I've got a couple of 300 WSMs. I admit I haven't put in a lot of time with them so far, but the initial time spent seems to not be quite as productive as when working up loads, or even initial sighting in of some of my other rifles, (most of them not as high on the pecking order of popularity, or wish lists) I have a Sako Model 85 wood gun, and a Kimber Montana. Realizing these aren't bench guns, and shouldn't be held to that standard. I still think sub 1moa should be almost automatic. My model 85 in 7mm08 was 3/4" @ 100 out of the box with the 3rd 4th and fifth shot fired out of it.

My question is really about the WSMs, and the thoughts and experiences you guy's have with them and the accuracy / feeding etc.

Are you sold on them or not? Would love to hear your real thoughts.

I think the 375 Rugar is the new age magnum that should have come out before the WSMs.

It's one of those "why didn't I think of that" ideas.

Use the full .532" head diameter for case capacity & make it to fit into an "06" length action.

Now, to have 7mm, & 8mm versions availbale would be great.

My brother has a 300 WSM, .270 WSM and a .325 WSM all of which were really accurate right out of the box with factory Winchester Supreme black box ammo. I have shot his 270 and 325 enough to know they both shoot 3/4" easy at 100 yards the 325 is a lightweight Browning and the 270 is a Win M70, so is the 300.
I started working up some loads for the 270 and didn't have time to perfect them but wasn't quite getting to the groups that he was getting with factory ammo. He is shooting Federal 110 grain Barnes TTSX this fall in the 270 WSM.
A gunsmith I know really likes the WSM's for extreme accuracy in the lightweight rifles he is building.
Good luck with yours.

I own two WSM rifles and am quite pleased with both.

One is a 270 WSM in a Winchester Model 70 Super Shadow Camo. I won this rifle at a dinner and it is becoming one of my favorites. I have killed coyotes, hogs, deer, antelope, and black bears with it. I have never had an animal take more than a few steps after being shot with it.
My favorite load for it was a 140 Nosler Partition at 3200 fps. I say "was" because I live in central CA and now have to hunt with unleaded bullets. Now I shoot the Barnes 110 grain TTSX at 3600 fps. I feel the 270 WSM gives a real velocity advantage over the 270 Winchester. I find the recoil to be very light and the rifle feeds quite nicely, no problems reloading for it, good case life.

My other WSM is a 300 WSM in a Remington 700XCR.
It is the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation limited edition and I REALLY like this rifle. It handles so well that it carries like it weighes a good deal less than it does. No feeding problems at all, no problems reloading the ammo.
I feel the 300 WSM does just what it is supposed to, that being giving 300 Winchester performance in a short action.

I am pretty much sold on the WSM design. I had a 223 WSSM rifle and it would not shoot for shit, but it was the rifle, not the cartridge design. I find the WSM guns to be easy to work up loads for, I do not have any feeding issues, I get good case life when reloading, etc.

Having said all that, I surely would not go and sell a perfectly good 7mm Rem Mag or 300 Win Mag or anything else just to get one of the WSM rifles. I just ALMOST bought a second 300 WSM last week. I saw a limited edition Remington 700 Boone and Crockett in a store and just about came home with it.

I have a 300WSM on a savage action with a 1" McGowen tube bedded in A3 McMillian. .5" 5 shot groups 168 and 175SMK's repeatable.

I have a 270WSM that I haven't gotten to play with yet.

I also have a 25wssm A-Bolt medallion that shoots all the heavier (110,115,120) premium boolits from .4 - .75 all day. Talking Bergers, Accubond, TSX, and Sierras. Barrel profile is .52 at the muzzle so she heats up way to fast IMHO. So far I have 600ish rounds and still holding that type of accuracy. Really loves the Bergers!

My .270 WSM is a Browning Medalion with a custom stock re-finnish/checker job and I have had no feeding problems with that rifle at all. The rifle is a great shooter (it would have to be or it would'nt be mine for long ) but I found out early in the re-loading that a full-re-size is the only way to go with my rifle. I have a Leupold Vari-X III 2.5x10x40 in Leupold dual dovetail rings for the sighting system.

