HOTCORE, I appreciate your topic on the 700.

I referred my OP as to Rem NOT stating in their literature anything about a stainless action, or barreled action, on the model SEVEN.

As to the bolt handle, my friends, I guess you would have to actually experience it yourself to understand. Once one does, your opinion may differ.

I think it's obvious each one's opinion is formed on THEIR individual experience, and those around them. Maybe my defective Rem's were mfg on Monday's, while the better one's were made on Wednesday's, who knows.

As to the posters who cannot fathom a Rem bolt handle breaking, you would share the same look in disbelief that I had when I looked at the handle when I grabbed it to cycle the action, and it came up in my hand, UNATTACHED to the bolt body after firing the first shot at the range that day. That VERY shot would have been the shot in Colorado a week earlier had I had a bull elk present, and it would have been my ONLY shot, as the back up gun was in the camp.

I too was in disbelief, but Murphy's law hit the achilles heel on MY Remington rifle. I won't allow the opportunity for it to happen again, as I CAN control that variable. And yes, I do trust a Ruger more than a Remington on reliability. Obviously I never seen nor heard a Ruger fail, until seeing some posts by some loyal rem fans.

May the rifle of YOUR choice perform 100% in the moment of truth my friends. Thanks for sharing your experiences.

quote:

Originally posted by 6.5BR:
HOTCORE,


RELIABILITY is one area I will not accept less than 100% on a hunting rifle, and Remington has failed me, and lost me as a customer. It is that simple. Nothing can change that.


I simply asked the question, but it amazes me that people refuse to accept the truth and facts of MY experiences with Remington.

DM, I truly wish no bad for you or anyone, especially when after dangerous game to have a failure in the field.

I wonder if my butt got eaten by a grizzly and a lawyer was in court with Remington showing that failed defectively ENGINEERED and Manufactured bolt handle, along with all the facts and analysis of what was involved in the SUB Par mfg of my bolt on that 700, WHO would win?

NO, it would not help me, but if the facts were presented, and say I had a good first shot but the bear ate me because I could not cycle the gun, what gives I ask you all?

Nothing, Remington would lose the case, though I'd still be 6ft under.

I will be darned if I ever take a Remington rifle EVER on a serious big game hunt PERIOD.

That is MY opinion, MY choice, based on MY experiences.

You all can do whatever makes you happy. Why would Remington coat a stainless receiver yet fail to Pin or change the mfg of HOW they produce bolt handles/body?

Perhaps the failure rate is 'acceptable' to their standards but ONE failure of a bolt handle is COMPLETELY unacceptable, period. Now as to the new triggers, they are an improvement out of the box in weight required to release the firing pin, YET I believe a re-design was to change the safety risk as it is engineered to not have as many or the same issues as the original Rem trigger design, that has costs them many lawsuits, and owners loss of limb or life. Those costs get passed on to all new Remington products as you might can imagine.

Rem got big by making good guns of yesterday, but I have not witnessed a change in their thinking since the quality control issues that began in the 90's that was when I was plaqued with poor mfg defects in MANY 700's newly mfg and purchased.

I am not alone in what happened to my Rem, as I have heard of others, albeit however rare it is, I have YET to hear of one Winchester, Howa, Savage, Ruger, Sako or other brand rifle have a bolt handle fail. A bolt action is USELESS when a handle comes off I can assure you and all the self claimed 'most accurate rifle' out of the box marketing crap cannot help it go Bang.

Folks, I do not argue with YOUR experience, but because mine varies, that does not make ANYTHING I have said something other than the truth. I am completely aware of the loyal Rem owners out there and hope you don't have the headaches Rem rifles gave me as I myself don't spend money to acquire problem products, and Rem lack of quality in the past has conditioned me to not go down that road again. I am sure there must be at least ONE Remington employee lurking out there on these forums, with propaganda.

My experience that I state comes from truth. Like it or not, it is what it is.

Be glad most you who responded have not shared the same, and I hope you don't have to.

Well "6.5", at the risk of being flamed (again) for my opinions on the Rem 700 family, I'll totally agree with you . As a gunsmith for 40 years or so, I've seen numerous failures as you described. They solder the bolt handle on because it's cheap to build it that way. Most of the ones I've seen have come off because the shooter tried to force it after a hot load locked up the action due to poor engineering: again that my opinion. Some have just come off with normal cycling of the bolt and poor workmanship. Everything about the action was/is designed for cheap manufacture. The stamped sheet metal recoil lug, the round stock receiver, the cheap sheet metal riveted extractor & (not the least) the trigger which is responsible for more accidental discharges than all the other BA rifles combined. (reported). The list goes on.
Not that I'm anti Remington. I love their shotguns & they made some good 22's over the years. And I see they now have a well designed CF BA rifle.... the 798 .
Thos are just my opinions, but I do a lot of work on Remingtons and I guess I should love them for that...

I respect you having the courage to speak up, on your experience. I have to say, Rem has made many ACCURATE rifles, along with those lemons that defy your belief why some have done so poorly. That is reliability aside.

Now I believe the 'basic fundamental action' has many characteristics that obviously have demonstrated potential for accuracy, which is why many companies copy it, but I have seen custom 'copy cat actions' such as one I looked over at the SHOT show with improvements to the extractor, though I did not check on how the bold handle was done, I BELIEVE it was a one piece bolt/handle.

