flanged 30 cal

10 May 2011, 16:10

BwanaCole

flanged 30 cal

I have a .30-06 double rifle and love it. What I don't like are the extractors. I read somewhere about converting the .30-06 to a flanged round, maybe out of 303 brass...?

Anybody got ideas?? I don't want to re-invent the wheel, but I would love to have reasonable flanged rounds to fire.

TIA!

H. Cole Stage III, FRGS
ISC(PJ), USN (Ret)

"You do not have a right to an opinion. An opinion should be the result of careful thought, not an excuse for it."

Harlan Ellison

" War is God's way to teach Americans geography." Ambrose Bierce

10 May 2011, 17:56

Grenadier

.30R Blaser?

10 May 2011, 19:45

pulki

Another vote for the 30R Blaser.
A modern cartridge almost as powerfull as any 300 Magnum . I get 2850 fps with 180 grainers, perhaps with more appropiate powders would be better. RWS brass lasts forever .
Pulki.

10 May 2011, 20:01

jeffeosso

30-40 improved?

opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club

Information on Ammoguide about
the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR
What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR.
476AR,
http://www.weaponsmith.com

10 May 2011, 20:12

500N

Not sure which would clean out the chamber but

30R Blaser
307 Winchester
300 H&H Flanged.

I'd look at the brass situation as well before deciding, hence why 30R Blaser may be the go
if, as said before it cleans out the chamber.

10 May 2011, 21:41

Gerry

quote:
30R Blaser?

quote:
Another vote for the 30R Blaser.

quote:
30R Blaser

Yup, 30R Blaser - #4

10 May 2011, 22:03

Allan DeGroot

Look long and hard at the 444Marlin case as a parent round as it already is a semi-rimmed "30-06 Basic" case.

It is the parent case for the various "JDJ" cartridges made specifically for the Thompson Center crowd...

AD

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Those who manage to provoke themselves into other activities have only themselves to blame.

*We Band of 45-70er's*

35 year Life Member of the NRA

NRA Life Member since 1984

10 May 2011, 23:14

BwanaCole

quote:
Originally posted by 500N:
Not sure which would clean out the chamber but

30R Blaser
307 Winchester
300 H&H Flanged.

I'd look at the brass situation as well before deciding, hence why 30R Blaser may be the go
if, as said before it cleans out the chamber.

I looked up the 30R Blaser and it look like a great option. I am not a gunsmith or a reloader (yet!) so I don't really know what you mean by "cleans out the chamber." I assume that means milling out the barrel past the profile of the .30-06 to fit the 30R?? (I am a good fabricator, but on race trucks, not guns.)

What is involved in getting a .30-06 milled to accept the 30R? I just want to be able to talk semi-intelligently to a gunsmith before I show up and waste his time (and then get charged the "idiot tax" on top of it all when I get some work done!) I'm shooting a Baikal double .30-06 so I realise that whatever is done to one barrel, I'll get charged for doing it again to the other. Oh well, the joys of a double!!

10 May 2011, 23:35

500N

Cleanig out the chamaber.

OK, If you re chamber an existing gun, the new cartridge that is chambered has to remove all traces of the old chamber for it to work.

Now on a bolt gun, you can unscrew the barrel, chop off a bit of it, rechamber ad screw it back in and then headspace it.

You can't do this with a Double.

So, if 30R Blaser is shorter than the 30.06,
then that could cause a problem.

.

10 May 2011, 23:50

BwanaCole

Here is a link to a French page that has all the details (graph at the bottom) but it looks to me like the 30R is just slightly bigger/longer than the ought-six in every dimension.

I would think at first glance that milling out to 30R would do the trick. Thoughts??
French munitions page

11 May 2011, 00:07

500N

It LOOKS OK, definately longer which is what is needed to remove the 30.06 chamber, now you just need to make sure the case WIDTH of the 30R is bigger than the 30.06
- which it should be or at least be the same.

I'll have a quick look to see if I can find it.

Also, just to a quick check re the pressures
but I don't think that will be a problem.

EDIT - I'd also go and do a few Google Searches
on 30R Blaser as well as have a look at the various
Blaser forums around the world.

You will get some good info from them and MAY find
someone has already asked the question about re chambering
a 30.06 to 30R Blaser.

.

11 May 2011, 00:50

Kabluewy

In the UK or Australia, the 30R Blaser may be a good idea, but I think not such a good idea in the US.

The word "flanged" may sound cool, and very Brit, however the word rimmed works for me.

Those Baikal double rifles, as I recall, are Russian made. IMO, there simply is no excuse, except for catering to the US market, for not making those chambered in the 7.62x54R, and the 9.3x74R.(or 9.3x54R) It's a damn shame.

In a wildcat, the 444 brass necked to .308 or .366 would do the trick for me, in a double rifle.

But neither solves your problem. It's just my wish list.