I have shot many different bullet/powder combinations through the years but have settled on H4831SC and Nosler 140 grn Accubonds.

.

I have a tikka hunter 270 WSM (the one in the pic). Very happy with the accuracy and no feeding problems. I have noted the recoil on the WSMs to be higher. My 270 feels higher than my 300 WM but is manageable. This is my first 270 and it fires a frozen rope out to 320 yards and lays the whitetail out. LOVE IT!!! My only complain is in finding ammo in Canada. My rifle loves Winchester XP3s but it's like being on a treasure hunt to find them here.

As I already own a rle in .300 Win. Mag., I see no reason to buy another in .300 WSM. However, I have shot a Winchester M70 in stardard rifle configuration while helping a fellow get the gun sighted in. He was a newbie that never even owned a gun before and had no idea what to do.
I got him sighted in and he shot really well after a bit of coaching. His rifle was right at MOA to just a bit more at 1 1/8" at 100 yards. My impression was favorable but his rifle weighed just as much as my .300 Win. Mag. so saw no reason to go out of my way and get one.
Then, my ex-son-in-law bought an M70 in the Featherweight configuration and got the task of doing his load work up for the rifle. Recoil was a bit more than my .300 which isn't all that heavy to begin with, but still tolerble. Accurcy with the 165 gr. Noslers he wanted to use was good at 1.25". I asked if he wanted to use 180 gr. bullets as well, but for some reason his rifle did not like any 180 gr. bullet I tried.
Again, I see no need for me to buy a .300 WSM. But, if someone ws in the market for something along those lines, I see no problem with it. The .300's I shot all shot well enough, recoil not too out of line for what you get and the rifles were all nicely put together.
JMHO.
Paul B.

quote:

Originally posted by wildcat junkie:
I think the 375 Rugar is the new age magnum that should have come out before the WSMs.

It's one of those "why didn't I think of that" ideas.

Use the full .532" head diameter for case capacity & make it to fit into an "06" length action.

Now, to have 7mm, & 8mm versions availbale would be great.

Yessiree, the .375 Ruger case necked to .338, .308, and .284 would have been a better idea.

The short actions really aren't that much of an advantage!

I have owned two 270WSM's, one was a Win. Coyote and the other was a Browning. Both were lousy shooters with anything. A 2" group was the best I saw. Had a Ruger #1 in 300 WSM spent a year trying to get it to shoot, no luck. All are down the road now and I won't own another one except to make it into something else. I have a friend that had two Nod. 70's in 300 WSM, same story. We made one into a 300 RSAUM, it shoots .5MOA. The other one is now a 416 WSM and shoots MOA. He had two of the WSSm's and they were far worse. They went down the road.

In our local gun store they don't sell well anymore. I have had people tell me theirs was a tack driver. We go to the range a I find the heads on their tacks are 2" in dia. or larger.

There are too many very good cartridges out there to fight ones like the WSM's.

What I don't quite understand is why the 300 RSAUM shoots so well and the WSM doesn't. I have 4 RSAUM's and all shoot well. I have one that shoots a 2" group, but it's at 500 yds.

Tom

In my humble opinion, which is just and only that: they are a silly marketing ploy and a weird answer to a question nobody asked...

From every one I have talked to here in Idaho, they have issues feeding and don't do anything better. Ditto with the "Me too" Rugers.

A new cartridge needs to actually be an improvement, and none of these short farts do anything, except provide gunwriters something to get all lathered up about for six months. And, get a couple free hunting trips and a new toy.

I've done a few wildcats in my day, mostly to get more velocity for long range Rockchuck shooting. The other ones, big bore mostly, are because I will likely never be able to afford a big bore DR.

They sell a few rifles, but not to new shooters. They do add a lot of neat slightly used rifles to the gun shop shelves every summer.

Rich

Not a fan of the WSM or SAUM lines - they're completely superfluous. IMO, they're a solution to a problem that didn't exist.

