Hi guys! Next year I plan two hunting trips - to British Columbia and Alaska. The problem is that all of my rifles I own are wooden stocked (Here in Europe is a common feature)
So I need something that can withstand the harsh conditions there. Therefore I want to order rifle in the U.S. that would suit my needs.
The premise is a synthetic stocked rifle ideally on mauser action chambered for the 8mm-06. I am not a huge fan of stainless steel tubes so I expect that the rifle builder rather offers me some black tough coating. I am willing to spend for the project max $10.000. I have read some topics about Kenny Jarrett rifles, Brown Precision etc. For that amount of money I really expect an appropriate workmanship. Could you share your experiences?

quote:

Originally posted by CZ:
Hi guys! Next year I plan two hunting trips - to British Columbia and Alaska. The problem is that all of my rifles I own are wooden stocked (Here in Europe is a common feature)
So I need something that can withstand the harsh conditions there. Therefore I want to order rifle in the U.S. that would suit my needs.
The premise is a synthetic stocked rifle ideally on mauser action chambered for the 8mm-06. I am not a huge fan of stainless steel tubes so I expect that the rifle builder rather offers me some black tough coating. I am willing to spend for the project max $10.000. I have read some topics about Kenny Jarrett rifles, Brown Precision etc. For that amount of money I really expect an appropriate workmanship. Could you share your experiences?

Nothing wrong with Kenny Jarrett, he's been known to saw rifles in half if he's not satisfied and start over again. Now that that's out of the way, it isn't necessary to spend 10 grand on a rifle to hunt in the far north. First and foremost is utter reliability. You want something that absolutely will not fail no matter what. Based in what you said, if it was me, I would use a Ruger as a starting point but there are other good choices as well. If you want to go the custom route, I would look for somebody that understands the north and what you'll be up against.

I will give you a personal recommendation, and it is based on my having dealt with them on a number of occasions. They started out as taking over the family sporting goods business and over time evolved into doing repairs to now they make the entire package. The two brothers are both avid hunters and base their work on what they know works and also the climate and terrain. Here is the link

http://www.rockymountainrifles.com/home.php

Just get a chrome molly action/barrel and have it coated with WCC the best of the best and no need to spend 10,000
Daniel

quote:

Originally posted by CZ:
Hi guys! Next year I plan two hunting trips - to British Columbia and Alaska. The problem is that all of my rifles I own are wooden stocked (Here in Europe is a common feature)
So I need something that can withstand the harsh conditions there. Therefore I want to order rifle in the U.S. that would suit my needs.

The premise is a synthetic stocked rifle ideally on mauser action chambered for the 8mm-06. I am not a huge fan of stainless steel tubes so I expect that the rifle builder rather offers me some black tough coating. I am willing to spend for the project max $10.000. I have read some topics about Kenny Jarrett rifles, Brown Precision etc. For that amount of money I really expect an appropriate workmanship. Could you share your experiences?

If you choose to build a carbon steel rifle, all that is needed for corrosion protection is a treatment with the QPQ process (QPQ). It runs about $350 and makes a firearm virtually corrosion-proof in any environment a human can withstand. The resulting finish is a nice deep black color completely appropriate for the purpose. It is the standard finish on many service duty side arms today. It's also used on things like shock absorber rods and hydraulic ram rods that must remain smooth over a very long period to seal fluids.

This is a 300 Wby with a QPQ finish on a SAKO L-61R receiver:

I would just take the rifle out of the stock and wipe all metal parts and the stock down with Johnson's paste wax.

I have used that twice on wet weather hunts and never a problem.

Every night I squirt WD-40 down the bore and then wipe it out.

No rust anywhere on either of my trips.

Save the $10k and go on another trip.

Good choice on 8mm-06. Earlier this year I also had one built. I had my Remington 700 rebarreled by Pac-Nor with a 23" 1-9 twist barrel. I then sent it to APW Cogan to be hard chromed in a matte finish. After that, I put on a McMillan stock and a Leupold 2.5x8 scope. The gun turned out exactly as I hoped and shoots accurately. The whole thing cost me about $2500. I don't think it matters too much whether you choose a chrome or stainless barrel since you are going to have it coated anyway, but if you are going for a weather resistant rifle, remember that the inside of the barrel will not be coated, so stainless does offer some additional resistance. Here's a picture of my gun:

Nothing uglier than a SS rifle in a plastic stock. Especially if you put a 55mm scope on it. If you go that route, sell the rifle as soon as the hunt is over. It will save you embarassment later when you show folks around your gun locker.
They hunted in Alaska for a lot of years with real rifles by taking a bit of care. As posted, Black T and Johnson's paste wax is good stuff.

