I accidently bought a fii 2.5 Leupold scout scope so now I'm thinking about turning a 308 m700fs into a scout rifle. Has anyone tried the burris scout rifle mount?? how about a marlin 1895 with an AO mount?

You'll find opinions on both sides of this question. HunterJim has decided against Scout scopes, while I still like them.

I'd caution against the Burris mount, which requires holes drilled into the barrel right over the chamber and fitting the bottom of the base to the barrel contour.

A better choice is the XS Sight Systems Ashley/Clifton mount, a variant of my Ching Ring concept, for your M700FS. You'll need to turn a cylindrical section on your barrel just forward of the receiver ring and relieve the stock slightly, but my prototype rifles with Ching Rings all seem to shoot better afterwards. My hypothesis is that the additional stiffness provided by the Ching Ring contributes to that.

The quickest, cheapest, and reversible approach, of course, is the XS Sight Systems mount on the Marlin 1895 if all you're interested in doing at this point is to test the concept for yourself.

http://www.xssights.com/store/scope.html

I made one up on a 98 08 action with a 2x Burris scope. It takes getting used to, but they work for what they were intended, i.e., everything from defense to hunting, light, fast sight aquistion, magazine charged from stripper clips. I think from my purposes, a slightly higher scope magnafication--say 3 to 4x-- would be better

I've a scout K98 in 9,3x62 + Leupold 2x EER in modified Burris mounts. Works well for running shots when drive hunting wild boar.I used it as my foul weather rile, when I don't want to expose my 9,3x74R double.

Nowadays however, I favour my Blaser R93 + Swarovski "battue" scope which is faster on repeat shots :

Though, for fast delivery of 2 aimed shots, nothing beats the double rifle.

Tom,

The Scout Rifle concept illustrates the difference between theory and practice. In theory there is no difference, in practice there is. The original design specification was developed by a committee, original testing was done on square ranges between 8:00a and 5:00p.

I wrote a review of the scout concept for Sniper Country 5 years+ ago, and it is still there. I continue to hunt with my Steyr Scout, but I use only low-power variable scopes mounted over the action (just now it is a Leupold VXIII 1.75-6X32). This is a mo' bettah general purpose hunting configuration. I got an email from a hunter in Australia th is week. He has a .376 Steyr Scout that he tried for sambar stag in dark and gloomy forest. He reported he found what I wrote about in my SC review. I get at least one of these reports from other hunters each year, each one agreeing with my findings.

The main virtue of the scout is in the short & handy carbine format combined with a relatively powerful cartridge. .308 Win works great. The bipod and the forward-mount scope don't work well in practice.

jim

I've put together 4; 2 ea. 8x57s and 2 ea. 7x57s. It is difficult for me to use open sights accurately so the scope up front really fills a gap. I am just starting converting a MAS in 7.5X55 into one.

It gives you added field vision that you do not have with a conventionally mounted scope and makes for a quick, off hand hunting rifle. It is great for moving targets. Hot Core may put a different spin on it for You. roger

I have a "scout rifle", it's an M38 Swede (6.5x55 of course)
with a now discontinued B-square mount and a 4x Simmons Pistol scope.

I had some consistancy issues with this setup until I drilled and tapped (the soft soldered to the barrel) sight base
through the side ears and installed 4-40 set screws
to bear on the scope base and prevent it from moving.

My other issue with this setup was that apparrently the adjustment turret assembly in the Simmons scope were installed backwards... this was confusing at first, for obvious reasons....

I also have a scout mounted Aimpoint on a Remington 870Magnum with a NON-cantilever Hastings scope mount barrel, that combo is sighted with an Aimpoint2000
this setup is nearly the ultimate setup for FAST, CLOSE
target engagement with Sabot slugs.

AllanD

The only "scout" setup I don't really hate is the Steyr-Mannlicher version. I have built a couple on standard Mauser rifles, and found the mid-way mounted scope to be clumsy and not as fast as a regular scope mounted the old-fashoin way.

