When I bought my 7mm, I didn't know how much I would like it.

It just works. I don't like the belt, but the dang thing shoots well. So well my .308 hasn't shot a deer in a few years.

One of the BEST cartridges period!!!

I had one once, for about two months. It was a Ruger tang safety. It beat the hell out of me worse than any rifle I ever fired. I just never saw the need to have another one. It is great for some people, just not me.

With lighter 7mm bullets, it doesn't do anything my 264WM won't do with half the recoil and with heavier bullets, it works about the same as my 30-06. So what did I do...I am building me a 7x57 just for grins.

Everyone I know who owns a 7mm RM loves the rifle.

quote:

Originally posted by Clem:
Everyone I know who owns a 7mm RM loves the rifle.

No reason why they shouldn't.

Dunno about not liking it?

All I know is it kills the hell out of the rear light cluster on the rear mudguard of a Ford 5000 tractor

No one need apologize for this great cartridge. It can do it all but I'm sure it may be too much for some people. Also, the evolution of cartridge design seems to be moving away from belts, which helps date the 7mm Rem. Mag as an "earlier" design.

I'm an eastern hunter and I never saw the need for cross-county rifles when shots tend to be close (with exceptions, of course).

As an stablished and popular round, I'm sure users need not worry about ammunition availability. Virtually every gunshop stocks it.

Because, they shot a .280Rem

The 7 RM was my first rifle. Still have it. Still kill elk every year with it.

Never knew there was so much controvercy or people who thought it had mediocre peformance.

I handload mine. 3250+ with a 150 Sciroco. I love it and it shoot's 1/2 -3/4" groups consistantly.

I don't know where your comming from on this.. The Rem 7 mag is the number one or two best seller out there. recoil is mild and its easy to shoot and kills very well on most game.

Maybe some like me think it won't do anything a 30-06 won't do, and the reloading books pretty well back that up..but being as good as an 06 is damn good praise..

Also if I'm going to go to a magnum of that catagory I'm going to use a big 30 like a 300 Win. or even a 300 H&H, they are bigger and better.

I suspect my reasoning is why your question crops up, but the fact is my reasoning is probably in the minority as the 7 mag is a very successful and proper caliber, just not my cup of tea for no particular reason.

quote:

The Rem 7 mag is the number one or two best seller out there. recoil is mild and its easy to shoot and kills very well on most game.

Maybe some like me think it won't do anything a 30-06 won't do, and the reloading books pretty well back that up..but being as good as an 06 is damn good praise..

Also if I'm going to go to a magnum of that catagory I'm going to use a big 30 like a 300 Win. or even a 300 H&H, they are bigger and better.

I suspect my reasoning is why your question crops up

That probably comes pretty close to the mark, especially at normal hunting ranges.

I suspect, though, that the next big jump up is rather a .338.

best wishes!

friar

The question was help me understand why people don't like the 7mm RM. I think the answer is that people have tried to shoot big animals at bad angles with lightweight frangible bullets. I don't think the 7 mag is as popular as it used to be but I clearly remember talkng to a number of novices that had just bought one as their AK rifle while I lived in AK. It was easy to tell they though they had a cannon that would kill anything they pointed it at. Ask them about bullets and they got a glazed look in their eyes. Bullets? Scary!

Mark

If you can tell me why some people don't like vanilla ice cream I'll tell you why some don't like the 7mm Mag.

I bought a Model 70 Classic (controlled-feed) sporter in 7RM a few years ago. I shot it a few times but wasn't greatly impressed with it. I decided I'd rather have a .300 Winchester Magnum so I found a barrel on ebay, back when they still sold such things, a Super Grade stock, and one-piece, all-steel bottom metal and built myself a new rifle. I don't miss the 7RM at all.

quote:

If you can tell me why some people don't like vanilla ice cream I'll tell you why some don't like the 7mm Mag.

Pardon the pun, but I think that answer takes the cake!

I do believe I now understand and have learned something about the greater world!

Blessings,

friar

Gentlemen,

All the talk about belts on cases reminds me of an article written by Robert Chatfield Taylor back in the 1960's in one of the Gun Digests when the magnum craze had just begun and cartridges of the .270 / 30-06 class were considered to be barely adequate:

"because the first magnums were the .375 & 300 H&H, most American sportsmen don't consider a cartridge to be a magnum unless it wears a belt"

For the same reason they dont like a 30-06 or a 270 Win. Because it is one of those boring old, reliable, time tested chamberings that just keeps on working as intended reguardless of the latest fad.

