 one shot kills on that hunt, all 6 point bulls from 331 to 370 points.

Built another 338-378 for a local hunter. 26 inch barrel, shooting 250 partitions. 4-1/2to14X Leupold. Weighed 9-1/2 pounds. The hunter shot a nice 4 point bull elk at about 40 yards. Bullet only penetrated about 3 inches into the shoulder. Elk ran off a few hundred yards, second shot was about 250 yards, bullet made full penetration and was found under the off side hide.

And, a 338 Win Mag story: Roosevelt 4 point bull, 400 plus yards, one shot through the top of the heart. Bullet completely penetrated. Elk went about 20 yards and dropped. Swift A-Frame, cannot recall the weight. The rifle? A stock M70, 24 inch barrel, 3-9X Leupold.

So, it all boils down to: A rifle the shooter can accurately shoot, with a good bullet, put into the right place.

Push some bullets at too high a velocity and they will not hold up.

My 338 is a 338 Win Mag, on a Mauser action. Weighs 7 pounds with scope.

And, one final note: By the number of brakes folks ask me to put on their 340 Weatherby's, 338 Ultra's and 338-378's, I would say that recoil should be a factor in anyone's decision. True, some folks can take a lot of recoil, but if one is somewhat sensitive to recoil, then be careful in the cartridge selection. Brakes on hunting rifles are very loud and will damage your hearing!!!

[ 10-19-2003, 08:33: Message edited by: John Ricks ]

John --- I agree with your statement about some bullets not holding up. Shoot a 240 grain North Fork bullet and you will not have to worry about it coming apart, at any distance or speed. Good shooting.

[ 10-19-2003, 17:00: Message edited by: phurley ]

DR LOU -

Call Beretta at 301-283-2191 and ask for tech support. They can tell you if you need to do anything to the rails and feed ramp. I guess is that you won't need to do anything if it was used for a belted Mag case before.

I actually wrote to them and asked them to consider the 338 RUM chambering...I love Sakos and 338 caliber rifles. They were honest and candid in their response, stating that it would compete with the 338 Lapua, and would be a bad marketing decision.

The real advantage of the 338 RUM over other 338s has little to do with raw power. It is flexibility. It loads easily and accurately to 338 Win velocities and has all of the virtues of that round at the same recoil levels. It is still very accurate at 338-06 velocities. But, when the chips are down you can still shoot a 225 gr spitzer 3225 fps across a canyon, or a 300 gr Hawk 2720 fps in big bear country.

How much, if any, freebore should be used?

Doctor Lou, I'd be inclined not to use any freebore for a couple of reasons.
My old 270 WBY required extra powder to make "book" velocity, something like 2-3 extra grains not much, but some. It is enough to make the difference between being lightly, and heavily compressed.
Another option might be the gain-twist barrel.
I may be all wet here, but modifications can always be added at a later date, no?

338 Win mag will kill anything in NA at any range I should be shooting. And I can get good factory ammo almost anywhere. Seems like an unbeatable combo to me.

I wouldn't be a bit afraid of hunting any of the world's big game short of cape buffalo, hippo, rhino, and elephant with the .338 Win. Mag., especially with premium 250 gr loads at 2700 fps. or better and zeroed for 200 yds.

Of course, the .340 will do all the .338 Win. Mag. will do and more. The trouble is, I've found the .340 to be an obnoxious cartridge to shoot, plus I refuse to pack a rifle with a 26" barrel, which is necessary if you want the .340 to live up to its potential.;

I find the .338 Win. Mag. to be plenty good enough as-is, handier to carry (22" or 24" barrel), and much more shootable.

Power ain't everything.........

AD

Freebore: If it is a Weatherby cartridge, the barrel must have freebore, otherwise if you shoot factory ammo in a non freebore chamber, you will have excessive pressure, may rupture a case, and may flow brass into the bolt and lock the action up. (I have done all with a no freebore Weatherby chamber). I had a M43 strain gauge on one rifle (340, no freebore) and got 84,000 psi with factory loads, not good. Had to remove the barrel to take the bolt out. Brass flowed into the bolt face and locked things up solid.

My 338-378 reamer has about 3/8" freebore, both rifles mentioned in the posts above shoot 3/8" to 1/2" 100 yard groups with hunting bullets. Mark V actions, Lilja barrels, trued actions, most of the barrel is free floated, stocks pillar bedded.

There is plenty of room in the 340 and the 338-378 cases for all the powder you need in a freebore chamber.

Gain Twist: We tried gain twist barrels on one of the 340's. Trouble with gain twist barrels is there is not one good enough for high velocity copper bullets, the barrels copper foul extremely bad. I even made a special lapping plug that would distort to the gain twist, yet be firm enugh for lapping, did some good but not enough.