I think the assumption that sub-MOA should be almost automatic is quite wrong. On premium rifles, yes, but even then only after load development or factory load trial-and-error. Too many shooters luck into a sub-MOA group one time out of 20 groups and then label their rifle a sub-MOA rifle.

The short mags are incremental improvements - just as have been every single improvement ever made in ammunition. Without incremental improvement, we would be stuck with the 30-30. I don't care to ever own another long-action bolt rifle except where maximum performance is required (as in very heavy bullets needed), where nothing else is available, or when I want to own a classic just for the love of it. Short action is sweet.

"Lets talk turkey for real! What do you really think about the WSMs?"

You mean you only want serious opinions, rather than non-serious opinions?

As already pointed out, the WSM's don't really offer any advanatages to what is presently available and from what I can determine sales of the rifles offered are not what one would call brisk. You see these rifles at discount prices at various gunshops frequently and some dealer friends have told me the distributors offer bigger discounts/dating, etc. to encourage the dealer to stock them. I can see some advantage to a short/stiff action being used for single shot match style shooting, but don't see any advantage to a short action repeating/hunting rifle, but if it is what you want go for it.

Without question the wsm's and the wssm's are fantastic cartridges. The case design is the result of benchrest competition. The cases feed just fine, just like the Ackley Improved or even the great .416 Rigby - dangerous game cartridge with 45 degree shoulder!

They are accurate and cases last forever.

Jim C, You may not like my lead in, and I can understand somewhat. Although, is there reason to waste your time or mine?

I've had numerous wishy washy opinions that were just passing thoughts. Not experienced result oriented, or based on real knowlege. That is the reason I asked the question in a manor that I did.

The answer to your question, yes serious opinions based on experience, not what you read or have heard 3rd or 4th hand.

Just want to make sure everyone understands, the wishy washy opinions I mentioned are not the ones I have asked for on this site. This site is a breath of fresh air to me, and I am proud to be able to discuss with other firearms fans, (most with much more experience than myself).

Thanks for the help!

My response is serious and based on first hand experience. The wsm and wssm line of cartridges are excellent. The actions are short and stiff which by itself is a big plus. The case design is based on benchrest, the most demanding accuracy game on earth.

let me rephrase that then. Everybody I know that went out and bought one has sold it within eight or nine months. Used ones clutter the racks. The new ones in gunshops in the area have cobwebs on them. The ammunition in those shops have spiders nests and dust drifted deep.
The idea behind introducing a new cartridge used to be to provide increased performance. The past fifteen years it has evolved (devolved?) to demonstrations of how short, fat, and sharp shouldered cartridges our brass forming machinery can turn out. So, I'll break it down for you and Buliwyf:

1. The WSSM's alleged velocity increases are less than the variance between individual rifles in caliber.
2. The factories have a propensity to use powders that are not available to the public to keep reloading out of the picture.
3. A 1/4th to even 3/8ths of an inch shorter bolt stroke is as significant as adding or subtracting that much length in your male organ.
4. The long gun market is in the toilet, if you do not count AR-15's.
5. The attempt to tie-in to Bench Rest is ludicrous. They haven't done anything since the 6PPC came out thirty years ago (+/-). Attempts
to make a shorter, fatter case litter the roadside there. They determined a case ratio of diameter to length and are sticking with it.
6. The rifles weigh about the same. Cut weight and recoil goes up.


We are blessed with a lot of opportunities to hunt big game here in Idaho. My Sportsman's Pack this spring entitled me to two or three Deer, two Bear, two Turkey, Elk, and draws could have provided me with Bighorn Sheep, Rocky Mountain Goat, Moose, and Wolf. I've hunted Bison here as well.
I have been doing that for thirty years here. I did some check-site assisting many of those seasons as part of my Hunters Ed Instructor work. I have seen over a thousand Elk the last five years and asked what they were harvested with. WSSMs and SAUMs are non-existent by comparison.