The answer is up above in several posts.

Think of the bullet and the job to do. The 270 Win will cover pretty much whatever a 7mRM is good for, medium-sized game at long range. If you have an accurate 7mWM you don't need a 270 Win, and if you have an accurate 270 Win you don't need a 7mRM. Same for a 280 Rem. I would list 'hartebeest' as the watershed size.

If you go to larger, tougher animals, a larger bullet is better. So get a cartridge that throws a larger bullet. If you're happy with 30 calibre, then a 300 WM, RUM, Weatherby, or even a WSM will do, but once you start going up to a bigger bullet it's easy to keep on going to .338 or .375 as long as you can maintain velocity over 2800 fps.

I've shot a lot of animals with 270 Win and 338 WM in Africa and there is no question that the 338WM was more effective at humbling game in their flight responses. When my son was 11 he loved his 270 Win, but when he grew up and needed to buy his own 'antelope gun', it was a 338 WinMag and a 416 Rigby for 'allround'. You've got to raise kids right.

quote:

If you have an accurate 7mWM you don't need a 270 Win, and if you have an accurate 270 Win you don't need a 7mRM. Same for a 280 Rem. I would list 'hartebeest' as the watershed size.

I'd have to agree...which begs another question: is there no appreciable difference between the .270 & 7RM?

friar

quote:

Originally posted by friarmeier:

quote:

If you have an accurate 7mWM you don't need a 270 Win, and if you have an accurate 270 Win you don't need a 7mRM. Same for a 280 Rem. I would list 'hartebeest' as the watershed size.

I'd have to agree...which begs another question: is there no appreciable difference between the .270 & 7RM?

friar

The word is 'appreciable'. They both shoot relatively small, light bullets. The 7mRM has a 10% energy advantage and a 5% velocity advantage on the 270. So the 7m is better on paper but it typically needs a longer barrel to extract the advantage of the 13-14 grains of powder.

The problem is that that advantage is not an appreciable hunting advantage for medium-sized game. It is an advantange, but for larger game it is not enough of an advantage to get beyond the 270 class. Both the 7m and 270 will do "elk" or waterbuck and zebra. But they are both on the light side, you will be doing a little more tracking in follow-up, and some shots should maybe be passed up that could be taken with a larger rifle. The problem with the last point is that a cartridge's limits only become visible when it's too late. The animal takes a step as the trigger breaks, the bullet hits back in the lungs and one ends up with a two-mile tracking. That is the kind of experience that leads people to larger calibres for heavier game. I once thought that the 223 was enough for a broadside kob (~impala). It is, but a four-kilometer tracking taught me to limit shots to 270 and heavier. As mentioned, I've shot and seen quite a few hartebeest shot with a 270/7m/280/30-06 and quite a few shot with a 338WM/375HH. On the whole, tracking was much easier with the larger calibres. The same is true for the lowly warthog. They don't stand still as long as antelope and the occasions of non-optimal bullet placement are more frequent. The 338WM/375HH class just do a noticeably better job and the 7m doesn't get up into that class. The 7m is a great calibre, don't misread me. And so is the 270. And they can do an excellent job on plains game. But if someone wants 'more' for the heavier end of plains game, then I would recommend to step up to a 300 or 338 with monometal bullets over .260 SecDens (.280 SD if premium lead-core). The 338WM 225TTSX Barnes at 2800 fps still has 2000+fps and 2000+ ftlbs at 500 yards. That provides a lot of 'marginal shot coverage' between 0 and 500 yards. (You won't ever need 500 yards in Africa and many would not shoot at anything over 300 yards.) Most elk hunters ought to be able to work with that, though the new 375 Ruger with a 250 grain TTSX (.424 BC) should also get consideration as a wonderful elk resource.
(For 'apples' with 'apples': 210 TTSX in 338WM at 2925fps vs. 250 TTSX in 375Ruger at 2900fps. Both are great, and not too different from the 270//7m discussion above. I would pick the 225 TTSX at 2800fps in 338 with its better SD and BC, but the 375 doesn't have a heavier tipped-monometal.)