I sorta think you are trying to fix a "problem" by creating another one.

KB

11 May 2011, 00:51

ALF

11 May 2011, 00:58

500N

sfhr

Just a thought. Have you got one of those Baikal Double Rifle ?

Might be worth checking that you have enough mean in the barrels to extend the chambers.

Or maybe someone who has one can pass judgement on if they think it is OK.

The photos ALF posted look OK, the 30R Looks wider than the 30.06 but you can really only
go off drawings.

.

11 May 2011, 01:32

ALF

11 May 2011, 01:37

tiggertate

quote:
Originally posted by 500N:
sfhr

Just a thought. Have you got one of those Baikal Double Rifle ?

Might be worth checking that you have enough mean in the barrels to extend the chambers.

Or maybe someone who has one can pass judgement on if they think it is OK.

The photos ALF posted look OK, the 30R Looks wider than the 30.06 but you can really only
go off drawings.

.

The chamber areas are beefy on the Bakail guns. CIP MAP for the 30R is 59,000. I wonder if any extra bolt thrust would be significant?

11 May 2011, 01:50

900 SS

You dont need to rechamber, modify the extractor to take the rim of 8x65R, resize and trim those cases to 30-06R.

11 May 2011, 01:53

500N

quote:
Originally posted by 900 SS:
You dont need to rechamber, modify the extractor to take the rim of 8x65R, resize and trim those cases to 30-06R.

Now that is a damn good idea.

A guy over here made a 30.06R in a single shot Merkel I think it was.

Avoiding re chambering is the way to go if you can.

.

11 May 2011, 02:01

Grenadier

That sounds like a good idea - 8x65 or 7x65. But isn't the 30-06 case a few thousands larger at the base?

11 May 2011, 02:07

MuskegMan

Cut a 0.050" deep x 0.530" dia extractor groove in your existing chambers and you have a .30-06 rimmed. Trim .400-.350 NE brass to length and form in a regular '06 sizer and voila.

Looks like a rimmed '06 case from parent case 8x65R is a good idea (previously suggested,) as is from 9.3x74R.

11 May 2011, 02:34

BwanaCole

quote:
Originally posted by sfhr:
quote:
Originally posted by MuskegMan:
Cut a 0.050" deep x 0.530" dia extractor groove in your existing chambers and you have a .30-06 rimmed. Trim .400-.350 NE brass to length and form in a regular '06 sizer and voila.

Looks like a rimmed '06 case from parent case 8x65R is a good idea (previously suggested,) as is from 9.3x74R.

Okay, remember that I am not a reloader (yet!) or a gunsmith soooo:

First comment: does that mean milled face/ejectors as described and trimmed/formed t .400-.300 brass to ought six size and .06 bullets = rimmed ought-six?

Enquiring minds want to know as changing calibers here means changing your license=major PITA

Second comment: talk to me like a 3 year old; does that mean resizing 8x65R brass to 30-06 size and milled groove = 30-06R??

and I really don't understand about the 9.3x74. I would think that brass is waaaay to big for my barrels; yes, no, maybe, -ish??

11 May 2011, 02:34

500N

quote:
Second comment: talk to me like a 3 year old; does that mean resizing 8x65R brass to 30-06 size and milled groove = 30-06R??

I think so.

I would say, not knowing your laws 100% that you should be able to get away with making it a 30.06R without changing your licence. After all, it is still a 30.06,
just a rimmed version.

They wouldn't know the difference hence why you would probably get away with it.

11 May 2011, 02:43

BwanaCole

500N,

Quite right, I only need to make sure the end result is 30-06. They wont care if its rimmed or not. The bullits have to remain 30-06 as that is what is on my license and therefore what I can purchase. Brass is, well, just brass. Unless I throw it at you, can't really hurt you with it

so can buy whatever I want.

I am not very familiar with resizing brass so what is involved? Which is closer (meaning less to do or less stress on brass) to a flanged -06? Or does it matter??

Sorry to sound like such a dweeb, but I want to make it as simple/safe as possible.

11 May 2011, 02:47

BwanaCole

Maybe I'm asking the wrong question above. I think this is what I am trying to figure out:

Can 400-300, 8x65R and 9.3x74R brass ALL be formed/trim to fit as a 30-06R??

11 May 2011, 02:52

500N

Re "Sorry to sound like such a dweeb, but I want to make it as simple/safe as possible."

The only silly question is the one NOT asked. We all started at the same point you did in the past so no need to feel like a dweeb.

I THINK 9.3 brass (ie from 9.3x74R) MIGHT be too thin to rechamber / USE AS a 30.06R.

I don't have drawings at hand to see.

Resizing brass - run the brass through a resizing die to rezise it to what you want.

So run 8x56R brass through a 30.06 die.

Someone else might be able to make it sound simpler.

I think the others are OK.