If you like yours, that's fine. I have yet to hear a serious accounting of Elk harvested where the shooter thought only that sacred, holy WSSM/SAUM made the shot possible. Carcass inspection didn't either. That sort of magical case design goes over more where people play with big game rifles than hunt with them; like back east. Years ago, in my trekking days I ran into an elderly Indian and his wife that lived in a cabin waaaay back in the woods. We got to be friends and he showed me his Elk/Deer rifle. Marlin 25-36. I ended up loading for him; he was nearly eighty and was concerned about maybe double charging a case someday with his tong tool and scoop.

Have I covered the subject...?

Rich

Rich

definetly covered Idaho Sharpshooter!

I've been looking at a 300 Win Mag, and am still undecided. As mentioned before, I have two 300 WSMs, have not been sold as to the need or improvement over our other 30 caliber choices. Keep asking myself what I like about them better than my 30 06, or my 308? If given the choice of 300 Win Mag or 300 WSM, would I choose the WSM if I had it to do over? The answer is no. I am going to continue shooting the WSMs for a while, work on loads, and see if I fall in love. I appreciate the info. given by all, and will update my experience with the Model 85 Sako, and the Kimber Montana.

Hoot,

didn't mean to be a butt head, since the 300 H&H came out there have been no meaningful improvements. Sounds like you have some pretty good choices there.

Rich

I've made my opinions known before on this and other boards but here it is again. I have always been a .270 Win. fan and was curious to find out what all the hoopla was, regarding the .270 WSM. Several years ago, I bought a NIB Kimber Montana. Initially, the barrel was touching the forearm and in about a 10 day turnaround, Kimber replaced the stock. Ok, so far. Turns out the rifle won't shoot 150 gr. bullets consistantly for crap, even with a good Leupold scope.
It's been sent out two more times to other smiths for work - even has a new quality barrel. Won't even shoot factory ammo that the suposed targets came with it. One time, I was able to get 5 touching at 100 yds. with Retumbo and a 150 gr. Sierra. I've never been able to replicate that group since. A friend of mine thought that a bit of pressure under the forearm would help so I had him do the job. Still little improvement. I might add that all screws/bolts are tightened to factory specs with a torque wrench.
I have been able to get acceptable hunting accuray with a 130 gr. Partition but I've always used 150's for hunting and want to continue using that bullet.
So far, I've used 9 different powders with different primers and some seating depth variations with no consistancy in accuracy. I must admit that case life and feeding are good and I like the 3 position safety and trigger as well, but performance just plain sucks.
My pre-64 Mod. 70 is bedded in an H-S Precision stock (yes, the stock had to be modified), but it shoots 3/4" groups all day long and was made in 1953. My question is "If a rifle made in 1953 shoots like this, why can't manufacturers, in this day & age, build a consistantly accurate rifle with today's better materials and CNC capabilities?"
You asked for unabashed opinions so here's mine.
No more Kimbers - period!!!
Bear in Fairbanks

I just got back from the range and there was a guy there shooting a 300 WM. He asked me what I had and I said a 300 WSM. He said he has a 270 WSM and loves it.

I am in the process of load development and he was sighting in his 300 WM. After I shot four rounds, two were touching and one was within 1 inch. The other was 3 inches away. I believe that was my fault, not the rifle or ammo. The 300 WM shooter went to look at his target and noticed mine and commented about it. I told him I thought I must have pulled the one shot. I asked how he did and he said he pulled all 4 of his (meaning he didn't do so well).

My rifle is a few months old and I have not had time to get the loads where I want them yet. Factory ammo shot better in my rifle than the shooter with the 300 WM. We both have Remington 700s. I am not saying 300 WSMs are better than 300 WMs, but I can't say the other way around either. The only thing I can say is that I have had a lot fewer problems with my Browning's than this Remington.

I have found the 300 WSM in particular to be finicky about barrel harmonics, which to me means it is picky to develop a load for. I have found that the WSM's in general, and especially the 300 do better with mid weight for caliber bullets, and the 300's I have fooled with, over 10, like lower range powder charges.

A smith I know who really understands fine accuracy rebarrels a lot of WSM's with reverse taper barrels to improve harmonics. I have rebarreled two to heavier contour barrels and have enjoyed excellent accuracy.