10k on a wet weather rifle? I can see 10k on an entry level DR, or MAYBE 5k on a very nice customer bolt with very fine wood....but 10K is way too much. Honestly, you can get what you want from a factory rifle for under 1K, and for sure under 2k. There HAS to be someone in Europe you can order a synthetic stocked rifle from...CZ, Sauer, Steyr...and you can have it done up in 8-06 at home by a 'smith you trust. Really no difference to be concerned about with a 3006 compared to the 8-06....what a couple hundredths of an inch? For that matter, no real difference between the 3006 and 8mm Mauser.

Another, easier, way more cost effective option is to buy whatever you like at home, lets say CZ and order a synthetic stock for it, and have it coated with something water resistant.

There, I just saved you like 8800$, you can thank me by taking me on the hunt as well lol.

CZ,

Just realized something I'll share with you in PM!

quote:

Originally posted by tiggertate:

If you choose to build a carbon steel rifle, all that is needed for corrosion protection is a treatment with the QPQ process (QPQ). It runs about $350 and makes a firearm virtually corrosion-proof in any environment a human can withstand. The resulting finish is a nice deep black color completely appropriate for the purpose. It is the standard finish on many service duty side arms today. It's also used on things like shock absorber rods and hydraulic ram rods that must remain smooth over a very long period to seal fluids.

Do you have a contact for such a rifle treatment?

quote:

Originally posted by ChopperGuy:

quote:

Originally posted by tiggertate:

If you choose to build a carbon steel rifle, all that is needed for corrosion protection is a treatment with the QPQ process (QPQ). It runs about $350 and makes a firearm virtually corrosion-proof in any environment a human can withstand. The resulting finish is a nice deep black color completely appropriate for the purpose. It is the standard finish on many service duty side arms today. It's also used on things like shock absorber rods and hydraulic ram rods that must remain smooth over a very long period to seal fluids.

Do you have a contact for such a rifle treatment?

Tip Burns, has done a couple of QPQ jobs for me and they have been flawless.

http://www.canyonsportingarms.com/



Ed

i totally agree with you a nitride surface hardening will make a chrom moly rifle more rust resistance than stainless steel and looks very much better ,
yes

I was going to ask the same thing about that QPQ! Looked for a while but only found guys doin this stuff on 1911's

I'm curious about your choice of calibers. The 8mm-06 was something done in the U.S. to surplus military Mausers to utilize available '06 brass. You have to reload to use this caliber. I would think that something with factory ammo available would be more practical. I would suggest 30-06, or a .338 or .300 magnum. Someone like Charlie Sisk will build whatever you want, but these rifles are available over the counter here. Sako makes excellent rifles in a stainless/synthetic configuration.

Are you having a rifle built, Thats what it sounds like.

quote:

Originally posted by ChopperGuy:

quote:

Originally posted by tiggertate:

If you choose to build a carbon steel rifle, all that is needed for corrosion protection is a treatment with the QPQ process (QPQ). It runs about $350 and makes a firearm virtually corrosion-proof in any environment a human can withstand. The resulting finish is a nice deep black color completely appropriate for the purpose. It is the standard finish on many service duty side arms today. It's also used on things like shock absorber rods and hydraulic ram rods that must remain smooth over a very long period to seal fluids.

Do you have a contact for such a rifle treatment?

Mine was done through Tip Burns as well.

Mauser 98 action, rustoleum paint in 30-06 with a stainless barrel. Stocked to suit yourself also sealed and painted.

quote:

Originally posted by Winchester 69:
I'm curious about your choice of calibers. The 8mm-06 was something done in the U.S. to surplus military Mausers to utilize available '06 brass. You have to reload to use this caliber. I would think that something with factory ammo available would be more practical. I would suggest 30-06, or a .338 or .300 magnum. Someone like Charlie Sisk will build whatever you want, but these rifles are available over the counter here. Sako makes excellent rifles in a stainless/synthetic configuration.

Why 8-06
1. Despite the fact that I have taken 80% of game with the 7x57 I lean toward bigger bullets but not necessarily heavier recoil
2. I see almost 400fps velocity difference between the 30/06 and 8mm with 220gr bullets
3. I am heavy bullet guy so I want to try 250gr Woodleigh that would give surely tremendous penetration
4. I just wanted something else (yes, I know there are 9 or .375…)
5. I like especially cartridges wit longer neck – there might be an influence from the British-styled cartridges like 333 Jeffery or 318 WR

Fair enough! CZ I will be sending you another PM with the contact info I gathered for you on those exporters. Hopefully it helps you get exactly what you want!

