Should I be switching to copper bullets? I don't know if you all have seen this link, but I found it interesting::

http://files.dnr.state.mn.us/f...dlife/lead/index.htm

I guess I'll have to shoot for the head from now on. Or through the lungs and not use any rib meat.

Is this some kind of surprise? Nation wide lead free bullets are their goal.

quote:

Nation wide lead free bullets are their goal.

And "they" is who, other than maybe Barnes bullets?

quote:

Originally posted by nordrseta:

quote:

Nation wide lead free bullets are their goal.

And "they" is who, other than maybe Barnes bullets?

Nosler also produces lead free as well.

quote:

Originally posted by nordrseta:

quote:

Nation wide lead free bullets are their goal.

And "they" is who, other than maybe Barnes bullets?

I would think that you would know who “who” is. Just keep watching and doing nothing. After all most of you voted for it.

Thanks for the link. Very interesting.

quote:

Originally posted by Walter:
Should I be switching to copper bullets? I don't know if you all have seen this link, but I found it interesting::

http://files.dnr.state.mn.us/f...dlife/lead/index.htm

While it does paint a drastic picture, I was more concerned with the part where it stated that processors use more than your deer to prepare the meat you receive. I have only had this happen once, and after it was discovered,I never used them again.

As to the lead, I have no doubts that what they show is true, however, I have not seen any test results which show how detrimental these small fragments are to humans. Most if not all are simply passed right on through the digestive track and even if some of it is digested, it would take quite a bit more than a small piece here and there to actually start the detrimental effects they are concerned with. I would think one would have to consume the lead contaminated meat for the most part at every meal for quite a long time to even build up to a harmful level.

This is the same state that elected Al Franken to the US Senate. Nuff said.

This BS started in Cali w/ the allegation that protected condors were being lead posioned by eating the gut piles of hunter harvested deer. Yes that's how they sold it! I first read a/b it in BUGLE and thought it was a joke of some kind. No, just them same nuts who can't figure out what the definition of is is.
They also announced and then recanted that ALL lead would be banned in National parks--even fishing weights-in an attempt to circumvent right to carry laws!
Did you miss the brass destruction order that was floated and then rescinded?
IF YOU CANNOT READ THE WRITING ON THE WALL--PLEASE DO NOT BREED. THERE ARE TOO MANY OF YOU ALREADY!

Some observations and questions:

First, I didn't see anything on the prepartion of the samples for testing. Was the skinning and gutting done properly?

Second, I didn't see photographs of the carcasses that had small lead particles in muscle tissue. Were there tracks through muscle to establish penetration?

If particles dispersed through muscle, how does a particle the size of cracked pepper have the retained energy to penetrate 18-24 inches of viscera and muscle?

The particles obviously don't get pumped through arteries during the last heart beats because the animals are euthanized before being shot. Could they move that far from hydrostatic pressure?


I think they should have scanned and x-rayed the whole animals before processing and then after to help identify the degree to which handling and processing effect the dispersion of lead particles. That would be much more useful in educating folks about proper game processing than scare tactics like this.

No one has ever said how big these lead particles are and no one has said how much lead a person can eat before it starts to affect his body. If it was a multi million dollar industry like the fishing industry, they'd have guidelines out on how many servings a week you could eat and such before you'd start glowing in the dark.............?

There IS another study that was done in another state-I just cannot recall which one- that concluded that the amount of lead "discovered" in hunter harvested deer was WELL below any harmful levels for people. You most certainly will NOT see these results in the lamestream media as it does not support their agenda. This "lead scare" is just another attempt by the socialist to try and circumvent the 2nd Amendment thru more regulation and costs!

Hmmmm! If it looks & smells like BS, then it's gotta be BS.


Bear in Fairbanks

quote:

Originally posted by aliveincc:
This BS started in Cali w/ the allegation that protected condors were being lead posioned by eating the gut piles of hunter harvested deer. Yes that's how they sold it! I first read a/b it in BUGLE and thought it was a joke of some kind. No, just them same nuts who can't figure out what the definition of is is.
They also announced and then recanted that ALL lead would be banned in National parks--even fishing weights-in an attempt to circumvent right to carry laws!
Did you miss the brass destruction order that was floated and then rescinded?
IF YOU CANNOT READ THE WRITING ON THE WALL--PLEASE DO NOT BREED. THERE ARE TOO MANY OF YOU ALREADY!