As a generalization I really like the WSM's they defintiely do some things other cartridges didn't, and they have a place. It is exactly the opposite of some poster's experience in the southeast, the WSM's are still top sellers, ammo is sold equal in volume to the old classics, which means they sell more per gun given the number of the old classic rifles vs the number of WSM's out there. I work with several different large retailers throughout the southeast and my intel is based on a pretty broad experience.

I like the 270 WSM best, but I also love my regular old 270's 308's etc.

Good luck!

quote:

Jim C, You may not like my lead in, and I can understand somewhat. Although, is there reason to waste your time or mine?

Hoot, you are right, my apoligies. But, it was less the lead in than the whole premise.

Jim C, We're fine, I probably shouldn't of responded the way I did. The problem is, and the reason for asking the way I did, is because I'm sick of the "know it all's" at the gun store, or at the hunting club, or that has heard this or that. You know exactly what I'm talking about. The same ones that tell you, you've really screwed up for not buying the Browning A Bolt instead of the Pre 64 M 70, or the Custom Model 98, or the Sako etc. Any how, as said before, I'm really glad to find a place to visit with guy's that have been there and done it concerning a wide array of calibers, and makes and models.

As stated by some others on here, I'm concerned about my K. Montana. This week will tell the tale. Gonna shoot some factory loads as well as heavier hand loads. (180 gr,) The Sako is shooting fine, just need to dial it in with some loads and bullets it likes best and be ready to hunt.

Hope you have a great season,

Terry

Well hoot, You can throw 'ole Idaho Sharpshooter in with the "know it alls". I could care less what Idaho and his gay Idaho senator think about rifles.

Idaho, your post is about what I would expect from someone with no experience on the subject.

I went out and bought a M-70 in .300 WSM when they first came out. I wanted to try it out and see what all the fan fare was about.

Here were my honest and unbiased opinions on that particular rifle and caliber combo.

Recoil was about the same as any other rifle firing a 180 gr bullet at 2900 or so FPS.

Accuracy was acceptable but not anything special.

It tended to have stiff bolt lift and sticky extraction with most factory ammo.

Feeding could be an issue at times.

You lost one round of capacity over a .300 WM and two over an 06.

Factory ammo was ungodly expensive at the time and brass was hard to come by ( back then).

When resizing brass you had to be careful not to collapse the cases at the shoulder for some reason they tended to want to collapse at times.

Velocity was slightly less that what can be achieved with a standard .300 WM.

My conclusion on the .300 WSM is that it is an expensive version of the .300 WM at lower velocity with tons more hassle and with no appreciable gains in anything meaningful.

I consider almost every WSM to be nothing more than a tourist trap. When you put all the marketing hype aside they don't give you anything that is appreciable or usable to the sportsmen in the field or even a competition accuracy shooter.

They don't recoil less, they aren't more accurate and they don't give more velocity. The only WSM that I find even remotely interesting is the .270 WSM as it promises .270 Weatherby velocity and can be found in some rifles that I like to use.

I own a .243 WSSM. I know your question is about the WSM line, but I love my WSSM and think I have some input you might appreciate. It's a factory Browning A-bolt in the Varmint Stalker configuration. It shoots 1/2" groups with the Nosler BT's I've done load development for. The 70 grainers at 3660 are well below the published max by 2 grains of Win 760 but are the most accurate. The max load suggests over 3800 with that bullet. The 95 grainers get 3250 just like the data says and just like the factory loads state. The velocity is probably 200fps better than with the .243 Winchester.

Just about everybody I know who owns a WSM or WSSM is happy with them. Great accuracy with the factory A-Bolts.

The Nosler Manual's blurb on the .270 WSM touts it as the only cartridge of this caliber attaining Weatherby velocities. One of my friends has one and calls it his "death ray" because it shoots so flat.