My 700 never had a hot load sieze or cause difficult bolt lift nor extraction. When my handle failed, I simply shot, then reached for the handle which fell free in my hand. I thought, SIMPLY UNBELIEVABLE. Right then and there, I was about done with Rem and sold the rifle. The buyer loved the accuracy, which it had, albeit with a HART barrel.

But accuracy alone does not a rifle make in my book. I never had a problem with 870 pumps, and never a bad thing to say about 541 or 600 or 788 as to reliability and accuracy experienced.

I do think it is ashame that a company drops say the 541 to replace it with a much inferior product. Browning continues building quality in their 22's and raises prices to cover their overhead.

I'll pay for quality if I get value, but won't buy shoddy product regardless of price. For most users the 700 may likely serve well, but it isn't worth possible future headaches to try risking any more problems, and that is me.

Hey, I guess it is like a woman that keeps cheating on you. After awhile, you learn your expectations are not being met, so you learn and move on. I felt cheated by Rem too many times.

Because of that, I own a great 77/22 and other Rugers, still a few Rems, and will likely buy shotguns from Beretta, and others in the future. Because I was burned by one product repeatedly by one mfg, I chose to change my buying to other brands. I think for the money, a little more money than Rem will buy you a Sako, same money or less a Tikka, or Ruger, and for less money a Howa or Vanguard of solid quality materials and workmanship with solid accuracy. There are choices, but I realize Rem like Leupold have built a foundation of loyal customers who think the brand name guarantees satisfactory performance/quality. Sometimes it happens, sometimes not, and I realize there is nothing perfect.

Oh, CZ and others also build good guns, like Savage, which many feel are the best shooting guns for the money. Kimber seems to be a great value also if a light weight rifle is desired. The New TC bolt looks great from my once over at the SHOT show, though there needs to be more cartridge offerings, sure they are coming. I can imagine all the TC satisfied owners of Encores, Contenders, Black Powder will give the ICON a try, and not be disappointed. Eroding market share is what makes competition healthy among mfg's who strive to keep and grow market share, and improvements to their products will be made if deemed a worthy Return on Investment.

There are options, and owners of other brands testify to other brands having good quality. At the same time, those that have had impeccable results from a brand, even if Remington, cannot be blamed for continuing their loyalty, I realize that. My former bro n law wanted to get his son a 22, and looked hard at a 597, myself, I think it was junk. The local Rem authorized repair center gunsmith advised he could not get parts, just replace the whole action, said himself it was junk.

I realize companies have to make a profit, but I think they overlook that consumers WILL pay more, if they get a fair shake in quality, performance, and value. I believe a bulk of Rem's quality issues were in the 90's and perhaps thing have been improved, yet I doubt today's rifles are better, and maybe not as good as those mfg in early 90's and before. I look at say a Howa, and have to believe they took a look at the Rem action and went steps further. Extractor beefier, finish much better, even below stock line, and when I look at overall workmanship, its like Browning, never found/seen a bad flawed barrel, crown, inside railway of action rough, etc. I know Rem's success and huge volume helps nothing in quality control, yet Browning is consistent and high volume I am sure, yet the Japanese i.e. Miroku aka Browning and Howa and other foreign mfg learned long ago, build a better product, less or same price, offer outstanding value product and back it up with service and it = SUCCESS.

It is worth noting that Rem did away with key locks as they lost too many sales. Sako did also, and I was VERY surprised they even attempted it, but they learned quickly. I don't like current Smith's and Taurus revolvers due to 'key locks' which is unsightly and potential for a problem non existant in pre-lock guns.

I am all for voting with consumer dollars and we all benefit with better products, better value.

Thanks Brayhaven for being 'brave' enough to stand up. I know many rem fans like to flame nay sayers, but also realize many former Rem owners who opted to try other products prefer not to chime in and stand criticism for speaking up against the rem mainstream.

I simply share MY experiences and posts, and truly enjoy reading others, even when it differs from mine. I don't want to be limited in my vision.

You all have a great day and weekend. Get out and enjoy some range/field time.

I just read my Feb, March issue of Eastmans' Hunting Journal.

It's the 16th annual mule deer issue. Some say that the mule deer is the hardest animal to put in the book right now.

Out of the 9 hunts that were done with centerfire rifles guess which rifle was used by 7 of the trophy hunters= REMINGTON 700.

Now why would hard core trophy hunters that spend so much time, money, and use their once in a lifetime tags to hunt, use a rifle that is so prone to failures?

If you missed this issue of Eastmans' dont worry I'm sure the next issue will show other hunters sucessfully taking once in a lifetime trophies with REMINGTON 700's.

Actually last year I did see a bolt handle come off.This was at the rifle range. A fellow was going out west to hunt,he set up fired one round,pulled the bolt back and the bolt came off in his hand.Think it was a 300rum.
This is not to take sides with anyone just what I did wittness.
I have a lot of rem rifles,and some of them are the most accrute I have,I also have other brands that I like just as well.The last 2 years I have bought 3 savages,2 tikkas,and 2 remington sps,one blue and one stainless,both will shoot one hole groups sometimes.I shoot a lot and don't judge a rifle by who made it,judge by how it shoots.If I did get one and the bolt handle came off I would be upset but don't think it would keep me from getting another one,same goes with problems with other brands.One of the tikkas wouldn't shoot,I sent it back and they fixed it,now it shoots great and I am wanting another one in different caliber.
My sps stainless doesn't have a slick finish but does look like it is stainless.??Sure would like to have a few more of them.