I have chambered many Weatherby cartridges:
So, advice from one that has been there, done that:

Keep the Freebore
Use premium bullets
Put the rifle together corrrectly, with a premium barrel, true the action, chamber the barrel correctly, pillar bed the stock, float the barrel.
Use high quality scope rings and bases, attach with 8-40 screws.
Use a high quality scope
Do not use a light barrel, both of the 338-378's have no. 5 contour barrels.
And twist is 10 inches.

[ 10-20-2003, 19:13: Message edited by: John Ricks ]

John, are your reamers ground with parallel or tapered freebore?

If I remember right,(always a big IF), D'Arcy Echols stated that his 300 Weatherby reamer was straight throated and .001" over bullet diameter.

Just wondering what if any effect that would have on accuracy.

Also, does anyone know what the overall length of a factory loaded 340 cartridge is. The manuals are all over the place, 3.550" to 3.660".

Thank you, Joe.

I've been a listening in for a while and feel compelled to give my 2 or 3 cents worth on this.
And to take a break from cutting lopes up.

First off, I've a bit of experience with the 340 (Schnedier tubes on 700's and on 70's). I am presently on my 4th tube- and I've been around enough friends guns put together in such a manner that will double my count easily. So, I'd say I have about as much experience with said round as most.

I've used 4.5 weight Schneiders and all have been cut without freebore. (I cannot imagine cutting the freebore and coming close to the kind of accuracy). This combo has been incredibly accurate (my first tube would put 5 in .75" on a regular basis-the rest will all do .5 or so with 3 shots day in and day out.

I've been around them cut from between 23-26". Wilst we all know that the longer tube is gonna run a bit faster I've found them to drop right at 30 fps per inch lost or gained on the tube. This is not something I am gonna lose any sleep over.

To me balance, and how I shoot the rifle is far more important than a couple of inches here or there. I happen to like the tube cut at 23" this will put the muzzle dia. at about .7 give or take a small bit. I do not spend a lot of time worrying (anymore) about what 150 fps will do for me, as I honestly feel it is easy to get that much difference between fast and slow tubes. And I do feel that is what the real world gain over a 338 would be with a 340. FYI my 23" tubed 340's generally run quite comfy at 2850.

I happen to hunt elk in open country so I do like the 340, mostly because I kind of like rounds a bit different from what most carry (right Brad?!).
Do I feel there is much difference, nope-to me the difference is much like the old debate of whether or no the 06 is a better round than the 308. There could be some arguments on both sides. Typically I will pick a round that will move a bit faster, that is just my nature it just gives me a bit more confidence, although most of that is between the ears.

About the Laupua/RUM/338-378 personally I am not sure how long all will be around-components are not quite as easy to come by, and lastly to me they would give me the edge that the 340 gave me over the 338 and it is just not somewhere I am interested in going to.

So, for me the 340 is a fine way to go.

If all of my shots were to be within 400 I'd likely go with the 338, however I do practice quite a bit at long range, the elk tend to show up at long range, and I do have the disciplibne to know when to shoot so I favor the 340.

And lastly I am becomming more and more of the belief that the big 300's (Win and Wby again with no freebore) are better anyway-not that you asked about that but I am throwing it in for giggles anyway.

Just my thoughts.......

Have a super day and I hope you get to the hill soon. I've been there a fair bit lately ( a good bruin hunt and 2 good lope hunts), next I head to elk camp.

C-you on the hill

Dogz

Mark
What do you find to be better about the big 30s? From your description of the way you shoot and where you hunt I am surprised that anything could top the 340.

Mark --- I also have shot my .340's extensively. You and I have been in on many discussions about that fine round. I knew if anyone had shot them as much as me, it would be you. My two .340's are a beatup old Weatherby Sporter model, that has many Alaska scars in the stock, and I am proud of each and every one. It got me a fine Moose right in the middle of the Farewell burn just off the Iditarod trail. That old sporter has freebore and when I have a good day shooting, it will drill one hole groups very consistently. By one hole I mean three shots touching, not just a single hole. The second .340 is a Sako with freebore as well, and it is a shooter also, with the occasional one hole group. My point being, I have no problem with accuracy and freebore. ---- Both rifles have brakes. It has been my experience that braked rifles are more accurate, now this may just be me. Why the better accuracy with a braked rifle is a good question, maybe more comfort in shooting, maybe a brake stablizes the barrel, somewhat like the Boss on Brownings. ----- In conclusion, I have no problem with freebore and accuracy. I love the .340's and am now playing with the .338 Lapua, which is giving me one holers with 250 grain Barnes X of all bullets, at 3016 average fps. Generaly I have to go to the North Forks to get the one holers with the big bullets. The .338 caliber bullet is very efficient on wild game, when you beat the .340's you have accomplished a coup, IMHO. Good shooting.