I see a lot of commentary here from people who do not live in BC or AK and probably have never been here. Fair enough, this forum is more interesting because of varied opinions.

I have 45+ years of hunting, remote wilderness work/living, often alone for 3 month stints without a break here in BC and have worked in/been in northern Alberta, the NWT and Alaska. I was just in northern BC a couple of months ago packing a rifle in pouring rain.

To date, I have owned/used well over 100 big game rifles and, including my combo guns, have 32 in my safes at present, from .264Mag. to .458Win. I have carried a rifle, all day, every day, for months on end and, as might be expected, have some firm opinions on this issue.

First, the wildcat 8mm/06 is a VERY poor choice for use here as you CANNOT obtain a supply of ammo, should yours go missing and this HAPPENS. It is simply not a wise idea to bring a wildcat to BC, if on a flying hunt.

There are two "best" rounds for the ONE rifle BC hunter and these will do fine in AK, from what I saw there. IF, you are "recoil-sensitive", then, get a .30-06, load it with 180 Nosler Partitions over sufficient H-4350 and Win. Mag. primers in Win. brass to reach 2750 fps-mv and good accuracy...this is easy to do and it WORKS on every game species we have here.

My preference, IF, you are not bothered by the recoil, is the superb .338WM, loaded with Nosler 250 Partitions over H-4350 and as above. I carry one of my five .338s almost all of the time and seldom want another rifle-cartridge combo...it just does the job and I prefer the heavier bullet to a .300 Mag. in Grizzly country and a .30-06 to a .300 Mag, for lighter recoil when using lighter bullets.

I WOULD have a full custom Mauser built for this and by THE gunmaker in BC who is far beyond any others in skill and results, IMO. I would use a GOOD Mauser action, two identical scopes in QD mounts, Recknagel iron sights and a McMillan synthetic stock. I WOULD use a stainless barrel by choice for this type of rifle and keep it as light as possible, 9 lb. .30-06s and 10 lb. .338s are TOO DAMM heavy to pack up BC mountains or Alaskan ones.

I would also have a simple "spare parts" kit made up of pre-fitted parts and keep it with me in base camp. This is easy to do and well worth the effort. Your gunmaker should do this as the rifle is built.

Go to www.martiniandhagengunmakers.com and Ralf is THE man to build what you need for BC/AK; he is a German originally, has lived in northern BC, hunted in BC and is a hell of a nice guy and an AWESOME gunmaker. I have hunted with rifles he built and am having several projects done by him, as time and funds permit...make SURE he adjusts your extractor beak to allow a round to be dropped in and chambered...there are bears here.........

I would expect to pay less than what you have in mind for this, but, this is THE way to go for a practical hunting rifle for a person in your position. You "might" consider an identical pair for about this sum and that would be my preference, two matched .338s or .30-06s.

Contact Ralf and he can do what you need and you will be happy with the results when you crest a BC ridge and run into a Grizzly, face to face and this happens here quite often.

quote:

First, the wildcat 8mm/06 is a VERY poor choice for use here as you CANNOT obtain a supply of ammo, should yours go missing and this HAPPENS. It is simply not a wise idea to bring a wildcat to BC, if on a flying hunt.

In my opinion, this is not a practical argument. I've hunted with outfitters in several continents in some very remote places where replacement ammo is scarce. First of all, the odds of losing your ammunition is very, very low. It has never happened to me nor anyone that I know. Second, it is easier to borrow a gun than find replacement ammo in remote places, so whether you have a wildcat or a 30-06 or some other caliber doesn't make a difference to the borrowed gun. This has been true in all my travels out of country and also true in the out of state trips, where it can also be very remote. Take whatever caliber that is sufficient and you prefer, regardless of whether it is a wildcat and there is no practical reason to think twice about it. This argument against wildcats also is sometimes used against calibers such as the 35 whelen or 338-06 and it is just as invalid with those calibers too.

quote:

Originally posted by duckboat:

quote:

First, the wildcat 8mm/06 is a VERY poor choice for use here as you CANNOT obtain a supply of ammo, should yours go missing and this HAPPENS. It is simply not a wise idea to bring a wildcat to BC, if on a flying hunt.