Bottom line: the 7m is a great LIGHT calibre. But a hunter needs to recognize its limitations and adapt to it's marginal lightness for heavier game.

I've carried a 7MM Rem Mag since I've been 13 years old. I'm 48 now. It has always served me well and done what I asked it to. I really couldn't tell you how many heads of game have fallen to it, but the number is pretty high. I have used that rifle in about 12 states, 2 Canadian provinces and it has made it to Africa 5 times. My father and brother both shoot them as well. I have never heard them complain about it being inadequate.

Is it the single best cartridge for hunting everything on earth? Absolutely not. Is it the single best cartridge for hunting everything in North America? Probably not if you include the big bears and moose.

But is it one of the best cartridges for most the hunting that most Americans will do? Yeah, it is. It has always seemed to me to be a good mix of power, flat shooting and moderate recoil.

It works. Period.

quote:

The 338WM/375HH class just do a noticeably better job and the 7m doesn't get up into that class. The 7m is a great calibre, don't misread me. And so is the 270. And they can do an excellent job on plains game. But if someone wants 'more' for the heavier end of plains game, then I would recommend to step up to a 300 or 338 with monometal bullets over .260 SecDens (.280 SD if premium lead-core).

good advice.

When both bullet weight and Sd is stepped up, you step up the class as well:

308 Win with 150 gr bullet - SD = .226
30-06 Spr with 180 gr bullet - SD = .271
300 H&H with 200 gr bullet - SD = .301
338 WM with 225 gr bullet - SD = .281
338 WM with 250 gr bullet - SD = .313

As the weight goes up, so will the momentum.
As the SD goes up, so you will have more weight behind the frontal area.

Warrior

quote:

Originally posted by 416Tanzan:

quote:

Originally posted by friarmeier:

quote:

If you have an accurate 7mWM you don't need a 270 Win, and if you have an accurate 270 Win you don't need a 7mRM. Same for a 280 Rem. I would list 'hartebeest' as the watershed size.

I'd have to agree...which begs another question: is there no appreciable difference between the .270 & 7RM?

The word is 'appreciable'. They both shoot relatively small, light bullets. The 7mRM has a 10% energy advantage and a 5% velocity advantage on the 270. So the 7m is better on paper but it typically needs a longer barrel to extract the advantage of the 13-14 grains of powder.

The problem is that that advantage is not an appreciable hunting advantage for medium-sized game. It is an advantange, but for larger game it is not enough of an advantage to get beyond the 270 class...

...and if one has an accurate .30/06 one dont need an .300mag,
...and if one has an accurate .338/06 one dont need an .338win,
...cause like .270/280rem vs 7mmRmag, there be no appreciable difference between std. & magnum,..... correct?

quote:

Originally posted by ALF:
Dunno about not liking it?

All I know is it kills the hell out of the rear light cluster on the rear mudguard of a Ford 5000 tractor

With 175 grainers its a 30-06 and with 150 or less its a 270 win.

With less magazine capacity.

quote:

Originally posted by Trax:

,
...and if one has an accurate .338/06 one dont need an .338win,

....and if one has an accurate 8X57 that is handloaded to full potential, one don't need a 338/06,

quote:

Originally posted by 900 SS:
With 175 grainers its a 30-06 and with 150 or less its a 270 win.

With less magazine capacity.

That's about how I see it. And hunting rifles with light bullets do not need large magazines. 3 down is plenty and most times one down and one in the chamber if all that is necessary.

quote:

Originally posted by wildcat junkie:

quote:

Originally posted by Trax:

,
...and if one has an accurate .338/06 one dont need an .338win,

....and if one has an accurate 8X57 that is handloaded to full potential, one don't need a 338/06,

Yeah, but I'm still not giving up my .338-06 for your 8X57. Besides I have an 8mm-06 loaded to full potential which still beats your 8X57.

Nor am I giving up my .270's for any 7mm. I tried that and I didn't like it.

quote:

Originally posted by taylorce1:

quote:

Originally posted by wildcat junkie:

quote:

Originally posted by Trax:

,
...and if one has an accurate .338/06 one dont need an .338win,

....and if one has an accurate 8X57 that is handloaded to full potential, one don't need a 338/06,

Yeah, but I'm still not giving up my .338-06 for your 8X57. Besides I have an 8mm-06 loaded to full potential which still beats your 8X57.