Read some of the long range sites (and 6br too I think). The WSM's are becoming a favorite of the 1000 yard shooters. I wonder why

I myselth don't really care for those WSMs. Reason being that I think we have enought rifles
of power but time moves on.

i don't own a short mag, never did, never will, unless a deal comes along that just about gives me one.
so, no actual experience with one. that doesn't mean a person can't have a good inclination about them.
i have never been swayed, impressed, or influenced by any marketing i've read in any shooting rag. i just don't see how someone can be conned by advertisements, period.
sure the short mags work, so do all the other "normal" cartridges. there's really nothing much that's special about them. they're really not a very good interpretation of the short/fat powder column idea, either. they do at least demonstrate that the ackley improved cartridge does have some merit, enough that winchester would try to produce a series of cartridges that follows ackey's theory. sort of a "factory ackley improved" is probably a more accurate definition than "short magnum".... i assume winchester wouldn't dare use ackley's name on one of thier 'NEW" designs....to do that would admit all they did wasa copy something. they're just another way for the manufacturers to get some of the cash away today's up-coming group of shooters who read more and have had the "advantage" of the internet since young but don't have much intrest in the history of shooting.

lead in the air is lead in the air. If it works it works. There are reasons some shoot more accurately and some do not.

Inherantly accurate cartridges don't exist.

The case is not what goes down the bore.

I will buy into an inherantly accurate bullet theory.

Do not confuse effieceint with accurate.

Underbore capacity does not equal accuracy.
Idealy matched bore capacity does not either.
Nor does overbore.

people who buy into that still don't understand what makes accuracy happen.

Bore size is everything. Finish is secondary and determines how long it will shoot before fouled.

Example: I recently installed a new barrel to a 30-06. The original barrel had a land diameter of .301 it would only shoot one factory load under one MOA. For the most part was a 1.5 inch rifle.

The replacement barrel is an obermeyer .298 land.
what a shooter. In my testing it's not shot a group larger than .800

300 WSM just another way to get the lead in the air.
Real accuracy starts with an understanding of what is needed and what is not.

At the rate Winchester rips out rifles I be will to bet the percentage of M-70s that shoot under 1 MOA is maybe 50%.

It is easier to get a misalignment when cutting the chamber in a short fat than a long skinny.
Those who understand machine work can ponder that one a while.

If you feel that your marksmanship is not up to snuff. Get a rifle that you know is very accurate, sub moa with at least 2 factory off the shelf loads.
Then handload for that rifle, you should be easily shooting in the .3's at 100 with it.

Accurate rifles are confidence builders.

You will amaze yourself what you can hit with a .308 Win. That really truely shoots.

Knowing the trajectory and the ability to sight the weapon is where it's at, I don't care if its only 30-30.

30 cal bullets started a 3000 fps don't help much if the trajectory is mystery to the shooter. This goes for shots beyond 400 yds.
Most shelps can fake it to 400. Without RF
After that the range finder is out of its case.
Is range finding game ethical?
Maybe it's better just to paint the game and call in a lazer guided munition.
When do hunters quit being hunters and more like small artillary piece opperators.
Which leads me to another story.
The production of a 1/8 scale German 88 field piece. Build it to fire the magical 6.5 WSM.
Now that would be fun, for a while.
Timan

Why I bought a WSM.

I have been hunting deer and elk in the western states for 20+ years, and up until a couple of years ago, I have borrowed rifles from friends and family. I had some extra coin so I decided to buy my first center fire rifle.

Of the rifles I wanted, the WSM’s are up to a pound lighter (kimber, Sako).

Using factory ammo, (I do not reload), the performance is slightly better. I said slightly, probably not enough to notice in the field, but it is better.

I would also bet that there was more engineering and design into these new calibers, that all other cartridge’s combined. (this is purely my opinion, but I suspect the computer used to design the old ’06 are not up to today’s standard)

There were a few other incidentals that drew me to the WSM over a non-WSM. As for WSM collecting cobwebs and dust, you must be referring to where the products should be sitting. My experience in SE Idaho, over the past few years has been just the opposite. Factory 300 WSM loads are very difficult to come by. Last year in Utah, Cabelas, and Sportsmans were pretty much sold out of the 300 WSM ammo.