11 May 2011, 03:09

metric

Some guys here in Norway have had their doubble rifles and drillings rechambered from 30-06 to 30-06R.
Brass was made just by running soft 7x65R brass in a 30-06 die-set. (30-06 is 63mm long)
Works fine. And you dont have to mess with that overly expensive 30R Blaser brass

11 May 2011, 03:11

BwanaCole

quote:
Originally posted by Allan DeGroot:
Look long and hard at the 444Marlin case as a parent round as it already is a semi-rimmed "30-06 Basic" case.

It is the parent case for the various "JDJ" cartridges made specifically for the Thompson Center crowd...

AD

If I read my google searches right, you are spot on; the 444 marlin basically is a flanged .-06 case. Does that mean put it through size die and load with .06 bullits for a flanged .-06??

I think I'm starting to get the idea here :-0

11 May 2011, 03:13

BwanaCole

quote:
Originally posted by metric:
Some guys here in Norway have had their doubble rifles and drillings rechambered from 30-06 to 30-06R.
Brass was made just by running soft 7x65R brass in a 30-06 die-set. (30-06 is 63mm long)
Works fine. And you dont have to mess with that overly expensive 30R Blaser brass

M

Cool! Thanks, sounds like what I need to do.

11 May 2011, 03:46

MuskegMan

quote:
Originally posted by sfhr:
If I read my google searches right, you are spot on; the 444 marlin basically is a flanged .-06 case. Does that mean put it through size die and load with .06 bullits for a flanged .-06??

Problem is you'll end up a 1/4" short in length. 2.225" (Marlin) vs 2.494" ('06)

11 May 2011, 03:51

Grenadier

What double rifle is it that is having problems extracting/ejecting the .30-06?

11 May 2011, 03:59

500N

quote:
Originally posted by Grenadier:
What double rifle is it that is having problems extracting/ejecting the .30-06?

He has a Baikal.

From what I understand, it is not a problem
with the extraction but that he just doesn't like it and wants to go flanged.

11 May 2011, 13:07

BwanaCole

Yes, Baikal. It just does not eject very well. Not horrible, just have to pick them out of the extractor every now and again.

Besides, a "proper" double rifle should be flanged...

All this got me to thinking about something I had heard of, but did not think it applied to me but maybe does now:

Brass headstamps. So, if I resize 7x65R brass to .30-06 the brass will still read 7x65R, yes? That could mean trouble if I travelled with it and it did not match the caliber on the gun. So, what do you do about it?? It would not matter one dot back home stateside, but it sure might here!!

Thanks!

11 May 2011, 14:35

500N

sfhr

Is it that much of a problem ? (Wrong headstamp) ?

After all, what do old english calibres use ?

318WR
450/400 could be formed from 450 basic

11 May 2011, 16:46

BwanaCole

quote:
Originally posted by 500N:
sfhr

Is it that much of a problem ? (Wrong headstamp) ?

After all, what do old english calibres use ?

318WR
450/400 could be formed from 450 basic

Could be a problem if you travel with it or get inspected by an officer who is not gun-smart. Say I had 7x65R stamped on all my brass though its it is now .30-06 size and bullets are .30-06. If said customs/police officer reads the gun and then reads the ammo, it would seem like I had illegal ammo because they would not match up.

If I had brass with no markings, I would be okay. WRONG markings could get me into trouble. I would hate to take it to SA/Namibia for PG and then have the ammo confiscated

11 May 2011, 20:45

Monastery-Forester

The .3oR was concepted to easily modify .30/06 chambers to the new round. Yes, the cases are quite expensive but of teutonic quality!

Somebody called the 8x65RS, but these cases are very, very rare and nearly impossible to find, perhaps you can get some cases from Horneber (after waiting some years) or you can reform 7x65R cases!

11 May 2011, 21:27

enfieldspares

quote:
Look long and hard at the 444Marlin case as a parent round as it already is a semi-rimmed "30-06 Basic" case.

I thought that too. Also would not 7x65R be able to be neck expanded to take a 308 bullet and then fire formed to make a 30-06 rimmed?

11 May 2011, 22:35

Monastery-Forester

There is still existing a german wildcat called 7,62x74R, concepted by Prof. Minkler/Aachen. He reformed 9,3x74R cases blown out with a short neck.

12 May 2011, 00:37

Allan DeGroot

quote:
Originally posted by MuskegMan:
quote:
Originally posted by sfhr:
If I read my google searches right, you are spot on; the 444 marlin basically is a flanged .-06 case. Does that mean put it through size die and load with .06 bullits for a flanged .-06??

Problem is you'll end up a 1/4" short in length. 2.225" (Marlin) vs 2.494" ('06)

I'll be honest and say I forgot to consider that...

But as others point out there are other factors

Headstamp issues on transporting the rifle & Ammo across international boundries...

AD

12 May 2011, 01:33

BwanaCole

So, is 7x65R brass available with blank headstamping??