In my opinion, this is not a rpractical argument. I've hunted with outfitters in several continents in some very remote places where replacement ammo is scarce. First of all, the odds of losing your ammunition is very, very low. It has never happened to me nor anyone that I know. Second, it is easier to borrow a gun than find replacement ammo in remote places, so whether you have a wildcat or a 30-06 or some other caliber doesn't make a difference to the borrowed gun. Take whatever caliber that is sufficient and you prefer, regardless of whether it is a wildcat and there is no practical reason to think twice about it.

I don't know what continents you've been to but I have to take Dewey's side on this one both on oddball wildcats and his choices of .338 WM and the .30-06. We've both spent a lot of time in the north and one thing you try to do is minimize your chances of something going wrong. That is absolutely the wrong climate to screw around with.

Cobra, have you or do you know anyone who has lost their ammo while traveling to a remote location? Second, would you agree it is easier to find a replacement gun than find replacement ammo in remote places? Would you also say the 35 Whelen is a risky choice?

quote:

Originally posted by duckboat:
Cobra, have you or do you know anyone who has lost their ammo while traveling to a remote location? Second, would you agree it is easier to find a replacement gun than find replacement ammo in remote places? Would you also say the 35 Whelen is a risky choice?

Yes I do know people that have had ammo gone astray to remote locations. Maybe in a warmer climate you could find a replacement gun more easily but in the remote north the chances are very slim. The .35 Whelen will handle most game up there but for the reasons I stated earlier not a wise choice. The farther north you go, the .338 WM is almost universal meaning everyone carries ammo for it even in remote places. If you can handle a .35 Whelen, you can handle a .338 WM, why take the chance?

Duckboat, what practical reason would there possibly be to bring something like an 8mm-06 to BC to go on a remote wilderness hunt? Apart from the fact that it is no more capable than the .30-06 and less so than the .338WM., the ammo issue IS one I have witnessed and more than once.

I will not go on one of these trips without a matched pair of rifles and I HAVE experienced issues with my rifle, twice on past trips. So, it seems to me that my suggestions are both realistic and based on experience in the north, starting in 1966 and on-going as I will likely go to the remote Yukon-NWT border this coming summer.

No offence intended to you, but, I just do not see WHY you would argue this point as there is no reason to prefer a wildcat with the cartridges available that I suggested. But, I would ask, just how much time have you spent in BC and AK?

Why would anyone have a costly custom rifle built if he were willing to ask for the loan of an un-familiar rifle he is not familiar with if his ammo is lost? Such as rifle will not be sighted for him and may well be one he finds difficult to shoot well....it sure as hell WILL NOT be a highend custom piece!

Dewey, I look at it differently. I just don't see a practical reason not to bring a wildcat, a 35 whelen, a 338-06, or some other uncommon cartridge. I have never been to the Yukon, such as you have, but I have been to some remote places in Africa, Europe, and states such as Wyoming, Idaho, and Montana where there isn't a country store for many hours away. I have never lost my ammo nor known anyone who has. Even if I did lose my ammo, the outfitter would have an easier time locating a gun to borrow rather than drive or fly to buy some ammo at a store.

It is a red herring in my opinion. Using your logic, guys should never bring anything except a 338 or a 30-06. 35 Whelens, 300 Weatherby, or other less common cartridges would have no place in remote locations. That just doesn't make sense to me.

Traveling with a pair of matched rifles is something I've never done. I just take one rifle that can do the job. Maybe if I was hunting drastically different game, I would bring two rifles, but bringing matching rifles in 338 and 30-06 makes no sense to me because these two cartridges have so much overlap in capability.

quote:

Originally posted by duckboat:
Dewey, I look at it differently. I just don't see a practical reason not to bring a wildcat, a 35 whelen, a 338-06, or some other uncommon cartridge. I have never been to the Yukon, such as you have, but I have been to some remote places in Africa, Europe, and states such as Wyoming, Idaho, and Montana where there isn't a country store for many hours away. I have never lost my ammo nor known anyone who has. Even if I did lose my ammo, the outfitter would have an easier time locating a gun to borrow rather than drive or fly to buy some ammo at a store.

It is a red herring in my opinion. Using your logic, guys should never bring anything except a 338 or a 30-06. 35 Whelens, 300 Weatherby, or other less common cartridges would have no place in remote locations. That just doesn't make sense to me.

The only time it would make sense would be if you're a native of the area and even then I wouldn't recommend it. Personally, I would not take a borrowed rifle that I had to bet my life on. I guess the only way for you to understand would be to book a hunt up here and see for yourself what you can run into. I'm betting you will have a whole different outlook.