I think the M700 would work out ok but as advised be careful of the mounting of the base. The Marlin ‘95s with the AO mounts work out pretty good. I also like the Burris base on a M94 Winchester. For a bolt gun I am partial to Mauser actions with standard cartridges because of their reliability and ease of reloading with a stripper clip. I like barrels 20-24†in length and like permanently mounted back up iron sights. Balance of the rifle is more important than a lb or so of weight.

I've read HunterJim's review along with numerous others including Jeff Cooper's. I agree with some points and disagree with others. I like the scout concept and find it useful for a wide range of applications but i do not find it the “end all†that Cooper suggests it is. From the get go (late '70s or early '80s?) I disagreed with the "committee's" restrictions on caliber, weight and OAL length and barrel length. I also have not cared for the integral bipod.

Over the years I have used a Steyr scout, a Savage scout and several other rifles configured to a general scout configurations. I have also hunted with them over a wide range of scenarios. I also just returned from a year in Iraq where I had an EOHtech mounted low in front of the handle of my M16A2 ala scout style. It was a very useful sight. I have used bolt actions, lever actions and semi autos (M16 and M1As) in scout configuration. Calibers range from the .38 super through the 30-06 and included the .223, the 6.5x55, the 30-30, the 308/7.62, the 7.65x53, the 8mm and the 45-70.

I also have handled numerous other suedo scouts most of which have the scope mounted way to high with the use of commercial mounts for military sight bases. These are not very functional and draw a lot of criticism to the scout concept. If a scout scope is used it must be mounted as low as possible with the ocular lens over the front receiver ring, not mounted way high and out over the middle of the barrel as is often seen. Unfortunately we many times see the scout concept criticized instead of the poor execution of the scout concept with such rifles.

I also agree with Cooper that the scout rifle does not need to be scoped. They are very functional with a good aperture rear sight. The smaller carbine bolt actions and lever guns fit the bill here including the Marlin '95s and guide guns. HunterJim (in his SC review) is correct in his assessment that the trophy hunter is better served with a traditional scope of more power. I do not believe the humongous crew served scopes that are the rage these days are needed. I however have not had anymore problems with "yellow light" from a low hanging Sun in a scout scope than I have in a traditional over the action scope. I have hunted in some pretty dense and dark forests and have not had any problems with target acquisition using a scout scope vs traditional scope in low light dense vegetation conditions mentioned. He also criticizes the lesser field of view of the scout scope for running game. However, if the scout scope is used correctly with both eyes open the field of view is limited only by your own eyes, not that of the scope. Used correctly, field of view is a non issue.

For a big game trophy hunter the scout may not serve the best. However to a big game hunter it will do nicely for 90% or so of their big game hunting. Do I need define the distinction between the two? I really like the scout concept and currently have 5 rifles configured as scouts. I do however, use them within their limitations and find them entirely satisfactory.

Larry Gibson

quote:

Originally posted by Larry Gibson:
*****I do however, use them within their limitations and find them entirely satisfactory.

Larry Gibson

Nicely put Larry. roger

[QUOTE]Originally posted by El Deguello:
The only "scout" setup I don't really hate is the Steyr-Mannlicher version.

How can anyone HATE a rifle? roger

quote:

Originally posted by bartsche:
... Hot Core may put a different spin on it for You. roger

Yes, he might do just that.

As long as it remains in Civilian hands and not "forced" on the Military, I'm all for it. (Roger made me change my mind.)

Way too many problems created by the Design for the way " I " use a rifle, but Roger has explained to me how they work well for his needs, and I'm glad they are available for him, and the rest of you.