Nor am I giving up my .270's for any 7mm. I tried that and I didn't like it.

Not by much I'll bet.

quote:

Originally posted by wildcat junkie:

quote:

Originally posted by taylorce1:

quote:

Originally posted by wildcat junkie:

quote:

Originally posted by Trax:

,
...and if one has an accurate .338/06 one dont need an .338win,

....and if one has an accurate 8X57 that is handloaded to full potential, one don't need a 338/06,

Yeah, but I'm still not giving up my .338-06 for your 8X57. Besides I have an 8mm-06 loaded to full potential which still beats your 8X57.

Nor am I giving up my .270's for any 7mm. I tried that and I didn't like it.

Not by much I'll bet.

On game proabably not, but on paper I'm all over it!

Nice group BTW!

Wildcat, I'd gladly hunt with that 8x57. Just place the group about 2.7" inches over the target center. (And I've used an 8x57 on two hunts.)
So what advantages might be offered in other rounds? If an accurate gun used that velocity and upped the NP to a 250 grain .338 I would say that a little marginal protection was provided on larger animals. Or looked at the other way, if a 210 NP .338 was sent out at 2950 fps then the 200+ fps would provide some marginal coverage for distance. In both cases I would treat it as approximately one step up in cartridge performance. With animals, probably 9 out of 10 would react the same, but there would be a marginal group that might walk further. So a hunter with a lighter load works a little harder to make sure that those 10% don't happen or possibly passing on an occasional marginal shot. I think Milek once wrote an article where he passed on a long elk shot when he heard a loud boom and someone else with a more powerful calibre dropped the elk.

Everything is a tradeoff and one chooses one's tools and hunting parameters.

For me it is real simple it is called B-E-L-T.

Useless as tits on a bore. Don't need or want a cartridge with one, when other cartridges can do the same job.

Barstooler

quote:

Originally posted by Barstooler:
For me it is real simple it is called B-E-L-T.

Useless as tits on a bore. Don't need or want a cartridge with one, when other cartridges can do the same job.

Barstooler

From what I gather, some don't like a belted cartridge - why?.

Please excuse my ignorance - a good friend does my reloading for me, and my experience is very limited!

The belt part is probably my biggest question about the whole matter.

Thanks!

friar

I have a 7mm rem and a 280 and a 300win, weatherby,RUM and WSM and 270 and 270 weatherby.
I have used all in the USA and africa and while I disagree its a 30-06 or a 270 that is not to say it is better or worse. It kills and kills good, as good as my 30-06 and 300 win and think the only caliber i can say i noticed a difference on bigger is the 300 weatherby and RUM, impact was noticably different and oddly enough shooting Kudu down to duiker with whitetail being main animal the only gun I can say killed better than all above is my 257 weatherby mag with 100 gr TSX bullets. Should it be that way,not on paper but just my personal animals shot and that is not a scientific sample but is quite large.I have no idea why but it sure is that way. Even that does not make me take the 257 when i know I am hunting bigger animals I am generally going 30-06 through 338 or just jump up to 375.I really can't understand bashing this caliber or any other for that matter as they will kill if placed properly. If you want one get one if you like something else get it but just buy some guns they are fun to mess with.

quote:

Originally posted by 416Tanzan:
Wildcat, I'd gladly hunt with that 8x57. Just place the group about 2.7" inches over the target center.

That line intersecting the top 2 holes was 3" above target center so group center was pretty damned close to 2.7". That was the very 1st 3 shots W/that particular load so all I did was bring it over seven (1/4 min) clicks to center above target center.

The load is zeroed @ about 230yds.

Worked great on 2 whitetail bucks @ about 245yds last year. 1 was DRT, the other I misjudged the angle & hit him a bit too far back. I found him about 15yds from where he was standing when I shot.

quote:

Originally posted by wildcat junkie:


....and if one has an accurate 8X57 that is handloaded to full potential, one don't need a 338/06,

Whats "need" got to do with it? I only "need" one rifle for all my hunting, but what fun is that?

I aint givin up my 8X57 or my Whelen for a 338-06 either, Id still kinda like to get one though..

Here's my newest "Pig Buster" for nightime...
7 RM