This is very true. If you are shooting game & puting bullets into edible meat, just don't eat that are of the meat. It's really much ado about nothing. More anihunting BS. The liberals won;t be happy unitl we all have slingshots & F&G will be the only people killing deer.

I am the first to admit I am a fan of copper bullets, (Barnes), but I dislike intensly the tactics used by the anti hunting groups who want to make you afraid to eat the game you have killed. Just don't eat the blood shot meat. It should be simple enough to tell whats been shot through and what has not. It seems like no one is interested in using common sense these days. DW

Thats cause you guy's don't have Condors!!

Thats the B.S excuse they used here in Kalif that lead might harm the Condors to justify the change in laws overnight..

The "other" study was North Dakota...They said shoot all the lead you want, it isn't going to hurt you...In fact, those that ate meat from animals harvested from lead shot animals were more healthy than those that didn't eat meat from lead shot animals.

There is a guy who goes by Skinner who hangs around the Big Game Board that is a Condor Hugger. He was gleefully adding anything he could find to the Board about how "bad" Lead Bullets are, whether it was true or not.

I happened to mention the CDC(Center for Disease Control) in Atlanta had never been able to find a single person who had died or was in any way made slightly ill from eating Game Killed with Lead Bullets.

So, in Skinners infinite Wisdom(?) he provides a link to a CDC Report and quotes from it in this thread.

When you look at what Skinner included from the CDC Report, you may be interested to find that the Study Group(those eating Game Killed with Lead) had Lower Lead Levels in their systems than the people who did not eat Game Killed with Lead Bullets.

So, if in fact you want "Low Lead" in your body, you need to get busy this next Hunting Season, go Kill a bunch of Game with Lead Bullets and eat until you are stuffed.

Good Hunting and clean 1-shot "Lead Bullet" Kills to all of you.

North Dakota stopped accepting game for the Feed the Hungry or some other similar program because they stated it contained excessive levels of lead. I believe they have since recanted and will accept game in the future. The reason give was their original tests were flawed. However, don't believe this will be the end of it, as one post put it the looney left won't be happy until we are disarmed and become vegan. we had better vote in people who will protect our second amendment rights.

The link was found through the Missouri Department of Conservation website. I always had faith in Missouri being pro-hunting. Now, I am questioning the science. It sure "looked" like science when they took X-ray photographs and all that. -- I am loading for a variety of cartridges and would hate to change everything at the last minute. -- I do eat the meat, just not near the bullet hole.

Thank you for the comments.

quote:

Originally posted by brytstar:
North Dakota stopped accepting game for the Feed the Hungry or some other similar program because they stated it contained excessive levels of lead. I believe they have since recanted and will accept game in the future. The reason give was their original tests were flawed. However, don't believe this will be the end of it, as one post put it the looney left won't be happy until we are disarmed and become vegan. we had better vote in people who will protect our second amendment rights.

Some of the states went thru this a couple of years ago. Turns out the state that pulled all of the meat from the "hunters for the hungry" program (SD?) pulled their samples by Xraying all of the packages until they found metal fragments and only submitting those for the tests. They subsequently retested using random samples and found the lead was insignificant.
In this study, they show xrays of carcasses but do they determine which are lead and which are jacket matl? And can you tell me why all of our forfathers survivied eating game almost every day? Oh right, they used muzzleloaders. Guess I'll have to go cast some bullets for hunting season. BTW in the condor study, they never did determine that the condors got lead poisoning from eating bullets out of carcasses.
some greenie scientist just ASSUMED thats where the lead came from and they banned lead bullets in this part of Calif.

People can be so simple; form an opinion and call it fact. Hunters were killing a lot of deer etc 75-100 years ago, and there were plenty of condors. DDT knocked them down, along with other wildlife and livestock. Next thing you know, they will ban Joe Camel and tear down the Marlboro Man to stop teenagers from smoking. Or, maybe sell a bunch bracelets to cure cancer. I'm convinced that if the Run For Diabetes was a 10k instead of a 5k, there would be no more need for insulin.

quote:

People can be so simple; form an opinion and call it fact.