I put a 2x B & L pistol scope in an Ashley "Scout Mount" on my Marlin 45/70 Guide Gun and absolutely love it.
Short handy Carbine, very powerful cartridge for hunting up close and personal.
Your results may differ....
Cheers,
Don

I had a Marlin 444 guide gun that I put the XS scout mount on. I had a Tasco Pro Point 3 that I mountedon it. I thought I had found the "perfect" close quarter deer gun. Out to 75 yds., it was like shooting a shotgun. Point and squeeze the trigger. Plenty accurate for deer hunting. Now for tthe reality check! I was on my stand opening morning and out walked a nice buck on a food plot. I'm ready to break this rifle in . I look through the red scope and I can't see a thing. If I turn up the rheostat where I can see the dot, I can't see through the scope because dot washes out the picture. Needless to say, I had to let the deer walk. Until good daylight, I couldn't see through the scope. I never did get a scout scope for it. I sold it off. It did handle like a dream though. I think it would have been a good rifle with a scout scope or pistol scope. I may have to get me a 45/70 guide gun and set it up with a scout scope.

Here's mine.. only hunt whitetail with it. the Bushnell works well. (2.5x6) The rear sight installation meant that I didn't have to drill into the barrel.

http://home.pipeline.com/~shootzg/custom/m96.html

If you decide not to use it I would be interisted in buying it. I have two scout rilfes one without a scope rt now.

I tried twice. One was on a lever action Winchester in 7-30 Waters. Did not like it at all. A few years later I thought it would be fine on my Marlin Guide Gun. Nope. I found that in dim light, the distance to the ocular lens was too great to pick up what little light was left. On one elk hunt I had my Marlin scout set up, my partner had his Marlin with a regular 4x. The difference was so apparent, I dumped the scout system. Worth a try, perhaps, but did not work for me.

In certain situations is want you need ,close dangerous work,it permits to shoot fast with both eyes open ,this is very important in a combat or dangerous hunting situation and i have been in both .The mayor drawback is that is useful with low ligth .Juan

I've tried it on a couple of rifles, and while scout scopes do work, I could find no advantages over a conventonal low power scope. But then again I shoot with both eyes open.

quote:

Originally posted by br6ppc1:
I had a Marlin 444 guide gun that I put the XS scout mount on. I had a Tasco Pro Point 3 that I mountedon it. I thought I had found the "perfect" close quarter deer gun. Out to 75 yds., it was like shooting a shotgun. Point and squeeze the trigger. Plenty accurate for deer hunting. Now for tthe reality check! I was on my stand opening morning and out walked a nice buck on a food plot. I'm ready to break this rifle in . I look through the red scope and I can't see a thing. If I turn up the rheostat where I can see the dot, I can't see through the scope because dot washes out the picture. Needless to say, I had to let the deer walk. Until good daylight, I couldn't see through the scope. I never did get a scout scope for it. I sold it off. It did handle like a dream though. I think it would have been a good rifle with a scout scope or pistol scope. I may have to get me a 45/70 guide gun and set it up with a scout scope.

Typical, buy a cheap Tasco red-dot sight, have it fog then blame the failure on the concept
instead of on the cheap scope used.

FWIW I have a much more expensive aimpoint and
I actually shot a deer with it without remembering to remove the front scope cover

See the red dot with the right eye see the target with the left, move the weapon to put the dot where you want the hole and squeeze the trigger... BOOM..... Lost sight of the deer during recoil recovery, walked over to look for a sign that I hit it and found a dead deer instead... with a 50cal hole through it's spine. I forgot to hold under to compensate for it being close... Oops...

I loaned it to my brother and he got his deer the next day, the guys he was hunting with looked at that remington like it was a martian raygun... they'd never seen a shotgun with a scope let alone a rifled barrel.


AllanD

I'm a big fan of the scout setup. I have both a marlin guide gun with 2.5 scout and a p17 enfield in 9.3x62 with the leupold 2.5x. I have found them to be extremely practicle in most big game hunting situations. Don't discredity thier range either because I shot my moose this year at 280yards with the 9.3 scout.

quote:

Originally posted by Thebear_78:
I'm a big fan of the scout setup. I have both a marlin guide gun with 2.5 scout and a p17 enfield in 9.3x62 with the leupold 2.5x.