[ 10-21-2003, 17:59: Message edited by: phurley ]

Mark, in regard to your comment about the .300s, it's been my conviction for the last ten years or so that the .300s are the most versatile all-around cartridges (for general hunting) of them all. Except for three specific members of the Big Five (plus hippo), there's no animal on this planet that I wouldn't gladly hunt with a a .300 of some sort, and the trophies on the walls of my den, reloading/gun room, and office bear testimony to that conviction.

Now wait a minute, I said pretty much the same thing earlier about the .338 Win. Mag., so what gives? The truth is, I haven't seen a dime's worth of difference between the performance of the .300 Win. Mag. and the .338 Win. Mag. on game, and I've shot the exact-same number of elk, for example, with the .300 as the .338. In fact, I've taken several animals that are twice as big as the biggest elk you'll find on any mountain with the .300, but even so, those animals went either right down at the shot or within a few yards after being hit.

Yet, I still hear stories about bullet-proof elk , and according to some accounts, anything like a bullet from a .300 of any sort only bounces off elk, and you need to be shooting somethin much bigger to reliably kill same.....

Yeah, right..........

AD

So on elk sized animals,what is the optimum weight of bullet with the various 300's. I've always had good luck with 180 gr partitions,but have always been impressed with the way 200gr bullets penetrate. Has anybody noticed an edge with using 200gr bullets,as far as killing power?

I stick with good 180s, like the Nosler Partition. I've never used the 200s on game, because in my experience the 180s have provided plenty of penetration for anything I've hunted so far with the .300 Win.

But there are a lot of guys who swear by 200 gr. bullets for everything.

AD

As much as I like the big 33's a couple of things sticks with me-I'll try and be brief.

* I have shot quite a bit of game with the 340 and of all the bullets that I have recovered the 210/225/250 Nozlers by far dominate my box of recovered bullets. I am saying this to point out of all the cal's the 33's are the ones I find the most. I've always found that kind of intriging being as it is supposed to penetrate so darn well. Now it could be that I've just used it more than the rest on heavy game and it could be that they just don't penetrate as well as their rep would have it?

I do feel that the bullets out of a big 300 will penetrate farther day in and day out.

* I do enjoy shooting quite a bit, and off my belly at long range targets or at pd's/chucks/coyotes and rocks the 300's are a bit more comfy to drop the hammer on than the 340.
Especially from weird angles in the field.

*Lastly I've tried all of my life to dislike the 30 cal rounds---(grins)-perhaps now that I am rapidly approaching my 45th birthday it is time to really get after it with one.

*There is basically nothing in this world that would intimidate me from taking it with a big 300 with a good bullet.

I gotta go guys-need to load some bullets up for my 270 and 338 WSM (the 340's are already loaded!) for a elk hunt this weekend.

Ciao

"GET TO THE HILL"

Dogz

One last thing the last time I used a .300 I wore out a Krieger shooting 200's at all that moved. It worked......

[ 10-22-2003, 08:54: Message edited by: Mark R Dobrenski ]

Much thanks for the great information. I think I will go with 340 because I don't have to make any modifications to the action - this will allow me to rebarrel to another belted magnum in the future if I choose. I will also put in the freebore in case I do use factory ammo. I don't plan to, but you never know.

At the range this past weekend, I witnessed a gentleman firing factory 300 Weatherby ammo through a new aftermarket barrel without freebore. All fired brass showed signs of high pressure, i.e., flattened primers, difficult to open bolt, one blown primer, etc. Thanks again for the input, Dr. Lou

340 .........no contest!

you betcha 340, all the way . one hellava gun and cartridge. it works like "magic" if the shooter does his part.

Had a good .338,kicked like a damn mule. Rebarrelled to .375 H&H. Kicks less, throws a heavier bullet with about the same trajectory as a 250 in a .338 and hits every bit as hard, in my opinion. Super accurate too.

Not the answer to your question, just another opinion - you know what they say about opinions...

Mickey,
Probably twist is the problem...My gun shoots the long 300 gr. into an inch most of the time in my .338...It shoots the 210 and 250 into 1/2 inch all the time, but who cares...In your 340 I would simply slow the bullet down and see where it stabilizes, if it stabilizes...My gun shoots the PP and RN 300s equally well, but you might try both of them.

I believe the 300 gr. in a 338 equals the 300 gr. in a 375 and the .338 will out penitrate the 375 by some...I have shot quite a few Cape Buff with both and I can't tell any difference in killing power other than the 338 penitrates better, but since both do just fine, it makes little difference.....

With the 300 gr. bullets I can see a marked difference in the 338 and 300s, with lighter bullets I see little difference, except on Buffalo...I have been darn well impressed with the 338 and 300 gr. Woodleighs on everything I have shot with them. I have to say the same for the 320 gr. Woodliegh in my 9.3x62 at 2400 FPS..I will equal the 375 for all practical purposes.