The PETA, Sierra Club, et al, loonises don't even form an opinon, they simply have an agenda and don't hesitate to distort "science" to further it. Witness: "Global Warming".

Deception, misinformation, misguidance, falsehoods lies, damn lies and statistics are all easily perpetrated on sheep. If you get info supporting the "green", "clean", "global", "vegan" "anti-gun"or any other idea, movement or cause from Washington or Cali----then you better really think a/b the motives involved. If it does not hit you upside the head---LOOK HARDER--there will be one. Rest assure, if you are a regular here, then the motive will NOT be in your best interest.

The CA Condor study included a necropsy on the deceased bird without a blood test or toxicology scan. The cause of death was an opinion not a scientific result.
Sir Mauser -- your opinions on causes of diabetes are obsolete. We (Vietnam Vets) Agent Orange Vets have to put up with a lot of prejudice on this point. Type two diabetes is one of the side effects we have to endure from the poison. As of 2001 the VA has put us on disability for diabetes if we served in ground combat units. Type one is genetic.

Thanks very much for the information limited as it may be. 308 huh, lucky they didn't use a ultra mag. Makes a guy wonder how much poison he's been ingesting.

Time to switch to all head shots I guess---
Oh , you meant on the game animals

quote:

The CA Condor study included a necropsy on the deceased bird without a blood test or toxicology scan. The cause of death was an opinion not a scientific result.

The critter died from an agenda topic. No valid data was needed or sought, I'm sure.

The clean, green sheeple weenies don't need facts, their minds are already made up. And they hold congress by the short hairs, so we get "cap and trade" and pointless "lead free" bullets and game crippling steel bird shot and silly brass fishing sinkers and sorry latex paint and lousy lead-free gasohol and .... higher prices.

quote:

Originally posted by Jim C. <><:

quote:

The CA Condor study included a necropsy on the deceased bird without a blood test or toxicology scan. The cause of death was an opinion not a scientific result.

The critter died from an agenda topic. No valid data was needed or sought, I'm sure.

The clean, green sheeple weenies don't need facts, their minds are already made up. And they hold congress by the short hairs, so we get "cap and trade" and pointless "lead free" bullets and game crippling steel bird shot and silly brass fishing sinkers and sorry latex paint and lousy lead-free gasohol and .... higher prices.

And, if I may add, the beginnings of the decline of our republic into a western European, socialist democracy. I'm betting that if any of us are alive in 100 years, we wouldn't recognize our republic.
Bear in Fairbanks

I dont recognize it now.

Maybe they should try the same bullets at a more realistic range, as 50yds is well inside what I consider an average shot & fragmentation is certain to be higher that close.
One has only to look at tests of the NATO SS109 bullet to see that.
No wonder the slug didn't fragment at the much lower velocity on impact.

quote:

Originally posted by Big Bore Boar Hunter:

quote:

Originally posted by nordrseta:

quote:

Nation wide lead free bullets are their goal.

And "they" is who, other than maybe Barnes bullets?

Nosler also produces lead free as well.

So does Hornady and Remington.

quote:

Originally posted by Bear in Fairbanks:

quote:

Originally posted by Jim C. <><:

quote:

The CA Condor study included a necropsy on the deceased bird without a blood test or toxicology scan. The cause of death was an opinion not a scientific result.

The critter died from an agenda topic. No valid data was needed or sought, I'm sure.

The clean, green sheeple weenies don't need facts, their minds are already made up. And they hold congress by the short hairs, so we get "cap and trade" and pointless "lead free" bullets and game crippling steel bird shot and silly brass fishing sinkers and sorry latex paint and lousy lead-free gasohol and .... higher prices.

And, if I may add, the beginnings of the decline of our republic into a western European, socialist democracy. I'm betting that if any of us are alive in 100 years, we wouldn't recognize our republic.
Bear in Fairbanks

Given what I've seen in the last 60+ years....who the hell would still want to be here? I, for one, am glad I'm old!

I spent much of my life analysing statistics. If I learned nothing else I learned 'you tell me what you want to prove and you can find statistics to prove it'. The devil is in the details. If you can't get the raw data and how it was collected, don't believe the statistical conclusion. This study didn't say anything that wasn't true, they just didn't give all the info needed to make an informed decision. They want you to jump to conclusions. It can have the same effect as jumping of a cliff.....Tom