This year was probably my dads last year hunting with a rifle. I told him to go ahead and sell his old pre 64 300wm. It’s not even in the same league as my Sako 300WSM.

rcamuglia,
I stealing your friends quote of his 270 WSM being his "death ray". That is exactly how I feel about my 270 WSM. It is an amazing cal. You don't want to be a whitetail in my scope.

Friends-

I own a .264/6.5 WSM and it is my most accurate rifle I own. I would not trade it for the world. That said, I also have some very nice rifles in stantard "classic" cartridges and to me they all have there place or niche.

Now, I will have to say that load development was challenging. I had my reamer ground before the 7mm WSM or the .270 WSM were on the market. Thus, my starting place was .300 WSM brass. So, I necked it down, turned the necks. I couldn't get WW760 to shoot in my rifle but, someone steered me in the direction of Reloader 22 and I can shoot groups in the .3's, which translates to the rifle shoots better than that.

Stuart/Timan, your points are well taken but, I would offer up this as a counter point. The benchrest community would be at odds with your statement that there is not an inherently accurate cartridge, otherwise they would all be shooting different cartridges, but, they don't. For the most part they all shoot the same thing. In addition, the cases have mostly one common denominator, they are "short and fat."

Thanks and good shooting to all.

When you get great groups,it's hard not to like a rifle.My 300 WSM is a shooter.The only thing I don't like is,I have to seat my bullets deep because the magazine is short and so is the throat.This is where a 300 Win Mag has a greater advantage.I like to think of the 300 Wsm as the gap filler between a 30-06 and a 300 Win Mag.It really depends on how you load it as to which one it's closed to. http://www.flickr.com/photos/40165144@N04/3691515191/

300 WSM=Bueno!!!
All others=Not intetested..

I have a 300WSM in a Win mod 70.

Fine gun. Accurate, kills well.

Only issue I see with hunting and wanting to reload is you tend to drop the cartridge on the
mag plate and then push down, but on the WSM's being so short, you end up on the shoulder
on the shoulder and it screws up fast reloading.

Apart from that, all good.

quote:

Originally posted by Timan:
lead in the air is lead in the air. If it works it works. There are reasons some shoot more accurately and some do not.

Inherantly accurate cartridges don't exist.

The case is not what goes down the bore.

I will buy into an inherantly accurate bullet theory.

Do not confuse effieceint with accurate.

Underbore capacity does not equal accuracy.
Idealy matched bore capacity does not either.
Nor does overbore.

people who buy into that still don't understand what makes accuracy happen.

Bore size is everything. Finish is secondary and determines how long it will shoot before fouled.

Example: I recently installed a new barrel to a 30-06. The original barrel had a land diameter of .301 it would only shoot one factory load under one MOA. For the most part was a 1.5 inch rifle.

The replacement barrel is an obermeyer .298 land.
what a shooter. In my testing it's not shot a group larger than .800

300 WSM just another way to get the lead in the air.
Real accuracy starts with an understanding of what is needed and what is not.

At the rate Winchester rips out rifles I be will to bet the percentage of M-70s that shoot under 1 MOA is maybe 50%.

It is easier to get a misalignment when cutting the chamber in a short fat than a long skinny.
Those who understand machine work can ponder that one a while.

If you feel that your marksmanship is not up to snuff. Get a rifle that you know is very accurate, sub moa with at least 2 factory off the shelf loads.
Then handload for that rifle, you should be easily shooting in the .3's at 100 with it.

Accurate rifles are confidence builders.

You will amaze yourself what you can hit with a .308 Win. That really truely shoots.

Knowing the trajectory and the ability to sight the weapon is where it's at, I don't care if its only 30-30.

30 cal bullets started a 3000 fps don't help much if the trajectory is mystery to the shooter. This goes for shots beyond 400 yds.
Most shelps can fake it to 400. Without RF
After that the range finder is out of its case.
Is range finding game ethical?
Maybe it's better just to paint the game and call in a lazer guided munition.
When do hunters quit being hunters and more like small artillary piece opperators.
Which leads me to another story.
The production of a 1/8 scale German 88 field piece. Build it to fire the magical 6.5 WSM.
Now that would be fun, for a while.
Timan

Damn good post. So true!