Cobra, I plan on taking a trip in 2012 up north for brown bear. Everytime I have traveled, I have gotten a different outlook on life, so maybe someday I will have the same opinion as you. I have shot some of the more common cartridges like the 300 WM and the 338, but I prefer the 8mm-06 and the 35 whelen. I plan on taking the Whelen with me on my bear hunt.

What is Dewey doing over here? He usually spends all of his time ranting about how much he hates foreigners killing "his" Canadian game, especially Americans. And how much he would like to see it outlawed.
And now here he is trolling up business for one of his buddies. ROFLMAO
FWIW, I've never heard of a outfitter that didn't keep a loaner rifle handy becauae shit does happen.

How about a Kimber 84M Montana in 338 Federal or the 8400 Montana in 325 WSM? Zero a pair of VX-3 1.75-6x in Talley QDs and you're out the door for around $2000 USD.

Well, I am not going to argue with anyone over this, I use two identical rifles in .338WM for all fly-in and horsepack trips and have done for decades. I am not, however, a "dude hunter" as they are called in northern BC and have spent enough time in various outfitter's camps to know just what they do and do not have.

It is immaterial to me what any hunter brings here, I merely thought I might offer an opinion based on many years of actual experience in the regions the OP wishes to hunt in.

It is interesting, however, how adamant about this issue those who have never been here are and I think that "Cobra" has about the right attitude. No point in wasting more time and energy arguing.

quote:

is interesting, however, how adamant about this issue those who have never been here are and I think that "Cobra" has about the right attitude.

Dewey, it is interesting that you decided to close with that point. You emphasized that point 4 or 5 times during this thread. I do appreciate the opinions of people with experience in BC. I also realize that BC is not the only remote place in the world, so people's experience with common or not common ammunition in other parts of the world also has some meaning. By the way, it seems that you are the one most adamant about the issue.

8mm-06 does nothing that 30-06 won't. Nothing. Except offer a smaller range of projectiles and a lower BC.

About two years ago I bought a 30-06 Ruger stainless all-weather 77 MKII for under $400 from a guy who apparantly needed the money. It was supposed to be a donor action, but it shoots so well that I just use it as it is. A guy ought to have at least one 30-06 - right? It's accurate, and 100% reliable, and good truck, four-wheeler and boat gun, which I don't worry about if it is with me in the rain all day, and I can't clean or dry it right away.

Let's see - I could buy 25 such rifles for $10,000. Or perhaps buy one, and use the remaining $9,600 to buy a good used scope, a new sling, and case and some ammo and for hunting trips. Hummm.

KB

I have been looking for one of those in .338WM or .30-06, the model with the iron sights as well as scope rings for 3-4 years now. They just are KEPT by every BC bushguy who was smart enough to buy one!

I want to get a .338, chop it to 22" and load 250NPs over H-4350, change to a Micky stock and use a "buttcuff" and have the trigger done plus add a Leupy 4x with HD. Then, I can beat on it without feeling guilty as I did when a little rust formed on one of my cherry P-64 original Alaskans in .338 two months ago.

Sure is funny how so many locals in BC and AK want those rifles, eh?

I have hunted in BC, Alaska and Africa. My brother lives in Alaska and hunts with a 35 Whelen and a 338-06. On my first and second trip to Africa I was told that I shouldn't take a 30-378 Weatherby because I couldn't get ammo for it in Africa. I think I have shot about 30 animals in Africa with that caliber because that is what I wanted to hunt with. Both camps had camp guns if there was a problem with mine. On my last trip to Africa I carried a 375H&H (since it was common in Africa) and my ammo got lost for 3-4 days. We could not find any 375H&H ammo anywhere near camp. I used the PH's spare 338WM. I generally make sure that a spare rifle will be available if needed and then carry what I want to use. Anytime you hunt remote areas, that issue needs to be considered and alternatives considered.

Dewey,
out of interest, How many times have you lost ammo?

quote:

Originally posted by Dewey:
They just are KEPT by every BC bushguy who was smart enough to buy one!

Sure is funny how so many locals in BC and AK want those rifles, eh?

Yea, I bought the 06 from a native guy in SE Alaska. My favorite "tool" for deer hunting & bush whacking is a Ruger much as you described - in 308, with a Leupold 4x HD, Hogue stock, Timney trigger. I use it when I know the going is gonna be wet and tough, and mostly after the snow or when I'm boating, because in such situations bear encounters are far less likely. Although if needed, the 308 would probably be ok for a bear. Probably !!!

I was thinking of rebarreling the Ruger 30-06 to 9.3x62 to make a summer and early season bush whacker, for when bears are about.

KB

CZ

H&K used to advertise their "black" rifles for the conditions you mention.

2 cents