I like your M1917 Scout in 9.3x2! I've often wondered why people haven't used the military M1917 action with the protected rear aperture sight more often for bigger bore rifles that could be used as a dangerous game gun. Leaving the rear sight assembly in place and wanting a scope pretty much pushes you in the direction of a Scout scope. What stock is that, by the way?

I use a marlin guide gun for hunting aligators and capibaras and water buffalos but i prefer to use open sigths i killed buffalos at very short distance with it.Ilike your two rifles the p17 herbert mcbrides rifle and the marlin guide gun with the flasligth would be very useful here for killing injured pumas at nigth a task very frequent done ,ill post photos of my pumas shortly .Juan

We have to recognize that the scout concepts works and inj combat now we can see that most of the troops mount sopes in their m4s in the scout model so it revolutionated the camp of combat as most of the innovations that the genius of JEFF COOPER made .It has some detractors like Ross Seyfried ,but i believe its faster than a scope mounted in convetional mode ,and the only trobles are few ligth and long distance work ,Herbert MCBRIDE has more experience than any of us and he liked a lot this sistem .JUAN

I have 3 scouts and all of them now have low powered variables mounted conventionally.
The advantages of a true scout scope are that it lets you load with stripper clips, vertically ejecting shells don't bounce off it, and it won't give you a new red eyebrow. The Steyr Scouts can't be loaded with strippers and eject sideways so I don't particularly see the point although the 376 Steyr will redecorate a stock crawlers face.
The advantages of a low-powered Variable are that it is superior optically to a scout style scope and still can be used with both eyes open. Get a good reticle like a German #4 and you'll not want to go back to a scout scope unless you like strippers................DJ

Typical, buy a cheap Tasco red-dot sight, have it fog then blame the failure on the concept
instead of on the cheap scope used.

Allan,
The Propoint didn't fog up. The brightness of the reddot washed out the picture. If I turned the rheostat up enough to see the dot, no picture. And the deer was approximately 50 yds away. I wasn't going to guess on my aiming point. Our legal hunting time begins 30 mins. before sunrise. I have killed numerous deer and had them in my truck by the time the sun rose. I guess a 50mm reddot might gather enough light to be useful in this situation. And the reason I used the Tasco Propoint, I already had it on hand before I bought the rifle.

Has anyone used the Ruger frontier rifle? I have seen some at local gunshop and I must say I like the rifle.

I bought one of the 'Jeff Cooper" packages, with the 2.5X leupold ier scope. Worked fine during daylight, execpt early morning or late evening, with the light behind the shooter. Lots of glare off the occular lens. Switched to an Trijicon Reflex sight (6.5moa dot), problem solved. However, most of my shots are 150M or less, so this combination may not work for you if you need longer range, or more precise shot placement. For me, it works just fine.
JMHO

My Marlin 95 is set up with a scout scope. I wouldn't mind a couple strippers about now, DJ..... . I must have a scout set up in a bolt gun for rough use. I "need" it you know? Packrattusnongratus

I sold off my .308 Steyr Scout 'cause it and me did not gel, BUT, one of our 2004 Safari buds used a Steyr Scout in .376 Steyr om just about everything, over ten head, including a Buff, and the Buff was the only critter that required more than one shot. Based upon Greg's performance the Scout works, especially considering that he was a neophyte hunter, but Lordy, that Scout and him worked like clock work!!
LLS
Mannlicher Collector

Tom: I have had a couple of scout rifles. Loved the guns, but the problems with glare on the ocular lenses was an issue for me also. Some guys love them, others do not. Best to try it out for yourself and see how it works for you.

I now shoot a bunch of Blaser R93's and use lower powered scopes on all of them. I have ordered an EAW mount for the Doctor Optic, it will go on my 400H&H Blaser barrel when it arrives. Should be a great, close in combo for a future African Buffalo hunt.